Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

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I've been pondering why LE won't say whether the girls were sexually assaulted. LE always keeps some details secret in order to weed out false confessions, but something that general would normally not be kept secret.
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The most logical explanation I can think of is that maybe one of the girls was sexually assaulted but one of them wasn't. That would be the sort of unique detail known only to the real culprit.
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We know that Libby had a phone with her and that the perp didn't take it. If he didn't take it, maybe that's because he didn't find it. If he didn't find it, maybe that's because he didn't remove Libby's clothing, which would mean that she was not the one who was sexually assaulted.
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My current theory, then, is that Abby was his target and was sexually assaulted, while Libby was collateral damage.
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If that's the case, I would be inclined to take a much closer look at the other cases (mentioned by another poster) where a red-headed victim was raped and murdered, for Abby was a red-head, and red-heads make up only 2—6 % of the US population.

I don’t know what benefit it would be to law enforcement to publicly reveal whether a sexual assault took place it won’t help find BG and would cause the girls families distress. They are deliberately holding information back that only the killer would know until hopefully one day we get to charges being filed and a trial.
 
BBM
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We do NOT know that they have BG's DNA.
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They have only stated that they have DNA. They have not stated that they have the perp's DNA.
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DNA found at the scene could belong to anyone who had contact with the girls, with a random person who threw a cigarette butt on the ground, etc. We do not know any details about the DNA evidence that they have.
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We do not know whether the DNA that they have is mitochondrial or nuclear, and we do not know whether they have a complete profile.
I based my comment on another poster's that stated a family member had said they have BG's DNA. Pardon me.
 
I don’t know what benefit it would be to law enforcement to publicly reveal whether a sexual assault took place it won’t help find BG and would cause the girls families distress. They are deliberately holding information back that only the killer would know until hopefully one day we get to charges being filed and a trial.
It absolutely would help find BG.
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It would be a tremendous benefit in terms of allowing people who might have had contact with BG to connect the dots and identify him. If at least one of the girls was sexually assaulted, then the profile of BG is completely different than it is if there was no sexual assault. Right now we don't know whether to look for a quiet sexual predator of a volatile crack pot who has a tendency to fly off the handle and get into violent confrontations with people.
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I've probably never had contact with BG, and you've probably never had contact with BG, but somebody out there has, and knowing more information about his behavior could help that somebody to realize that he or she knows BG. Even knowing what kind of weapon was used might flip on a light switch in someone's brain and solve the case.
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I already stated that LE often withholds information in order to protect against false confessions. The point is, something as basic as whether the victims were sexually assaulted is not usually withheld. That isn't a "detail;" it's a fundamental aspect of the crime. In fact, I would argue that the public has a right to know whether there is a homicidal sexual predator out there or just a homicidal maniac.
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Sexual predators tend to target victims who fit a certain profile. If BG is a sexual predator, then caucasian teen girls should be especially vigilant. If BG is not a sexual predator, then his next victim could be anybody who sets him off. I don't believe that LE has the right to keep the public in the dark about things like that.
 
BBM
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We do NOT know that they have BG's DNA.
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They have only stated that they have DNA. They have not stated that they have the perp's DNA.
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DNA found at the scene could belong to anyone who had contact with the girls, with a random person who threw a cigarette butt on the ground, etc. We do not know any details about the DNA evidence that they have.
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We do not know whether the DNA that they have is mitochondrial or nuclear, and we do not know whether they have a complete profile.
IIRC a relative recently stated that “they did have DNA”. They meaning LE. Why would she say that unless it was the DNA of the killer?
 
IIRC a relative recently stated that “they did have DNA”. They meaning LE. Why would she say that unless it was the DNA of the killer?
LE might not know whether the DNA that they have is from the killer. I've seen many cases where they have DNA but don't know whether it's from the perp.
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Do you have a mainstream-media source that quotes the relative? If so, please provide the link. If there's no MSM source, then the information must be considered rumor and mustn't be discussed here.
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Even if your information is accurate, a relative might not know any details about the DNA, such as whether it's mitochondrial or nuclear. Mitochondrial DNA would have limited value prior to the identification of a suspect.
 
That’s what I wonder about too. He may have said something creepy to them prior to them seeing him again coming down the bridge.
Or, the girls may have noticed him acting strange. JMO, I think BG knew school was out that day and so he went to the bridge to troll for a victim/victims. I think Libby was especially observant and so noticed the man's odd behavior. If he also said something creepy as they passed, that would have also tipped the girls off. They may have thought the man was finally gone until they were nearly across the bridge and he started walking toward them. At that point, they were trapped. :(
 
It absolutely would help find BG.
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It would be a tremendous benefit in terms of allowing people who might have had contact with BG to connect the dots and identify him. If at least one of the girls was sexually assaulted, then the profile of BG is completely different than it is if there was no sexual assault. Right now we don't know whether to look for a quiet sexual predator of a volatile crack pot who has a tendency to fly off the handle and get into violent confrontations with people.
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I've probably never had contact with BG, and you've probably never had contact with BG, but somebody out there has, and knowing more information about his behavior could help that somebody to realize that he or she knows BG. Even knowing what kind of weapon was used might flip on a light switch in someone's brain and solve the case.
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I already stated that LE often withholds information in order to protect against false confessions. The point is, something as basic as whether the victims were sexually assaulted is not usually withheld. That isn't a "detail;" it's a fundamental aspect of the crime. In fact, I would argue that the public has a right to know whether there is a homicidal sexual predator out there or just a homicidal maniac.
-
Sexual predators tend to target victims who fit a certain profile. If BG is a sexual predator, then caucasian teen girls should be especially vigilant. If BG is not a sexual predator, then his next victim could be anybody who sets him off. I don't believe that LE has the right to keep the public in the dark about things like that.

