AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #7

[Underdogga]

Another random thought. What if Jayme had already been taken from the house when mother entered bathroom. Front door is blocked by deceased James. Some bathrooms have small windows. She could have been trying to escape. Far fetched I know. But it did cross my mind. Or mom and Jayme were both attempting to escape via bathroom window of course.

 

[Deleted member 278]

It's definitely inconclusive as to what is on the front left of the chair. It's also possible that it's some sort of ID tag. I suppose something like a zip tie could also look like splinters that protrude top and bottom? JMO, but I don't think that this white object is enough evidence to support the conclusion that someone was tied to this chair, which was a prevailing theory over the last few days.

I agree. I don't think anyone was tied to that cushion-less but ties remaining kind of blood-stained looking maybe splintered chair. (Sometimes I just want to scream.)

 

[carmenugt]

The opposite. Her clock read 12:39. The correct time was 12:31.

Thank you so much!! This makes a great difference in the timeline. The question is what were they doing in the house so long? Appx 25 minutes from initial gunshots to call. So many questions. When people suggested that the chair had restraints, I thought there was not enough time. The length of the ties is off for a chair cushion. So I wil add it to my assumptions that there was indeed enough time to restrain someone. This is a horrible crime to try to decipher. Everything about it is frightening.

 

[feendrache]

I trust that investigators are at least trying to rule these people out. One in particular stands out to me- booked 10/16 probation violation/hold, injuries on face, and was arrested a few years ago for attempted home break in while the woman was home. Fled as police were responding... not sure how long the forensics takes but hopefully they are able to expedite the testing and rule out. It's probably not any of these people but ruling them out is still a step forward imo

Yes, definitely agree with you. And they still might know something that can help out!



ALSO, this bugs me. The RadarOnline source that speaks of the dad going to answer the door and it being kicked in and he being shot: wasn't the neighbors claim they were exclusive and no one ever over to visit /have parties there and all she saw was them entering and leaving driveway ?

She also said they wouldn't answer the door when they sometimes brought mail to them, even if they are home?

Yet the dispatch log is under the impression that James answers the door (whether he opens it or is kicked in and he's shot before getting there is a whole different story.)

RECLUSIVE won't come to door in daytime, YET LE from dispatch log assumes from his downed position when they arrive he went to answer.

So, if that ended up how that part went down he is OK with answering door at 12:30 am, though ? ?

sounds messed. what do you guys think...

 

[Jax49]

I believe the dot is posted by someone who is marking the thread where they left off. I think the comment about not being able to remove the whole post may have been a joke. At least, I thought it was funny.

o/t

No, actually it is no longer possible to totally delete a post so people use a period or the word "delete". We had a long discussion about it on the Welcome thread.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Wait..are we sure which way her clock was off by 8 minutes? Another article said she looked at the clock and it was 12:38, sheriff said clock was 8 minutes off, so that's how it became 12:30. gah discrepancies!

Ashleigh Banfield transcript. CNN.com - Transcripts

JOAN SMREKAR, CLOSS` NEIGHBOR: We had come home about 11:30. We went to bed about quarter after 12:00. We were not sleeping and we heard the first shot and just a couple seconds is the second shot. And I asked my husband, I said, were those gunshots? Because they were so loud? And he said, yes, and he said, it`s a big gun and I rolled over and looked at the time on my clock, and it said 12:38. My clock is off by seven minutes per the Sheriff`s department, so this happened roughly around 12:30.

 

[margarita25]

I think the jail roster thing is interesting and here’s why:

In Rita Gutierrez’ case a POI was sitting in the local jail on related charges until they were able to forensically tie him to this case 2 or so months later. Meanwhile the public didn’t know he was in jail, as the police did not release this.

Ugh typo, I meant to say “unrelated charges”—gah!)

 

[Deleted member 278]

I believe the dot is posted by someone who is marking the thread where they left off. I think the comment about not being able to remove the whole post may have been a joke. At least, I thought it was funny.

Nope. Not a joke.

 

[Cj707]

Mother and father are a little on the older side to have a 13 year old daughter. Not impossible, but a bit unusual. Have we questioned/established paternity and all of that?

