GUILTY - Tammy Moorer trial for Kidnapping Heather Elvis, 8 Oct 2018 #5

[QPRfan]

I can't imagine that SM would be stupid enough to show a third party any evidence of Heather's capture, or any harm that came to her, but neither does this witness seem to be lying. The only thing he gets out of this is having his history displayed and used to diminish him and his testimony, and TM's revenge. What would be the point?

If he did see a picture and Heather couldn't walk or talk, I realize he's likely referring to her being deceased, but could this also mean she was bound/otherwise restrained?

If this picture testimony is true, it's clear why SM did not roll on TM. And never will.

I don’t think the picture (if it existed) simply showed HE restrained. The way he described it, and the way it apparently shook him, suggests it was a picture of her deceased. But how could he tell she was dead, and not simply unconscious? The limited way he was allowed to describe the picture suggests it showed some evidence that made it clear she was dead. I agree with many earlier posts that the most likely ways she would’ve been murdered would be suffocation or strangulation. Suffocation wouldn’t probably show enough such evidence on a single image, but strangulation likely would. Absolutely vile and evil people the Moorers.

 

[Justice-seeker]

A few people were discussing the mention of Tammy performing a Google search for the date of the next full moon and/or were discussing what the moon may have looked like that night. As luck would have it, I took a photo of the moon on my way home from work that very same evening because it WAS so big and bright that it immediately made me take notice. I was headed north on 17 bypass in front of Coastal Grand Mall when I snapped this photo.

According to 2013 Moon Phases - Calendar-12.com
The full moon was on 12/17/2013 around 4:29 am.

 

[New2MB]

I can't imagine that SM would be stupid enough to show a third party any evidence of Heather's capture, or any harm that came to her, but neither does this witness seem to be lying. The only thing he gets out of this is having his history displayed and used to diminish him and his testimony, and TM's revenge. What would be the point?

If he did see a picture and Heather couldn't walk or talk, I realize he's likely referring to her being deceased, but could this also mean she was bound/otherwise restrained?

If this picture testimony is true, it's clear why SM did not roll on TM. And never will.

I think it’s weird too, but could it simply have been that S was showing him a different picture, and as he was pulling it up, that awful picture showed up, causing D to ask what the heck it was?

 

[Justice-seeker]

I don’t like writing it but I feel as though if TM did it she would have done it in a fit of rage. I really don’t want to say it but I think she would have shot her in the face. She was obviously jealous of Heathers youth and beauty.
If SM did it he wouldn’t have been able to look her in the face most likely he would have done it from behind. Just my opinion. It’s awful and I pray for Heather and her family.
I’m not sure if I believe the cousin. Would be great to see what a behavioral analyst would have to say about his testimony. I was only able to watch the beginning of his testimony. (Listened it the rest while driving) He looks up and to the left a lot when answering questions. I do believe that is a sign of deceit but I’m not a specialist by any means...

 

[whisperOFwings]

Hope there is coffee in the house, as you will need it.
But I have the other problem.
I have the food here, but cannot prepare it, as will be too busy concentrating here.
Guess biscuits, cheese and coffee will be enough.

Throw something in a Crock Pot! Then you don't have to worry about it until it smells yummy! Biscuits are yummy though.

 

[New2MB]

I don’t think the picture (if it existed) simply showed HE restrained. The way he described it, and the way it apparently shook him, suggests it was a picture of her deceased. But how could he tell she was dead, and not simply unconscious? The limited way he was allowed to describe the picture suggests it showed some evidence that made it clear she was dead. I agree with many earlier posts that the most likely ways she would’ve been murdered would be suffocation or strangulation. Suffocation wouldn’t probably show enough such evidence on a single image, but strangulation likely would. Absolutely vile and evil people the Moorers.

I keep wondering if maybe it was a picture of her in the dumpster at Longbeards.

 

[Harmony 2]

Tammy Moorer’s trial continues, she said she will testify

Tammy Moorer to take the stand in her own defense in kidnapping trial

 

[stillwatersc]

From the previous thread:
My thinking on this is that SM was dying to tell somebody. Anybody. He probably saw Donald as a bit of a tough guy who might even be impressed with what he did to Heather. Like it might even up his "cred." I don't think he ever considered "someone like Donald" would rat him out.

Agree. I think SM wasn't in his right mind at the time. They were probably doing more than smoking cigarettes.

 

[bestill]

Agree. I think SM wasn't in his right mind at the time. They were probably doing more than smoking cigarettes.

Good point, feeling pumped from freedom, drink and probably weed after months of being in a cell and clean.

 

[Madeleine74]

As for why SM disclosed this and showed DD the picture of HE on the flip phone I imagine there was alcohol imbibed and possibly more than that. Defenses were down as an intoxicated state will do that and SM obviously never thought this would ever get out.

To my mind it's a picture that DD understood to be H.E. dead, as in being able to testify that no, she would not be contacting anybody again. At first I thought it might have been H.E. tied up and gagged, but it's clear DD knew she was deceased in that picture, but without being able to say so.

