NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[1&2&3]

I can’t read this article. Losing one child is unimaginable to me, let alone four!

My heart breaks just thinking about the nightmare these parents and siblings are going through.

 

[Mica]

I want so much to read this, but I know it will break my heart. I just can't bear to hear the pain.

It’s a tearjerker for sure. The lives of so many were changed and destroyed forever. All over four irresponsible individuals (owner, 2 sons, and driver) who broke laws to make a buck and have no respect for life. It infuriates me.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It’s a tearjerker for sure. The lives of so many were changed and destroyed forever. All over four irresponsible individuals (owner, 2 sons, and driver) who broke laws to make a buck and have no respect for life. It infuriates me.

From what I'm reading, it appears that there may be more than just four irresponsible people involved.

 

[Mica]

From what I'm reading, it appears that there may be more than just four irresponsible people involved.

If the DOT and DMV didn’t do their jobs, add them to the list. I just fear anybody connected to the “informant” gets a free pass. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[bears10]

If the DOT and DMV didn’t do their jobs, add them to the list. I just fear anybody connected to the “informant” gets a free pass. I hope I’m wrong.

I am expecting the state to put the blame on the inspection contractor.

 

[Only4Justice]

I want so much to read this, but I know it will break my heart. I just can't bear to hear the pain.

Trident, don’t read it. I tried and started crying. Couldn’t finish. Those poor parents.

 

[Only4Justice]

Does anyone know where to send cards, etc. to the family? Please share if you do. I cannot stop thinking of the parents. Thanks

 

[alibrarian]

Does anyone know where to send cards, etc. to the family? Please share if you do. I cannot stop thinking of the parents. Thanks

I recall reading (but can't remember which article) that said the church holding the ceremonies was accepting cards and letters.

St Stanislaus Church
50-52 Cornell St.
Amsterdam, NY 12010

Maybe via c/o the church to Tom and Linda King?

 

[alibrarian]

APNewsBreak: NTSB hasn't fully examined limo in fatal crash

APNewsBreak: NTSB hasn’t fully examined limo in fatal crash

"Federal safety investigators have been unable to conduct a full examination of the limousine involved in a crash that killed 20 people nearly two weeks ago in upstate New York because local prosecutors are probing it as part of their case against the limo company’s operator."

Maybe this is why there hasn't been much information yet?

 

[LLLindsayy]

The vehicle is generally an older one, so property tax is not that much. To outsiders, in NC we pay personal property tax when we renew our car license yearly.

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

FWIW, and I'm not sure it contributes to the argument here at all, but we do not pay property tax on our vehicles here in NY.

I saw this earlier but was about to leave work so couldn’t post. This is soooo shady. Don’t get me wrong - there are many places that will give you fake inspection stickers for a cost. But for this to have gone so far in terms of “slipping thru the dmv cracks”. Yeah right. Either the DMV was never given record of the fake inspections and the state is trying to cover themselves for having shady inspection contractors, or the DMV knew and allowed this to conveniently slip thru the cracks. JMO

It was reported that the father used to work for the DMV and used to "help" people pass their exams to get licensed illegally. IMO, he probably still has connections there which could help with this sticker situation.

Hi everyone. I've spent the last 5 nights after work reading every post on this thread. I'm a long-time member here on Websleuths and have never really ventured out of the missing people forums, but when I heard about this case I knew this was where to come.

Let me start by saying that this horrible accident is fairly local for me. I'm in Albany, not far from the Schenectady county line and Schohaire is just over a half an hour from me. I've been through the intersection near the Apple Barrel a handful of times just exploring the area. This hill never stood out to me prior to this incident, but I've always been up/down it in a much small vehicle such as a sedan or a small SUV.

Anyways, as we do every year we picked a weekend to go leaf peeping and that weekend happened to be last weekend. We chose Schoharie this year for multiple reasons and our travels did take a past the Apple Barrel. We stopped into the store to look around (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and found a lot of really cute items. But it was eerily quiet. Almost so quiet that it was strange to speak. You could just tell that something had happened. After we were done shopping, we exited the Apple Barrell on the side of the accident. There were two representatives from the Red Cross standing next to the large wooden memorial with crosses on it. That side of the parking lot was blocked off by orange cones and yellow tape. There were also plenty of signs up the said "NO MEDIA." We approached the site quietly and somberly to pay our respects. It was very touching to see all of the flowers and the items left behind. Another couple came shortly after us so we left. The Red Cross members did not say anything to us, they just smiled and nodded. I think they were there for support in case anyone who was personally affected by the accident came to the scene.

Even though I did not know anyone in the limo, I do have mutual friends with a few of the individuals which I learned through Facebook. With so many souls, their connections spread far and wide throughout the Capital Region. It seems like everyone I talk to "knows someone who knows X." And we are in the same age group. I will be celebrating my 30th birthday in May of next year. These were my peers and were virtually from the same area as me and for that reason I do feel particularly touched by the incident.

