Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[Alethea]

Mollie's murder is very high profile, with LE spending thousands of hours investigating her disappearance, processing over 4,000 tips/leads, and hundreds of articles on her case published in MSM. I would expect a statement from his defense attorneys would have been made by now simply because of the amount of time that has gone by since his arrest, and the enormity of the coverage of this case. That they haven't isn't a big deal, just seems unusual to me compared to other cases I've followed that were similar and the lawyers of the accused did make statements on the behalf of their clients regarding their thinking on the charges.

This is the one thing I agree with his attorneys on. When your client is very unpopular (for deserved or undeserved reasons), it's often best to minimize any additional attention you bring to them. I think, in my opinion only, many "high profile" defense attorneys make statements to bring attention to themselves and their practice, and it is not in the best interest of their client. When I worked at a very big firm representing very unpopular banking clients, we never, ever made any statements. We could win a motion and the firm would decline to comment. It was the firm position that attorneys were not allowed to comment to the press without the permission of the firm's chairman. So I think they're really doing what's best by not making any statement. We'll see what they say in their filings!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This is the one thing I agree with his attorneys on. When your client is very unpopular (for deserved or undeserved reasons), it's often best to minimize any additional attention you bring to them. I think, in my opinion only, many "high profile" defense attorneys make statements to bring attention to themselves and their practice, and it is not in the best interest of their client. When I worked at a very big firm representing very unpopular banking clients, we never, ever made any statements. We could win a motion and the firm would decline to comment. It was the firm position that attorneys were not allowed to comment to the press without the permission of the firm's chairman. So I think they're really doing what's best by not making any statement. We'll see what they say in their filings!

That makes sense, for sure, there are plenty of reasons for them to keep mum.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I’m having trouble with copying the link to nolo.com. But if you type in stalking or premeditation at Nolo it has some interesting facts.

First, I believe that the first degree charges may be valid due to the very definition of premeditation.

There are two aspects that immediately come to mind.

CR May have stalked her one or more times. We don’t know at this time. I believe LE said his car appeared on video multiple times. If stalking is proved is that enough to also prove premeditation? Good question.

Next addressed premeditation and the “sharp object” used to stab Mollie. For the purpose of this conversation I’m going to refer to the weapon as a knife.

The moment CR picked up the knife, I have a few questions.

Where was the knife located? Trunk? Glove box? Console? Passenger seat?

How did the knife come to be there? Was it kept in the car, did CR happen to find it laying in the road where he ambushed Mollie? Was it put in the car as a part of a rape kit? We’re there other “tools” in the car? Had CR prepared the kit or tools the evening of the incident or months before he harassed Mollie?

These questions are important because of premeditation. For instance, if CR assembled his rape kit (I’m not exactly comfortable calling tools a rape kit, but it’s the best term I could identify it as this morning) a long period of time (days weeks or months) premeditating is viable.

If it was stored as part of an emergency kit, CR may not have formed premeditation at that time. Or he could have formemed it in the seconds prior to taking it in his hand.

However if he assembled the kit hours or minutes prior to the abduction, I think it’s reasonable to assume he placed it in the car intending to use it to kill Mollie.

Premeditation can take seconds to form.

If CR had no organized plan prior to the seconds before he abducted Mollie, he had no long term premeditation and first degree murder may be an over charge


HOWEVER premeditation may be firmed in a few short seconds.

If CR became angry and in a single second it flashed in his mind to grab the knife and stab her it’s enough to support a first degree charge.

Again, we don’t have enough info to determine CR’s thought or the strong likelihood premeditation existed in the murder

Imo LE has the evidence to support a first degree murder charge. It’s likely CR may have said something in his interview/confession at the end of August.

Another issue is raised and I’m not going into it to much this post.

Was the weapon a utility knife?

Was the weapon a screwdriver normally found in a vehicle?

Was the weapon a hunting knife?

Was the weapon a broken bottle?

Was it a butcher knife?

The weapon itself may be part of proving premeditation.

Also, the emerging reports of CR bothering or stalking other young women, if proven true, could be a part of proving a pattern of behavior. It could also be an important part of CR “hunting” a victim and obviously premeditation.

To many unanswered questions

Tired but I hope this makes sense.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

It’s breaking my heart to see this thread so inactive. I hope Mollie is not forgotten.

 

[katydid23]

There is not a lot to say anymore, until they start the hearings. We need more info...

 

[The Farm]

I know but it happens with so very little information you can only go over the same old so many times. Nothing is being released and until something is then we are at a standstill.
When that happens this thread will explode!!

 

[Alethea]

It’s breaking my heart to see this thread so inactive. I hope Mollie is not forgotten.