JMO.

I dont think they really are that old to have a 13 year old. Mom was 46 which means she was 33 when she had Jayme, and James was 56 so he was 43. Denise was younger than I will be when my daughter is 13. Men can have babies pretty much until they die of old age...

 

[zecats]

I agree. I don't think anyone was tied to that cushion-less but ties remaining kind of blood-stained looking maybe splintered chair. (Sometimes I just want to scream.)

Chair could have been used defensively by Mom..or Jayme. Killer could have stepped on it to reach something. Or fallen over it. Some kind of evidence is on that chair. Maybe Mom used it in bathroom as part of barricade, if in fact she went in there. jmo

 

[Cottonstar]

I posted about Radar yesterday but it got removed before Radar changed to an approved media source. Just like any report not direct from LE I’d take it with a grain of salt, but they do have a track record of publishing correct facts before other media outlets (the most recent being Mollie Tibbetts case). Although I don’t agree with their methods, they pay sources and sometimes release things that shouldn’t be for investigative integrity, their criminal reporting is typically very reliable.

Except when it comes to the JonBenét Ramsey case.

 

[MsBetsy]

This is exactly why I don't understand the reasoning for allowing this source and story.

In one part of the story we have the neighbor that alleges that they heard shots at 12:31am and yet we have an alleged FBI source describing a Hollywood screenplay where everything seems to have gone down within minutes from beginning to end. The scenario described means that Denise was up and awake and was able to make it to a bathroom to barricade only herself in. Why not barricade herself in Jayme's room? Was Jayme also awake at that hour? Both stories are contradictory and FBI and the Sheriff aren't discrediting the neighbor's timing of the shots. Both of the stories can't be true.

Also, if Denise had barricaded herself in the bathroom and could dial 911 why didn't she say a word? Or does the alleged FBI source have some theory of Denise dialing 911, dropping her phone somewhere, barricading herself in the bathroom and ... what? How does this even work? I don't buy this at all. The story describes a mother, contrary to everything else we have heard, that when the chips were down went to save herself and left her kid high and dry. I can't wrap my head around that. Not to mention, with Mom barricaded in the bathroom why bother with any effort to break into said bathroom just to kill her? What would be the point, if the target were Jayme? And if the target wasn't Jayme then why bother with Jayme or why wasn't Jayme found dead there as well?

Oh, and I might add the 911 call already happened and there wasn't a description in the call log of loud thumping or banging (trying to break into the bathroom allegedly) So, did this effort take place after the 911 call with only a 4 minute maximum time window ticking away?

Then we have the neighbor saying that she was told the contents of the 911 call, in part at least, and I can't imagine law enforcement would tell her anything because they wouldn't want to influence her witness statement. People need to realize that once details get into the media all of a sudden you have witnesses that incorporate that stuff into their recollections. For example, the neighbor was interviewed early and after she had already spoken with investigators. She had been interviewed by more than one media outlet over the days but now has incorporated something several days after "help" had first been mentioned. "Help" was first mentioned in the very first briefing/presser that was held with perhaps 3 or 4 reporters at around noon central time on Monday. It is the 10 minute briefing with the Sheriff wearing a hat and a hoodie.

Honestly, I don't buy any of the story at all.

I think it is much more likely that Jayme was hiding somewhere after her parents were killed. She may have been the one who made the 911 call, but it is also possible that the Mom did not die right away and was somehow able to call. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Wait..are we sure which way her clock was off by 8 minutes? Another article said she looked at the clock and it was 12:38, sheriff said clock was 8 minutes off, so that's how it became 12:30. gah discrepancies!

She originally stated her clock was 7 minutes fast, and it said 12:38. That would make it 12:31, which was originally reported in the local news. WAEU 13. It has been consistent ever since. Jmo

 

[Jethro4WS]

Why are we not showing Jayme a familiar face on TV? She knows her parents are deceased. It seems an aunt, uncle, cousins and friends showing solidarity for her would bring her comfort, give her hope, give her strength to get through each day.

In many of the missing child cases, the family or friend is on TV being interviewed. That has not been the case here. I find it concerning and I cannot think of a reason why it is not being done now. So many of the children that are brought home later state that they saw the news. It brought the child comfort to know that their family was working hard to bring them home.

