NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

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Isabelle said:
Why would the state settle?

Maybe because they did nothing to stop this crap company from operating these unregistered, unsafe deathtraps, with improperly licensed drivers.

Ouch! Good point -- maybe the state might want to just try to silently slither under the leaves and hide.
 
I actually filmed our trip going down the hill to send to my parents before I knew that a reporter had filmed it as well. I will say that on my previous trips to this area the hill did not stand out to me. Of course I was paying particular attention to it this trip.

One thing that we did was drive out to Amsterdam and take route 30 south to the Apple Barrel so that we could trace the limo's path. Route 30 north of route 7 is a very narrow and windy road...I didn't like it at all. There were some curves that had warning signs to slow down to as little as 15 miles per hour. I was kind of confused as to how a limo would even be able to navigate it at all. But what is clear to me is that the brakes MUST have been working during this stretch of road, making me doubt the text message that says they were coasting for 15 minutes.

Anyhow, once you cross over route 7 there are six no truck signs one after the other. I do think that the speed could stand to be less. We were in a fairly new vehicle, with good brakes, and we rode them the entire length of the road. Even though the speed limit was 55 (and then 50), we hung out comfortable around 40 mph.

I'd say the speed could appropriately be 35-40 on this stretch of route 30, with possibly another sign warning of a stop sign ahead. But to be honest, the intersection itself is not dangerous for a vehicle with an alert driver and functioning brakes. I've been on much steeper roads in our more mountainous areas.
Agree with ya!
 
Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

FWIW, and I'm not sure it contributes to the argument here at all, but we do not pay property tax on our vehicles here in NY.




It was reported that the father used to work for the DMV and used to "help" people pass their exams to get licensed illegally. IMO, he probably still has connections there which could help with this sticker situation.

Hi everyone. I've spent the last 5 nights after work reading every post on this thread. I'm a long-time member here on Websleuths and have never really ventured out of the missing people forums, but when I heard about this case I knew this was where to come.

Let me start by saying that this horrible accident is fairly local for me. I'm in Albany, not far from the Schenectady county line and Schohaire is just over a half an hour from me. I've been through the intersection near the Apple Barrel a handful of times just exploring the area. This hill never stood out to me prior to this incident, but I've always been up/down it in a much small vehicle such as a sedan or a small SUV.

Anyways, as we do every year we picked a weekend to go leaf peeping and that weekend happened to be last weekend. We chose Schoharie this year for multiple reasons and our travels did take a past the Apple Barrel. We stopped into the store to look around (something I've always wanted to do but never had the time) and found a lot of really cute items. But it was eerily quiet. Almost so quiet that it was strange to speak. You could just tell that something had happened. After we were done shopping, we exited the Apple Barrell on the side of the accident. There were two representatives from the Red Cross standing next to the large wooden memorial with crosses on it. That side of the parking lot was blocked off by orange cones and yellow tape. There were also plenty of signs up the said "NO MEDIA." We approached the site quietly and somberly to pay our respects. It was very touching to see all of the flowers and the items left behind. Another couple came shortly after us so we left. The Red Cross members did not say anything to us, they just smiled and nodded. I think they were there for support in case anyone who was personally affected by the accident came to the scene.

Even though I did not know anyone in the limo, I do have mutual friends with a few of the individuals which I learned through Facebook. With so many souls, their connections spread far and wide throughout the Capital Region. It seems like everyone I talk to "knows someone who knows X." And we are in the same age group. I will be celebrating my 30th birthday in May of next year. These were my peers and were virtually from the same area as me and for that reason I do feel particularly touched by the incident.

All of that said, I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. I do have more thoughts but I can't think of everything at once. As I was reading this thread I saw a lot of posts that I would have responded to but I wanted to get to the end to see if anyone else did. Now I forget what they were.
Thanks, WS "old timer" for the helpful remarks, especially about the scene at the Apple Barrel and Hwy. 30/30A.

Welcome back to being active again on Websleuths!
 