All of that said, I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. I do have more thoughts but I can't think of everything at once. As I was reading this thread I saw a lot of posts that I would have responded to but I wanted to get to the end to see if anyone else did. Now I forget what they were.

 

[Tripod]

APNewsBreak: NTSB hasn't fully examined limo in fatal crash

APNewsBreak: NTSB hasn’t fully examined limo in fatal crash

"Federal safety investigators have been unable to conduct a full examination of the limousine involved in a crash that killed 20 people nearly two weeks ago in upstate New York because local prosecutors are probing it as part of their case against the limo company’s operator."

Maybe this is why there hasn't been much information yet?

The NTSB did say a couple days or so ago that there would be a delay for their prelim report, so I imagine this is why. I am sure local, state police and the NTSB are working together when possible- they certainly should be.

 

[Tripod]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

FWIW, and I'm not sure it contributes to the argument here at all, but we do not pay property tax on our vehicles here in NY.



It was reported that the father used to work for the DMV and used to "help" people pass their exams to get licensed illegally. IMO, he probably still has connections there which could help with this sticker situation.

Hi everyone. I've spent the last 5 nights after work reading every post on this thread. I'm a long-time member here on Websleuths and have never really ventured out of the missing people forums, but when I heard about this case I knew this was where to come.

Let me start by saying that this horrible accident is fairly local for me. I'm in Albany, not far from the Schenectady county line and Schohaire is just over a half an hour from me. I've been through the intersection near the Apple Barrel a handful of times just exploring the area. This hill never stood out to me prior to this incident, but I've always been up/down it in a much small vehicle such as a sedan or a small SUV.

Anyways, as we do every year we picked a weekend to go leaf peeping and that weekend happened to be last weekend. We chose Schoharie this year for multiple reasons and our travels did take a past the Apple Barrel. We stopped into the store to look around (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and found a lot of really cute items. But it was eerily quiet. Almost so quiet that it was strange to speak. You could just tell that something had happened. After we were done shopping, we exited the Apple Barrell on the side of the accident. There were two representatives from the Red Cross standing next to the large wooden memorial with crosses on it. That side of the parking lot was blocked off by orange cones and yellow tape. There were also plenty of signs up the said "NO MEDIA." We approached the site quietly and somberly to pay our respects. It was very touching to see all of the flowers and the items left behind. Another couple came shortly after us so we left. The Red Cross members did not say anything to us, they just smiled and nodded. I think they were there for support in case anyone who was personally affected by the accident came to the scene.

Even though I did not know anyone in the limo, I do have mutual friends with a few of the individuals which I learned through Facebook. With so many souls, their connections spread far and wide throughout the Capital Region. It seems like everyone I talk to "knows someone who knows X." And we are in the same age group. I will be celebrating my 30th birthday in May of next year. These were my peers and were virtually from the same area as me and for that reason I do feel particularly touched by the incident.

All of that said, I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. I do have more thoughts but I can't think of everything at once. As I was reading this thread I saw a lot of posts that I would have responded to but I wanted to get to the end to see if anyone else did. Now I forget what they were.

The Apple Barrel serves great lunches and sometimes dinner, as well. They have a lot of gifts and goodies, including clothing, to browse through. I've frequented the place countless times, but in all honesty, cannot yet bring myself to go there or drive by. I think all our hearts remain heavy.

 

[SugarQueen]

All of the underhanded dealings here have this case somewhat circular. Let’s see if I have this straight.
1) Vehicle was registered but not as a bus as it should have been.
2) driver had a license that would allow him to drive a LIMO but not a bus
3) vehicle failed DOT inspections several times, and was stickered
4) at some point vehicle passed inspection at a regular inspection station.

Hopefully I’ve got that all correct.

 

[LLLindsayy]

Autopsy results released:

Autopsy results released in deadly limo crash

 

[alibrarian]

Police identify person found dead in Wilton motel

This is the hotel of the owners of the limo. "The death had been ruled suspicious after the initial investigation."

 

[alibrarian]

Mom of Amanda Halse confirms she was the reported passenger transported via ambulance as surviving crash but succumbing to injuries at hospital.

Mom of Woman Killed in Horrific Limo Crash Alongside Boyfriend Speaks Out: 'There's Nothing Worse'

 

[alibrarian]

All of the underhanded dealings here have this case somewhat circular. Let’s see if I have this straight.
1) Vehicle was registered but not as a bus as it should have been.
2) driver had a license that would allow him to drive a LIMO but not a bus
3) vehicle failed DOT inspections several times, and was stickered
4) at some point vehicle passed inspection at a regular inspection station.

Hopefully I’ve got that all correct.