We are just waiting for some motions or discovery to be released. It's better IMO if a thread is quiet when there's no news. Otherwise posters just end up arguing with each other over old points. We want peace for Mollie.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

We are just waiting for some motions or discovery to be released. It's better IMO if a thread is quiet when there's no news. Otherwise posters just end up arguing with each other over old points. We want peace for Mollie.

I agree. I’m just concerned that Rivera’s Attorneys will file to have the confession tossed. Language barrier, if it exists, or fear of police.

I hope the State of Iowa Attorneys are the best in their field. I guess we will see.

This entire murder is just wrong for a significant number of reasons, some of which we can’t discuss.

Our country seems to swing to extremes so often and over the craziest issues. I hope we come back to the middle soon. I want to see Rivera’s trial be fair and not lost it dude tracked in any issue if the day.

It seems as though, if guilty, this man killed without remorse. He may be the most dangerous of killers if he has no regret.

Again if I post here it’s always an opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

More than 200 people have sent postcards to Judge Joel Yates protesting his decision to authorize $5,000 for an investigator to work with Cristhian Bahena Rivera's defense.

The postcards are distributed by the Virginia-based Secure America Alliance. They ask Yates not to "award any more taxpayer money for a deluxe legal defense for an illegal alien."

Rivera is charged with killing 20-year-old Mollie Tibbetts, who disappeared July 18 in Brooklyn. Rivera had worked for years at a dairy farm, and prosecutors say he was in the U.S. illegally.
Postcards ask Iowa judge to limit defense's investigative spending for Mollie Tibbetts murder suspect

ETA: The basic rights afforded all under the US Constitution apply to people: citizens and non-citizens. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

ASBURY, Iowa (KCRG) -- The town of Asbury in Dubuque County is responding to the death of an Iowa woman by preparing its town for tragedy.

Asbury has installed traffic cameras in various locations in hopes of keeping the city safe. (Charlie Grant, KCRG-TV9)
The city has installed three security cameras on Asbury Road, as well as some in Asbury Park. It's also asking its residents to install cameras on their properties.

Asbury Police Chief Tom Henneberry said this is partially due to the disappearance and death of Mollie Tibbetts in the small town of Brooklyn. He's pushing for cameras because in the Tibbetts case, investigators used private security camera footage to arrest someone for Tibbetts' death.

He said Asbury is a safe community, but he wants to be prepared.
With Mollie Tibbetts case in mind, Asbury installs security cameras

 

[Anthony D]

Didn’t the defense just file a motion claiming they haven’t received discovery from the prosecution. The prosecution said they are within the timeframe for handing over evidence and the motion is moot. I’m paraphrasing.


Edited to add info and source to support my comment.

Snip

Bahena Rivera's defense team in September filed a motionarguing prosecutors must tell them what specific actions he was accused of taking to kill the 20-year-old University of Iowa student. His lawyers said details included in documents charging him with first-degree murder do not offer enough information for them to mount a defense in the case. (Those documents are not public.)

In response, prosecutors said in a public filing that the motion for a bill of particulars cannot be used to obtain the state's evidence. Bahena Rivera's attorneys filed the motion before receiving any discovery, which prosecutors said will further support the charge.

"The filing of this motion is premature," Scott Brown and Laura Roan, the Iowa assistant attorneys general prosecuting the case, said in court records.

A report from the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation will be finalized and delivered to Bahena Rivera's attorneys Friday. Further forensic testing was expected to be done in November, prosecutors said.

'That's my car': Prosecutors reveal new detail of suspect's murder charge in Mollie Tibbetts killing

They still haven't buried her at this point? or did they take what remains they needed for forensic testing and buried/cremated the rest?

I mean I would think most of the results should be pretty clear by now. They called it multiple sharp force injuries so by now I would think they would have done enough testing to come to a conclusion (I am aware they aren't going to share this before the trial). It's not like they need to do toxicology tests or something like they would in an unexplained death such as a a body was found and no suspects have been named etc. I wonder what else they are testing at this point?

 

[Seattle1]

They still haven't buried her at this point? or did they take what remains they needed for forensic testing and buried/cremated the rest?
I mean I would think most of the results should be pretty clear by now. They called it multiple sharp force injuries so by now I would think they would have done enough testing to come to a conclusion (I am aware they aren't going to share this before the trial). It's not like they need to do toxicology tests or something like they would in an unexplained death such as a a body was found and no suspects have been named etc. I wonder what else they are testing at this point?

It was reported last August that Mollie's autopsy was complete, and a preliminary report issued that her death was a "homicide resulting from multiple sharp force injuries," the Iowa State Medical Examiner said. It's also protocol for the ME to release the body to the family at completion of autopsy, and Mollie's funeral was held on August 26. CBR waived his right to a speedy trial -- trial date is April 16, 2019.
Mollie Tibbetts autopsy finds that she died by 'multiple sharp force injuries' - CNN

 

[JudgeJudi]

Only real crime buffs will listen to day after day of monotone scientific testimony.

