AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #9

[white rabbit]

<modsnip - rude/discussing other posters>

we have NO idea what happened that night and dissecting news sources won't help.

two people are dead and a 13 year old is missing. start from the beginning. just as LE asked. who are these people? i find it interesting that they are asking for the public's help at the same time they're asking for the family's silence. most of you will say "oh that's protocol" but i call BS. you don't beg for public info from family/friends yet tell next of kin to keep quiet...oxymoron.

thoughts? <modsnip - telling how to post>

 

[Waterdog]

The last post in the last thread asked what the difference between abduction and kidnapping is.

Abduction is the unlawful taking of another person. Kidnapping is a type of abduction where the person kidnapped is forcibly taken and held against their will.

The broader term of abduction includes situations where the person may be taken unlawfully but not against their will. Parental abductions are the most common form of abduction. The child might not be held against their will but they were taken by fraud or against a court order. Assisting a child runaway is another form of abduction, as the child is not taken against their will but they are taken unlawfully as they are supposed to be under the supervision of their parents.

So if law enforcement is saying she was abducted is it safe to say they may think she willingly went with the unsub(s)? By willingly I include she went without a struggle.

And thank you, Alethea!

 

[kas]

@Whiskers16 - thank you for the great recap!

As to the shots the neighbors heard, here is the best that I have found, from a 10/17 CNN phone interview Ashleigh Banfield did with the neighbor.

CNN.com - Transcripts

JS, CLOSS` NEIGHBOR: We had come home about 11:30. We went to bed about quarter after 12:00. We were not sleeping and we heard the first shot and just a couple seconds is the second shot. And I asked my husband, I said, were those gunshots? Because they were so loud? And he said, yes, and he said, it`s a big gun and I rolled over and looked at the time on my clock, and it said 12:38. My clock is off by seven minutes per the Sheriff`s department, so this happened roughly around 12:30.

BANFIELD: And you said you heard those two shots and by your best recollection, those shots were a couple of seconds, like two, three, four seconds in between?

JS: It was just bang and bang. That close together.

————

I noticed that the time mentioned was 12:38, with the clock being off by seven seconds. Any chance that the clock seeven seconds was slow instead of seven seconds fast, placing the time they heard the shots at 12:45? This would have a much shorter window of time between when the shots were fired/heard (perhaps the fatal shots to JC) and when the 911 call was placed.

Personally I always set my clocks ahead, I've never set a clock behind.... that would make me late for everything lol

 

[Mysteries1974]

I strongly believe that Jayme is still alive. I’ve noticed in the threads that people think Jayme is a homicide victim.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have never seen it stated that the bodies were riddled with bullets. What is the source?

You have to click on the Spoiler:Sources on Whiskers16 post and you will see them. For "riddled with bullets" that comes from the DailyMail.

 

[Alethea]

So if law enforcement is saying she was abducted is it safe to say they may think she willingly went with the unsub(s)? By willingly I include she went without a struggle.

And thank you, Alethea!

I would read it as they are considering it an abduction because she is not where she is supposed to be with the people who have legal guardianship over her (her parents), but they do not have enough information to say it is a kidnapping yet.

For LE and the prosecutors, they wouldn't assume she was kidnapped in the first instance even if that may be what their gut or common sense says. They would first need evidence that the elements of the crime of kidnapping have been met.

 

[Waterdog]

None of the undocumented immigrants who knew CR came forward even with the $230k and likely amnesty they would get for providing information on Mollie's murder. I can't imagine a situation more perfect for enticing someone to come forward with more information. And yet, nothing. I do not think people are actually motivated with rewards in cases of murder. If you have a conscience, you will come forward without payment. If you don't want to get involved or have enough to hide yourself, no monetary payment will entice you.

Or simply, no one knows anything.

 

[MsBetsy]

Whiskers16 post on first page of this thread:

Police response

• Deputies arrived to the home less than four minutes later [1]
• Deputies arrived just 4 minutes after the call ended [15]
• No one was in sight and no vehicles were in the immediate area [1]
• "Where deputies found the bullet-riddled bodies" [4]

Whiskers16 has the citation and source for the direct quote.

I meant the news source. I'll try to find it. If this were the case, I have to wonder why there has been no mention of bullet ridden bodies. It sounds like they were each shot multiple times. When I hear bullet ridden I think of someone with twenty bullet holes, like with a machine gun. Why hasn't this been mentioned?

 

[Alethea]

How long do the police and fbi usually remain at the crime scene? I talked to my sister today and she said when they drove by the Closs home yesterday there was still a number of police and fbi vehicles there.

