Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #37

[tmar]

Thank you so much as always Layla! Fantastic summary!

The 6-10 month affair speculation puts a lot of pieces together for me personally. The affair, the pregnancy on both parts, the trip, the effusive SM posts when they were struggling. IMO she was still all in, and he was playing both sides checking out more & more as the affair became more serious. He had a few weeks of freedom and the ending was solidified in his mind, and divorce and custody is messy and people might criticize or not understand him (like now, maybe that's a "poor me" theme of his?).

Also the info about the leather couch and the phone probably being placed there vs being able to easily slip between the cushions is telling.

Finally I'm glad that they clarified that technology allegedly led them to the oil site before he confessed, and he had to be shown the drone pics with the burial site before coming up with his half confession.

He was truly confessing to nothing before he was cornered. Not the affair, not the burials, not the murders. This helps to confirm IMO that he killed the girls and is being consistent with only telling what little he's forced to admit.

I wish to add, to the comment about the affair, the double life led by CW: at least 2 women, he is having a relationship with SW and AP.
Could there be others, as CW is know to be a liar?
CW's actions have similarities with the accused in Laura Wallen's murder:
Laura was murdered as pregnant, the murdered woman loved the accused, another ongoing relationship was occurring for the accused (several were later discovered), murdered body disposed near the accused work site, telling fibs to Police about other relationship, changing stories, being a liar.

The accused in Laura's case was identified as a Psychopath.
The accused, committed suicide, in a 15 mins gap during Jail observations, a few days before trial.
There are many similarities in these 2 cases.
Will CW have a similar diagnosis?

 

[MollyDDD]

Interestingly, when I was on a local high profile case, our instructions for deliberation were that we could not bring in our judgment from our own experiences. We were to look at the information presented only. It was very difficult, to say the least. And we jurors had numerous verbal altercations about it and the judge reiterated her instructions. We were to decide based on the tiny bubble of information, not our life wisdom! So if this goes to trial, the jurors will have a difficult task. It seems easy to sit on a jury, but once chosen, many restraints come into play. MEO (my experience only), MOO.

I feel CW has accidentally been brilliant in introducing the SW strangling claim. It's disgusting, as I see it, a Jodi Arias move. But it will be a strong bargaining chip for a plea deal. JMO, of course. My fear is a plea that is not first degree murder. MOO.

“accidentally been brilliant”....love that!

 

[Hazelnutty]

It depends on SW's cause of death.

Don't you believe CW's confession? That he strangled SW in a fit of rage?

 

[Layla123]

Why are you trying so hard?

It came out a few threads ago that many of us absolutely adore Shanann Watts, even though we never met her, and when we hear someone knock her down, we feel compelled to defend her. Can’t help it.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Exactly! It's like the old joke about the hitchhiker asking the driver why they picked them up when they could be a serial killer. They driver responds, "What are the odds of 2 serial killers being in this car at once?"

Post of the day!

 

[cailleach]

cailleach said: ↑
I have an off-the-wall theory here that the time with her family strengthened her to do what she needed to do, which is why she told NUA that she was going to need her more than ever. I think possibly she told him the marriage was over and he went off in a rage. He had talked her into a third pregnancy even while having an affair because he believed that would make it impossible for her to leave him no matter what he did. When he found out that she was no longer going to worship at that empty shell of an alter, he lost it. I don't necessarily believe this is exactly what transpired but it's a possibility.


I think this is possible cailleach. SW came across as a very capable and independent woman. It would upset and sadden her that the marriage didn't work out but she didn't strike me as a quitter. IMO she keep moving forward with life , looking at the positives. So cailleach, maybe not so off the wall. After all CW told many lies and reverse statements . "I have no inclination as to where she is, He saw SW actively strangling, he asked for a separation ".
Maybe it was SW who asked for the separation . IMO she heard more rumours when away or he wasn't answering messages or face timing with her. Maybe CW completely turns everything around.

Not completely out of the realm of possibhility, @Pseudonym, considering some experts have stated that his whole thing about seeing the child spread out "blue" on the bed while the other was being strangled and other details were because he, himself, was the one who did these things.

 

[tmar]

Thank you so much as always Layla! Fantastic summary!

The 6-10 month affair speculation puts a lot of pieces together for me personally. The affair, the pregnancy on both parts, the trip, the effusive SM posts when they were struggling. IMO she was still all in, and he was playing both sides checking out more & more as the affair became more serious. He had a few weeks of freedom and the ending was solidified in his mind, and divorce and custody is messy and people might criticize or not understand him (like now, maybe that's a "poor me" theme of his?).

Also the info about the leather couch and the phone probably being placed there vs being able to easily slip between the cushions is telling.