I agree. I too have concerns that this hasn't happened already.

 

[margarita25]

:

I think the jail roster thing is interesting and here’s why:

In Rita Gutierrez’ case a POI was sitting in the local jail on unrelated charges until they were able to forensically tie him to this case 2 or so months later. Meanwhile the public didn’t know he was in jail, as the police did not release this.

But if this were the case, wouldn't law enforcement be executing search warrants on houses and properties connected to an individual in custody on other charges? I mean, Jayme is still out there alive or dead. If this were the scenario that would mean that law enforcement saying their focus is to find Jayme is all a lie as they would be sitting on their hands waiting to connect said person to the murders of the parents and then what, hope they can trade the death penalty (if there is one in Wisconsin) for Jayme sometime later?

I don't see this scenario at play.

I don’t think this is the case either but basically just wanted to mention that IF there was someone they suspect that has been placed in jail on unrelated charges the public might not necessarily know about it until this suspect can be tied to the victims forensically, as was the case with Rita Gutierrez. And if the suspect wasn’t talking, LE would still be seeking information on the whereabouts of the missing.

Again I doubt this is the case but wanted to mention it, as it was a new one for me too with RG’s case (LE not announcing a strong POI in custody). I myself knew immediately upon the arrest of the suspect but this was kept from the public for month and I had never seen that before.

As for LE believing Jayme still alive, I’m not sure if LE reaaaally believes this considering known abduction statistics. Moo. There is hope though if the suspect is fixated on her, etc, or wants to keep her alive like Elizabeth Smart, etc. and likely LE realizes this potential as well.

(Qmfr above for reference)

 

[zecats]

Yes, definitely agree with you. And they still might know something that can help out!



ALSO, this bugs me. The RadarOnline source that speaks of the dad going to answer the door and it being kicked in and he being shot: wasn't the neighbors claim they were exclusive and no one ever over to visit /have parties there and all she saw was them entering and leaving driveway ?

She also said they wouldn't answer the door when they sometimes brought mail to them, even if they are home?

Yet the dispatch log is under the impression that James answers the door (whether he opens it or is kicked in and he's shot before getting there is a whole different story.)

RECLUSIVE won't come to door in daytime, YET LE from dispatch log assumes from his downed position when they arrive he went to answer.

So, if that ended up how that part went down he is OK with answering door at 12:30 am, though ? ?

sounds messed. what do you guys think...

He may have gone to the door to ask who is there. Person may have been asking for help. That time of night, he might be thinking it was some kind of emergency. Killer then kicked in the door and shot him. jmo

 

[Lorelei1]

But if Dad saw something alarming and had to kick the door in, wouldn't he call 911 really quick for back up help?

Maybe if he had time, or since he was a hunter he may have wanted to go for his gun. IMO, he could have been talking to the person through the door and/or trying to hold it shut and he wasn’t able to get a phone or gun.

 

[Alethea]

Radar Online is classified as an "American Entertainment and Gossip Website" that I don't find credible either. They appear to take info from other news sources and then twist things around and add speculation which in my opinion, does more harm than good. When you see a term like " FBI Insider", making it sound like a credible source, that to me is an indication that anything they report should be taken with a grain of salt. Jmo

Yes! Plus, "FBI Insider" can mean the wife of a janitor cleaning the bathrooms in the San Francisco field office. I am sure the FBI blasts say they are operating under the assumption that Jayme is alive, because that is how all missing children's cases work.

 

[pinkfly]

If you want to see a series of chair close-ups go to thread 3 post 170
AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #3

 

[margarita25]

I posted about Radar yesterday but it got removed before Radar changed to an approved media source. Just like any report not direct from LE I’d take it with a grain of salt, but they do have a track record of publishing correct facts before other media outlets (the most recent being Mollie Tibbetts case). Although I don’t agree with their methods, they pay sources and sometimes release things that shouldn’t be for investigative integrity, their criminal reporting is typically very reliable.

Imo the last article reeked of sensationalism with their “sources”.

Unless it comes from LE, everything must be taken with a grain of salt, as LE stated.