Have they ever said why they are withholding whether there was SA? I agree with you that they often withhold specific pieces of evidence to avoid false confessions but this doesn't seem like a particularly good piece of evidence to withhold for that purpose - anyone would have a 25% chance of guessing right without having any information anyway.
 
Have they ever said why they are withholding whether there was SA? I agree with you that they often withhold specific pieces of evidence to avoid false confessions but this doesn't seem like a particularly good piece of evidence to withhold for that purpose - anyone would have a 25% chance of guessing right without having any information anyway.
While this article is pertaining to the audio, I believe this statement pretty much covers everything they are not releasing. MOO
From the article:
“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
Link to article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59....more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/amp/
 
Have they ever said why they are withholding whether there was SA? I agree with you that they often withhold specific pieces of evidence to avoid false confessions but this doesn't seem like a particularly good piece of evidence to withhold for that purpose - anyone would have a 25% chance of guessing right without having any information anyway.
I agree and IMO it makes a huge difference as far as if any DNA was collected. With all the clothes BG had on and if he had gloves (don't know just speculating) if there was no SA, then I would think there could be no DNA. It all seemed to happen very quickly so I'm thinking there was no useful DNA collected. IMO
I think the idea is that while they may have DNA, they're not yet sure how it pertains to the case-or if it does at all.
After all this time, the family wanting to basically kick start the case again and LE still collecting swabs ( I read this on a previous thread), IMO I don't think LE has any good DNA samples.
 
I agree and IMO it makes a huge difference as far as if any DNA was collected. With all the clothes BG had on and if he had gloves (don't know just speculating) if there was no SA, then I would think there could be no DNA. It all seemed to happen very quickly so I'm thinking there was no useful DNA collected. IMO

After all this time, the family wanting to basically kick start the case again and LE still collecting swabs ( I read this on a previous thread), IMO I don't think LE has any good DNA samples.

I feel like the crime scene may have been heavily compromised the night before-people walking around in the dark and doing things such as spitting, tossing cigerette butts to the ground, etc. Difficult to weed out what is new, what is relevant, etc.
 
LE might not know whether the DNA that they have is from the killer. I've seen many cases where they have DNA but don't know whether it's from the perp.
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Do you have a mainstream-media source that quotes the relative? If so, please provide the link. If there's no MSM source, then the information must be considered rumor and mustn't be discussed here.
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Even if your information is accurate, a relative might not know any details about the DNA, such as whether it's mitochondrial or nuclear. Mitochondrial DNA would have limited value prior to the identification of a suspect.
I will try to find the link but if I remember correctly it was one of the girl’s mothers. I would think she would be aware of the type of DNA they have.
 
I will try to find the link but if I remember correctly it was one of the girl’s mothers. I would think she would be aware of the type of DNA they have.
Tricia mentioned it in the first post on p1 of this thread:

"Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

"If this is true, then the perp is not in the DNA database. This means the only way we can catch him is for someone somewhere to recognize this man."


Not clear exactly what type of DNA they have.
 
LE might not know whether the DNA that they have is from the killer. I've seen many cases where they have DNA but don't know whether it's from the perp.
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Do you have a mainstream-media source that quotes the relative? If so, please provide the link. If there's no MSM source, then the information must be considered rumor and mustn't be discussed here.
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Even if your information is accurate, a relative might not know any details about the DNA, such as whether it's mitochondrial or nuclear. Mitochondrial DNA would have limited value prior to the identification of a suspect.
Snapchat murder cops fast-track DNA evidence in Libby German and Abby Williams case

I could have sworn I read on here recently that her biological mother said they have DNA from th crime, but I cannot find the article, but I found this one. Hope it helps. Thanks.
 
T
Tricia mentioned it in the first post on p1 of this thread:

"Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

"If this is true, then the perp is not in the DNA database. This means the only way we can catch him is for someone somewhere to recognize this man."


Not clear exactly what type of DNA they have.
Thank you, Mo.
 
The good thing if they do have DNA is if this guy is picked up for any felony in many states he will get swabbed and added to CODIS. I wish I remembered the name but I read about a case from the 90s that was recently solved because the detectives ran the DNA every couple of years and finally got a hit. IMO it might be very hard for a predator to go very long without getting nabbed for something.
 
I do not find it strange at all to take a casual, short winter walk in jeans, but agree a serious hike calls for a better choice of legwear. Also It should also be noted Feb 13 or the day the girls disappeared was said to be unseasonably warm:

... A year ago this week, on Feb. 14, search parties found Libby and her friend, Abby Williams, two eighth-graders at Delphi Community Middle School, killed near Deer Creek. On Feb. 13, an unseasonably warm Monday, the two friends had used the day off school to hang out on a popular community trail leading to one of Delphi’s iconic spots, the Monon High Bridge. [BBM]
COMMENTARY: One year later, murders of Abby Williams and Libby German still haunt Delphi - Indiana Economic Digest
Thank you. That is helpful to know.
 
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