Thanks, LLLindsayy.
"multiple severe traumatic blunt force injuries killed the victims" from the autopsy report sounds like the occupants were just bounced around the vehicle like a bunch of apples tossed in a barrel. (please excuse). Now I can see why there were no survivors. When I heard initially about the accident, I thought, surely, I thought, one or two people weren't hurt to the point of death. But yes, they were. It's nearly still unbelievable to me.

This thing may drag on for years. I hope not, but that's my bet. When national, state or local gov't agencies are involved, a case takes on an additional track. That's just the way it is -- no criticism, no agenda on my part -- but it will be just another phase of the investigation and litigation. IMO.
 
Thanks, LLLindsayy.
"multiple severe traumatic blunt force injuries killed the victims" from the autopsy report sounds like the occupants were just bounced around the vehicle like a bunch of apples tossed in a barrel. (please excuse). Now I can see why there were no survivors. When I heard initially about the accident, I thought, surely, I thought, one or two people weren't hurt to the point of death. But yes, they were. It's nearly still unbelievable to me.

This thing may drag on for years. I hope not, but that's my bet. When national, state or local gov't agencies are involved, a case takes on an additional track. That's just the way it is -- no criticism, no agenda on my part -- but it will be just another phase of the investigation and litigation. IMO.
Does anyone know if there are seat belts in a limo?
If they don’t have to have them, they should make it a requirement. I agree, this case will drag on and the loved ones caring for the orphaned children will have to take on the financial burden to raise them.
 
Does anyone know if there are seat belts in a limo?
If they don’t have to have them, they should make it a requirement. I agree, this case will drag on and the loved ones caring for the orphaned children will have to take on the financial burden to raise them.

Lap belts only, if any, and use is generally not required. I would be surprised if even 1% of limo passengers wear seat belts.
 
(sigh). Senseless, wasteful loss of life. Absolutely NO excuse for any of this.

I read much of the New York Times article but didn't finish it.

The Families and Friends remain in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Does anyone know if there are seat belts in a limo?
If they don’t have to have them, they should make it a requirement. I agree, this case will drag on and the loved ones caring for the orphaned children will have to take on the financial burden to raise them.

bbm
Here's a July, 2015, article from the NYTimes entitled, "The Dangers of Partying in a Stretch Limo." The article states that stretch limos are not required to have seat belts because "they use perimeter, banquette seating pointing inward, not forward facing seats."
IMO, parts of the article do not seem to flatter the State of New York.

The Dangers of Partying in a Stretch Limo
 
Apologies if this has already been posted.

Police believe Wilton motel victim died of gunshot wound

State Police believe the man who was found dead in a room in a Wilton motel last week was apparently shot to death through a wall from a neighboring room, and authorities have identified the alleged shooter.

Investigators do not believe the suspect intentionally shot 61-year-old Michael Kornacki before his death at Crest Inn & Suites on Route 9, but that a handgun was fired in a room at the motel and the round went through a wall and hit Kornacki. A homicide charge is expected in the coming weeks, though it was unclear what level of charge would be brought, according to State Police.

Snip

He is believed to have illegally possessed the handgun in the shooting, which had been reported stolen out-of-state, and the suspect may also face charges for possible immigration violations, as he is in the country from Mexico.
 
Well, hopefully this tragic accident will change people’s minds whenever they ride in one.
Well those “experts” weren’t very smart. Seat belts are designed to keep you from being catapulted inside of a vehicle in the event of a accident. I’d venture to say there may have been some survivors in this crash if they were buckled in. Thank you for your post.
 
Well those “experts” weren’t very smart. Seat belts are designed to keep you from being catapulted inside of a vehicle in the event of a accident. I’d venture to say there may have been some survivors in this crash if they were buckled in. Thank you for your post.
bbm
That's exactly my opinion, too. When I first saw the MSM article about this accident, I thought there would certainly have been some survivors. The path of the "limo" and where it stopped did not look to be a cause of 20 deaths. I could not logically understand that there was not one, not even one, survivor. Then I read about the brief autopsy info about how it was thought the occupants were injured unto death. All I could think was that each of them had essentially been thrown around the interior of the vehicle and that they sustained head and/or chest injuries that were severe enuff to cause every one of them to die. I am still SMH about it. That's when I concluded that either the seat belts somehow had failed, or that none of the occupants had used them (which was difficult to believe), or that seat belts were not in the vehicle.