I agree 1,000% ... no, make that 2,000%. Last year I followed a trial that had 10 days of DNA expert witness testimony. We all thought we'd go out of our minds. I'll never listen to even 1 day of DNA evidence again. My advice to all, read a MSM article on it later that day and save your sanity.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

They still haven't buried her at this point? or did they take what remains they needed for forensic testing and buried/cremated the rest?

I mean I would think most of the results should be pretty clear by now. They called it multiple sharp force injuries so by now I would think they would have done enough testing to come to a conclusion (I am aware they aren't going to share this before the trial). It's not like they need to do toxicology tests or something like they would in an unexplained death such as a a body was found and no suspects have been named etc. I wonder what else they are testing at this point?

Find a grave indicates Mollie was cremated.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Find a grave indicates Mollie was cremated.

Find a Grave can be a very useful site. It states that both Abby and Libby died on 13 February. On the old threads there was a lot of discussion that Libby died on 13 February but Abby died on 14 February. That led to a lot of speculation that Libby died at the murder scene but Abby was taken somewhere and her body returned after midnight.

In any event, I don't believe that ever happened because on the night of the murders people were scouring the area most of the night. Even with all those people searching, their bodies weren't found until the following day. That would have to be one lucky murderer to successfully return a body when people with searchlights and torches were combing the area.

 

[Mica]

They still haven't buried her at this point? or did they take what remains they needed for forensic testing and buried/cremated the rest?

I mean I would think most of the results should be pretty clear by now. They called it multiple sharp force injuries so by now I would think they would have done enough testing to come to a conclusion (I am aware they aren't going to share this before the trial). It's not like they need to do toxicology tests or something like they would in an unexplained death such as a a body was found and no suspects have been named etc. I wonder what else they are testing at this point?

I recall them saying forensic anthropologists were going to look at the remains. Dont know if this has been done. By this time it should have been.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Premeditation can take seconds to form.

If CR had no organized plan prior to the seconds before he abducted Mollie, he had no long term premeditation and first degree murder may be an over charge

HOWEVER premeditation may be firmed in a few short seconds.

That's absolutely true for the legal definition of premeditation. From the nolo.com link you were unable to post:

"Someone premeditates a crime by considering it before committing it. Premeditation requires that the defendant think out the act, no matter how quickly—it can be as simple deciding to pick up a hammer that is lying nearby and to use it as a weapon."

It's irrelevant whether he had any sort of weapon or object normally kept in his vehicle. The fact of the matter is he followed her in his car, pulled over and exited the vehicle, ran behind her and then alongside and spoke to her. He admitted that she told him to leave her alone or she'd call the police or WTTE and that prompted him to act. He obviously didn't run up to her and say, "G'day, nice evening isn't it".

If he had the weapon on him, he chose to use it when he could have run past her or returned to his vehicle. If he had to retrieve the weapon from his vehicle, he could have chosen to drive off. It is premeditation with intent as per the nolo definition, and I believe that Mollie would have fought back.

What is premeditated and deliberate conduct?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It’s breaking my heart to see this thread so inactive. I hope Mollie is not forgotten.

We're all still here and will be until justice is obtained for Mollie and her loved ones.
She will never be forgotten.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I recall them saying forensic anthropologists were going to look at the remains. Dont know if this has been done. By this time it should have been.

I believe the protocol was for that to occur during or immediately postvautopsey.

FAs have the most interesting jobs. It is an exact specific science yet the methods. In the 70’s I was working at a large morgue and found it so interesting.

My boss, a pathologist, was a bit if everything. One if the most fantastic things he did was to mentor anyone who showed interest in listening to the dead speak throu evidence.

And while I went into a different field, he taught me so many things. Forensuc Antripologists (FA) find evidence where it is nearly impossible to find. Then they enlist a combination of old science partnered with cutting edge technology to test and establish results. And in the end they have to put it in English and present it to a jury in interesting yet informative, understandable results to a jury.

I loathe knowing the horrific condition Mollies beautiful body had degraded to when LE found it. There was nothing pretty about the rotting flesh they were led to by Rivera that morning.

 

[Alethea]

I agree 1,000% ... no, make that 2,000%. Last year I followed a trial that had 10 days of DNA expert witness testimony. We all thought we'd go out of our minds. I'll never listen to even 1 day of DNA evidence again. My advice to all, read a MSM article on it later that day and save your sanity.

I love watching trials but don't do trial work in my own practice. My husband ribs me when I'm watching trials, "you know you can do this yourself, right?" I like watching for a couple of days, not preparing for a year!