Finally I'm glad that they clarified that technology allegedly led them to the oil site before he confessed, and he had to be shown the drone pics with the burial site before coming up with his half confession.

He was truly confessing to nothing before he was cornered. Not the affair, not the burials, not the murders. This helps to confirm IMO that he killed the girls and is being consistent with only telling what little he's forced to admit.

I agree Finch, with your wonderful last line.
CW will be forced, down the track, to admit loads more, as evidence is presented. MOO.

 

[Moonracer]

“accidentally been brilliant”....love that!

Thank you, MollyDDD, for understanding my jab at CW. Some are thinking I meant he's actually brilliant. I differ from his former teacher's favorable assessment of him, based on the videos I've watched and most of all on his terrible, horrible choices. IMO, MOO

 

[JDough]

It depends on SW's cause of death.

Why would CW admit to strangling her if he thought he could blame it on another reason (that did not make him guilty of murder)?

 

[MollyDDD]

I have a very similar theory about that night. I think she had spent that 5 weeks in NC, trying to figure out if she thought she could reestablish herself back there, if they separated. I don't think she wanted to divorce, but it was becoming obvious to her that he had checked out of the marriage already.

So she got some new business contacts going, talked to a few close friends/family about possibly returning back to the area with the children and for the upcoming birth...and got used to the idea of possibly becoming a single mom.

Her husband came to visit for the week, and she noticed that he was distant and disconnected from the kids. So she knew it was inevitable that they would be parting ways...

On her 2 day business trip, she told her best friend that she was going to need a lot of help and support soon, and she decided she'd start making the necessary changes when she returned home.

At some point, that fateful night, they had their 'emotional conversation'...AND SHE SEALED HER FATE THAT NIGHT---She told him that she was taking the girls in the morning, and going to a friend's , while he figured it out. And in the meantime, she was taking the girls back to her parents, to get the help and support she needed.

That was a big problem for him. He couldn't let her leave like that. It would totally ruin his future plans. He had it all figured out that he was going to make them 'vanish' one night and then he could come home from work and say 'where is my family?'

But suddenly she was threatening to move out the next day and he wasn't ready...so he had to just go for it...

Spot on! Bravo!

 

[Johnny1181]

Why are you trying so hard?

Trying so hard to what?

 

[Colorado303]

I don’t understand. How will SW’s COD affect her motivation for strangling her children?

Because there are some people who are so convinced she killed her children that even if LE can prove they died before she did, she somehow killed them. Time machine and all.

 

[Pseudonym]

Not completely out of the realm of possibhility, @Pseudonym, considering some experts have stated that his whole thing about seeing the child spread out "blue" on the bed while the other was being strangled and other details were because he, himself, was the one who did these things.

That's exactly what I was trying to say ! Certainly gives food for thought.

 

[cailleach]

It came out a few threads ago that many of us absolutely adore Shanann Watts, even though we never met her, and when we hear someone knock her down, we feel compelled to defend her. Can’t help it.

I'll be honest, I don't even have to love her to see that all of the available evidence at this time shows she and the girls were his victims. I also happen to detest victim-blaming and shaming in general, particularly when it's based on speculation from people who didn't know her in the least. Was she my favorite type of person? Not really, but that absolutely doesn't mean she and those girls don't deserve justice.

 

[tmar]

This is what I was mentioning earlier that I am afraid of—him getting away with a 4 to 24 year sentence.

Yuk, how miserable.
Surely this would be appealed, as OP's case.

 

[MassGuy]

This whole idea that one lie is equal to another, is incredibly flawed logic.

It is the context of the lies that is most important in determining their value.

A lie about health, wealth, and happiness, is not the same as a lie about murder and body desecration.

The standard that one lie is as bad as another, is being compounded with further flawed logic, that a person who lies, is no longer a victim.

Everything that we know to be true, cannot be upended by the idea that not being truthful, changes the facts, and has a bearing on reality. It doesn’t.

We all tell lies every single day. If that is the bar with how we determine who is a murderer and who is a victim, then we are left with an unmitigated mess. There is no truth, and everything is subjective. It isn’t.

We have known facts here, and known lies. Damning ones.

 

[gitana1]

I've used it before when bringing a quote over from a closed thread. I use the normal quote feature on open threads.

Yeah. I just don't think it's common or something someone learns their first day here.

In other news, it will be interesting to see whether we get a defense response tomorrow to the motion to seal. And if so, what happens next?

The court seems inclined to allow it to be published.

 

[Johnny1181]

Because there are some people who are so convinced she killed her children that even if LE can prove they died before she did, she somehow killed them. Time machine and all.

Still rocking it.... welcome back.

 

[Steelhead]

Trying so hard to what?

Why are you trying so hard to get answers you know you’re not going to get?

 

[MollyDDD]

Post of the day!