The vehicle had a fraudulent NYS registration sticker and had failed several inspections. It was not supposed to be driven.
The driver did not have a commercial license (for passengers, he drove trucks)
yes, failed inspections
I have not heard it ever passes a real inspection

RE: the license:

After fatal crashes, calls for crackdown on limo licenses

"Senator Charles Schumer on Thursday said the federal government hasn't done enough to investigate limo safety and called for new measures to prevent future accidents.

Schumer, joined by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, said there is a glaring gap in federal law that allows many stretch limos to skirt a licensing safety law already on the books by exempting their drivers from holding a Commercial Driver's License and/or their vehicles from being classified as commercial."

 

[alibrarian]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

FWIW, and I'm not sure it contributes to the argument here at all, but we do not pay property tax on our vehicles here in NY.



It was reported that the father used to work for the DMV and used to "help" people pass their exams to get licensed illegally. IMO, he probably still has connections there which could help with this sticker situation.

Hi everyone. I've spent the last 5 nights after work reading every post on this thread. I'm a long-time member here on Websleuths and have never really ventured out of the missing people forums, but when I heard about this case I knew this was where to come.

Let me start by saying that this horrible accident is fairly local for me. I'm in Albany, not far from the Schenectady county line and Schohaire is just over a half an hour from me. I've been through the intersection near the Apple Barrel a handful of times just exploring the area. This hill never stood out to me prior to this incident, but I've always been up/down it in a much small vehicle such as a sedan or a small SUV.

Anyways, as we do every year we picked a weekend to go leaf peeping and that weekend happened to be last weekend. We chose Schoharie this year for multiple reasons and our travels did take a past the Apple Barrel. We stopped into the store to look around (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and found a lot of really cute items. But it was eerily quiet. Almost so quiet that it was strange to speak. You could just tell that something had happened. After we were done shopping, we exited the Apple Barrell on the side of the accident. There were two representatives from the Red Cross standing next to the large wooden memorial with crosses on it. That side of the parking lot was blocked off by orange cones and yellow tape. There were also plenty of signs up the said "NO MEDIA." We approached the site quietly and somberly to pay our respects. It was very touching to see all of the flowers and the items left behind. Another couple came shortly after us so we left. The Red Cross members did not say anything to us, they just smiled and nodded. I think they were there for support in case anyone who was personally affected by the accident came to the scene.

Even though I did not know anyone in the limo, I do have mutual friends with a few of the individuals which I learned through Facebook. With so many souls, their connections spread far and wide throughout the Capital Region. It seems like everyone I talk to "knows someone who knows X." And we are in the same age group. I will be celebrating my 30th birthday in May of next year. These were my peers and were virtually from the same area as me and for that reason I do feel particularly touched by the incident.

All of that said, I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. I do have more thoughts but I can't think of everything at once. As I was reading this thread I saw a lot of posts that I would have responded to but I wanted to get to the end to see if anyone else did. Now I forget what they were.

Hello and thank you for reading the thread -- I have only been in the Albany area a few times -- I am concerned about Hussain's lawyer saying the state knew the hill was unsafe. It is a hill - hard to make every road perfectly safe - there is diver responsibility as well.

Earlier there is a link to a video that shows the view of driving down that hill. What is your take on the signage and safety of the road?

 

[LLLindsayy]

This article also discusses the autopsy results, but what’s interesting is the last sentence. It specifies a time when the NTSB report to be released.

Autopsy results released for Schoharie victims; NTSB gets look at limo

 

[LLLindsayy]

Hello and thank you for reading the thread -- I have only been in the Albany area a few times -- I am concerned about Hussain's lawyer saying the state knew the hill was unsafe. It is a hill - hard to make every road perfectly safe - there is diver responsibility as well.

Earlier there is a link to a video that shows the view of driving down that hill. What is your take on the signage and safety of the road?

I actually filmed our trip going down the hill to send to my parents before I knew that a reporter had filmed it as well. I will say that on my previous trips to this area the hill did not stand out to me. Of course I was paying particular attention to it this trip.

One thing that we did was drive out to Amsterdam and take route 30 south to the Apple Barrel so that we could trace the limo's path. Route 30 north of route 7 is a very narrow and windy road...I didn't like it at all. There were some curves that had warning signs to slow down to as little as 15 miles per hour. I was kind of confused as to how a limo would even be able to navigate it at all. But what is clear to me is that the brakes MUST have been working during this stretch of road, making me doubt the text message that says they were coasting for 15 minutes.

Anyhow, once you cross over route 7 there are six no truck signs one after the other. I do think that the speed could stand to be less. We were in a fairly new vehicle, with good brakes, and we rode them the entire length of the road. Even though the speed limit was 55 (and then 50), we hung out comfortable around 40 mph.

I'd say the speed could appropriately be 35-40 on this stretch of route 30, with possibly another sign warning of a stop sign ahead. But to be honest, the intersection itself is not dangerous for a vehicle with an alert driver and functioning brakes. I've been on much steeper roads in our more mountainous areas.