This accident will be h*ll to pay.
 
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bbm
That's exactly my opinion, too. When I first saw the MSM article about this accident, I thought there would certainly have been some survivors. The path of the "limo" and where it stopped did not look to be a cause of 20 deaths. I could not logically understand that there was not one, not even one, survivor. Then I read about the brief autopsy info about how it was thought the occupants were injured unto death. All I could think was that each of them had essentially been thrown around the interior of the vehicle and that they sustained head and/or chest injuries that were severe enuff to cause every one of them to die. I am still SMH about it. That's when I concluded that either the seat belts somehow had failed, or that none of the occupants had used them (which was difficult to believe), or that seat belts were not in the vehicle.

This accident will be h*ll to pay.

I wouldn’t find it hard to believe at all if there were seatbelts but no passengers used them. I’ve rode in quite a few limos and party busses (I was in a lot of weddings lol) and never really looked for the seatbelt to strap myself in. I think a lot of people such as myself may have a false sense of security in a limo you’ve hired.
 
I wouldn’t find it hard to believe at all if there were seatbelts but no passengers used them. I’ve rode in quite a few limos and party busses (I was in a lot of weddings lol) and never really looked for the seatbelt to strap myself in. I think a lot of people such as myself may have a false sense of security in a limo you’ve hired.
Well if any good can come from this terrible, senseless tragedy, I hope people will think twice before they rent a “chopped limo”. Pay the extra cash for a safer vehicle with seatbelts for all passengers. Only a change in laws will require people to wear them, of course. Just because you feel like you’re safe in a “luxury living room on wheels”, you face the same dangers on the road as if you’re driving your own car.

California Ready To Enforce Law To Retrofit Stretch Limousines - Regulations - Luxury Coach & Transportation
 
Well if any good can come from this terrible, senseless tragedy, I hope people will think twice before they rent a “chopped limo”. Pay the extra cash for a safer vehicle with seatbelts for all passengers. Only a change in laws will require people to wear them, of course. Just because you feel like you’re safe in a “luxury living room on wheels”, you face the same dangers on the road as if you’re driving your own car.

California Ready To Enforce Law To Retrofit Stretch Limousines - Regulations - Luxury Coach & Transportation

Even a change in laws won’t guarantee people will wear them unfortunately. Imo

I’ve been on party busses with stripper poles... a lot of people rent these types of vehicles in the context of partying, and I think many people would disregard a seatbelt. I’m not justifying it or saying it’s right, but I sadly think a lot of people would still not wear a seatbelt in a limo.
 
Real information has been hard to come by these past few days. Had anyone found anything other than these disturbing "theories" that are on social media?
 
Real information has been hard to come by these past few days. Had anyone found anything other than these disturbing "theories" that are on social media?


Only new info I have seen is from a link to an article I posted upthread yesterday....


>snip

NTSB investigators were on the crash scene approximately 24 hours after it happened, but did not have access to wreckage — which is under the control of the State Police — until Friday. The board is expected to release a preliminary report within the next few weeks, but a full investigation may take more than a year.

On Tuesday, Prestige Limo’s operator, Nauman Hussian, is scheduled to appear in Cobleskill town court.
 
I wouldn’t find it hard to believe at all if there were seatbelts but no passengers used them. I’ve rode in quite a few limos and party busses (I was in a lot of weddings lol) and never really looked for the seatbelt to strap myself in. I think a lot of people such as myself may have a false sense of security in a limo you’ve hired.
Good point. I do remember how smooth our limo rides were, and I felt safe and protected -- I guess it's just how a ride like that can affect someone who doesn't experience it that often. The rides were so smooth and quiet, I could tell we were not rolling at breakneck speed wherever we were. It was a luxury ride, so we rode at a luxurious rate, especially in NYC, Baltimore, and NOLA.

I don't think this doomed party had that same floating feeling when they took their final ride, however. SMH. At least one passenger commented on her cellphone that the limo was very loud, etc., etc.
 
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