 

[jillycat]

I don’t think the picture (if it existed) simply showed HE restrained. The way he described it, and the way it apparently shook him, suggests it was a picture of her deceased. But how could he tell she was dead, and not simply unconscious? The limited way he was allowed to describe the picture suggests it showed some evidence that made it clear she was dead. I agree with many earlier posts that the most likely ways she would’ve been murdered would be suffocation or strangulation. Suffocation wouldn’t probably show enough such evidence on a single image, but strangulation likely would. Absolutely vile and evil people the Moorers.

Yes, his remark that he didn't believe she would be seen again indicates she was deceased. But I wonder if she was also restrained because I don't see SM on a mission to simply kill her quickly for TM, then send a picture for proof. I'm sure there any number of scenarios that would indicate she wasn't alive.

No idea how she was killed or who was present, or who was involved in hiding her. But I also don't see TM sitting at home clipping coupons or filing her nails while all this went on.

 

[jash]

Agree. I think SM wasn't in his right mind at the time. They were probably doing more than smoking cigarettes.

IIRC, on cross-examination, the defense brought up beer. Donald insisted it was only cigarettes but McCollum was incredulous (almost as if he knows exactly how it all went down).

 

[Surfside]

I don't think "obviously deceased" and "bound and gagged" are mutually exclusive. Nancy asked questions that made me think both scenarios were true. She asked if it looked like Heather could talk. The answer was "no" (gagged). She asked if it looked like Heather could walk. The answer was "no" (bound). She asked if anybody would be hearing from Heather again. The answer was "no" (deceased). I realize there are different things that could be meant by those questions/answers, but I doubt she wanted to be cryptic if she was trying to sway the jury. That's JMO, though.

[Nancy's questions, above, are obviously paraphrased.]

 

[Valkyrii]

I think Tammy would want to be there at the end so she could rub it in Heather's face that she (TM) "won". I also think her need to control everything would dictate that she see for herself that Heather was gone and that Sidney wouldn't mess that up like he messed up their perfect marriage. Or change his mind. If he's alone with Heather, that leaves too much room for Heather to successfully plead for her life to Sidney.

I can see her leaving Sidney to dispose of the body and clean up any evidence, because that would lesson the risk to TM herself.

 

[stillwatersc]

Heather Elvis' family speaks out: 'We are never going to give up hope'

 

[jillycat]

I don't think "obviously deceased" and "bound and gagged" are mutually exclusive. Nancy asked questions that made me think both scenarios were true. She asked if it looked like Heather could talk. The answer was "no" (gagged). She asked if it looked like Heather could walk. The answer was "no" (bound). She asked if anybody would be hearing from Heather again. The answer was "no" (deceased). I realize there are different things that could be meant by those questions/answers, but I doubt she wanted to be cryptic if she was trying to sway the jury. That's JMO, though.

[Nancy's questions, above, are obviously paraphrased.]

Exactly.

 

[BAH]

W O W... just caught up reading everything. missed all of today due to having to take mom to ER. I am speechless. Not sue how much I will be able to watch tomorrow, but I will pop in here when I can. Thank to everyone that provided comments. Heather... you are not forgotten.

 

[Richmond]

In thinking about the truthfulness of DD re: the photo and its effect on him: would it be telling if he really did leave the Moorer's event right after seeing that picture? And if he did cut off contact with S and T after that? And didn't he say something about his mother being estranged from Tammy's family after she knew about the photo (even though he told her it wasn't true)? It does seem that DD may have difficulty keeping the facts straight. He said he didn't tell anyone about the photo, but later when confronted by the defense, he said he HAD talked earlier to his mother about the photo (before talking to Ginger in prosecutor's office).

Maybe I need to watch his testimony again. I seem to be having trouble keeping the facts straight myself, haha.

 

[Hatfield]

Good point, feeling pumped from freedom, drink and probably weed after months of being in a cell and clean.

JMO
Right and at the time he looked at the cousin like a fellow inmate since I think I heard the cousin testify he just got out of jail too recently when he was at SMs house if I heard him right. So SM considered him a fellow jail mate who usually never will narc on each other. So SM would have trusted him to hold a secret.

And that also explains why the cousin did hold it a secret until he got in trouble again and was back behind bars where he probably felt by telling the secret he may get off with a lighter deal.

But it did look bad what the defense showed the jury and there is no doubt about that. So I hope NL in her closing tells the jury that even if they want to not believe his testimony there is plenty of other evidence that was shown to them that shows that TM is guilty of the kidnapping charges.

She can remind them that murder charges are not even on the table and that may help them decide in the states favor.

 

[Hatfield]

W O W... just caught up reading everything. missed all of today due to having to take mom to ER. I am speechless. Not sue how much I will be able to watch tomorrow, but I will pop in here when I can. Thank to everyone that provided comments. Heather... you are not forgotten.

Glad you were able to check in. Hope your Mom is ok.