It depends. If they are receiving tips where they need to find corroborating evidence, they may keep going back to the home to search for something new. It's not just a crime scene in the sense of the place where the victims were murdered, but it was also their home with all of their possessions that may have clues to what happened (if the crime ends up not being a random stranger)

 

[Waterdog]

I would read it as they are considering it an abduction because she is not where she is supposed to be with the people who have legal guardianship over her (her parents), but they do not have enough information to say it is a kidnapping yet.

For LE and the prosecutors, they wouldn't assume she was kidnapped in the first instance even if that may be what their gut or common sense says. They would first need evidence that the elements of the crime of kidnapping have been met.

Ok. Then it doesn’t mean anything right now.

 

[Wrenny]

• 10/18/18 14:00 - Civilian search (asked for 100 volunteers) performed along Highway 8 between Barron and Turtle Lake, about 3 miles from the family's home, [1]

The search was 14 miles, from the crime scene to Turtle Lake. 14 teams of 7 volunteers teemed with LE searching 1 mile each. I'm not clear on where the 3 mile mention came from, though I did see it.

• Police response
  • Deputies arrived to the home less than four minutes later [1]
  • Deputies arrived just 4 minutes after the call ended [15]

Call was at 00:53:26 and lasted 47 seconds. The dispatcher tried to call back a few times and tried the land line. LE dispatched at 00:56:01, arrived 1:00:29. 4 1/2 minutes after dispatch, but a bit over 6 minutes after the call ended.

 

[NatalieSheild]

I have never seen it stated that the bodies were riddled with bullets. What is the source?

I just went back a few pages looking for where that was said as well, so I’m curious about this too and who made this comment.

 

[LaylaD]

Personally I always set my clocks ahead, I've never set a clock behind.... that would make me late for everything lol

I don’t intentionally set my clocks behind, but I’ve been known to ignore resetting them right away after a 10-15 minute power outage, and then have forgotten that they are slow....

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Reviewing whiskers' facts. What does everyone make of the people who repeatedly drove by the house at 2:00 a.m. While the police were there. Who does that?

 

[MsBetsy]

It's creatively hidden at the bottom of Whisker16's post, behind the button titled "Spoiler - Sources" (scroll to bottom, and just above attached images).

If you click that button, the list of sources will be revealed, which are ordered by numbers within brackets.

For the "bullet-riddled bodies" see Daily Mail article, below (that specific sentence is noted in a photo caption):

• [4] Daily Mail, "Desperate search for 'missing and endangered' 13-year-old girl after her parents are found shot to death in their home", Two adults found dead in Wisconsin home and a 13-year-old girl is missing | Daily Mail Online

Riddled with bullets would mean "full of" bullet holes. It has never been verified how many bullet holes were in the bodies.

 

[Shade13]

So I think one of the following is true

They're either very close and don't want the family speaking and tipping the suspect off

or

They have absolutely no idea. Man that is so scary to think about. What if they really know nothing more than there was a murder and an abduction? And us claiming they know more they're not revealing is just coping.

 

[MsBetsy]

You have to click on the Spoiler:Sources on Whiskers16 post and you will see them. For "riddled with bullets" that comes from the DailyMail.

That explains it. Consider the source.

 

[SecretGarden]

Random house break-in is very plausible. But living in WI, I would not break into a home at midnight with a large red pickup in the driveway. Only due to generalizations (non-elderly male, armed home). It still feels personal.

 

[Shade13]

Reviewing whiskers' facts. What does everyone make of the people who repeatedly drove by the house at 2:00 a.m. While the police were there. Who does that?

Nosy people in small rural areas. When they seen police lights, they go by to look.

 

[rosesfromangels]

post[/URL], ....
For the "bullet-riddled bodies" see Daily Mail article

Respectfully snipped for focus

First, a huge *thank you* to Whiskers16 for the superb recap. Really fantastic and so helpful!
Second, "bullet-riddled bodies" sounds so Bonnie and Clyde! What on earth could these two people who worked at a turkey factory done that merited ending up with bullet-riddled bodies?!!
Finally, as for the neighbor who called the Victims "reclusive"...well duh...one of them was always sleeping, since they worked opposite shifts. Thus, the quiet. Was it just me or did anyone else get a vision of Mrs. Cavitz from Bewitched when reading that statement!

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[zecats]

Nosy people in small rural areas. When they seen police lights, they go by to look.

Ironically LE seemed to know who they were. Called them out by name (and initials).