Caravan of 4000 migrants heading to the US/Mexico border

[katydid23]

Do you ever wonder what your life would be like, what your children’s lives would be like, if you weren’t born in this country?

I’ve traveled pretty extensively on mission trips in third world countries and I think about that all the time.

What would we be willing to do to save our children from violence and poverty?

In America poor people have food stamps, cell phones, and subsidized apartments.

In other countries parents watch their children die from lack of food and medicine. Childhood diarrhea or strep throat coukd be a death sentence.

What would you and I do to save our families?

So do we just OPEN our borders to anyone living in a 3rd world country? Isn't that endangering my family? Do I have the right then to object and say that for the sake of my family's welfare, I don't want thousands of people forcing their way into Los Angeles, where my grandchildren live and attend school.

Am I allowed to say that I don't want them subjected to the same things these families are running from?

Why can't we do this in an orderly fashion? I have nothing against LEGAL Immigration.

But right now there are 9000 people heading to our border and they plan to force their way into our country---into my hometown. THAT IS NOT RIGHT. That is not immigration. That is more like an invasion than immigration.

 

[fred&edna]

Do you mean like Holocaust victims? Or those who suffered during the potato famine in Ireland?

I expected a mass of suffering people looking far worse than current US citizens living in poverty.

 

[katydid23]

Do you mean like Holocaust victims? Or those who suffered during the potato famine in Ireland?

Did the Irish force their way into this country illegally?

 

[katydid23]

A 20-year-old named William said he left Honduras looking for work.
He left home looking for work, he said, and was ultimately bound for either Mexico or the United States, wherever he could land a job.Migrant caravan resumes march northward from Mexico-Guatemala border - CNN


HE IS JUST LOOKING FOR A JOB. He is not starving or in danger.

 

[katydid23]

Central American migrants walking to the U.S. start their day departing Ciudad Hidalgo, Mexico, Sunday, Oct. 21, 2018.
Associated Press/Moises Castillo

Central American migrants walking to the U.S. start their day departing Ciudad Hidalgo, Mexico, Sunday, Oct. 21, 2018.
Associated Press/Moises Castillo

• The migrant caravan that trekked through the Northern Triangle and reached Mexico this weekend has swelled to an estimated 7,000 people, and is largely heading to the United States.

The Central American caravan has swelled to an estimated 7,000 migrants. Despite Trump's threats, it's heading north toward the US border.

 

[mickey2942]

7000 people heading towards the border. It gets larger every day.

 

[kay74]

They showed on TV people handing out money to them. Who are they? Who is supplying this money, that troublemaker, Soros? Creating more chaos for our country.

 

[bluedivergirl]

What troubles me may seem a small thing ~ They are marching with the flags of their country of origin.

If they want to be Americans, why aren't they flying a US flag? The representation of their dream.

Statistically, these migrants are poorly educated. Honduras had no public education until 1957. There are still many children who do not have access to an education, and the cost of supplies is too much for many families.

Where is the money the US sends being used? Why aren't there more opportunities created by US gifts?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

A 20-year-old named William said he left Honduras looking for work.
He left home looking for work, he said, and was ultimately bound for either Mexico or the United States, wherever he could land a job.Migrant caravan resumes march northward from Mexico-Guatemala border - CNN

HE IS JUST LOOKING FOR A JOB. He is not starving or in danger.

I’d like to take this opportunity to clarify a few items. So, Katy, I’m just jumping off your post!

First: These migrants and refugees have a right to apply for asylum in the US, according to national and international law.

They are breaking no U.S. laws.

Second: They are not illegal immigrants. By definition, that’s literally impossible at this point.

To be considered “illegal,” the must first be in our country illegally.

They are not.

Three: Not all refugee or asylum or citizenship applicants are approved. Obviously. Many, many are not.

Four: They are not breaking any law by applying at our border. In fact, there are systems in place that allow them to do exactly that.

Five: Yes, economic hardship, internal strife, violence, etc. can be legitimate reasons to seek refugee or asylum.

Obtaining Asylum in the United States

The Convention on the Rights of the Child does not hold minor children to the more stringent processes expected for adults: Refugee law - Wikipedia

General definition of a refugee: “A refugee, generally speaking, is a displaced personwho has been forced to cross national boundaries and who cannot return home safely (for more detail see legal definition).” ... “In particular, (the Childhood Convention agreement) extends the protection of refugee children by allowing participating nations the capacity to recognize children who do not fall under the strict guidelines of the Convention definition, but still should not be sent back to their countries of origin. It also extends the principle of non-refoulement to prohibit the return of a child to their country "where there are grounds for believing that there is a real risk of irreparable harm to the child.”

Refugee - Wikipedia

Further: “In 1984, a group of Latin American governments adopted the Cartagena Declaration, which like the OAU Convention, added more objectivity based on significant consideration to the 1951 Convention. The Cartegena Declaration determine that a 'refugee' includes:

“Persons who flee their countries because their lives, safety or freedom have been threatened by generalised violence, foreign aggression, internal conflicts, massive violation of human rights or other circumstances which have seriously disturbed public order.”

Refugee law - Wikipedia

Additionally, a displaced person (another legal phrase) can apply to people who do not meet the strict legal definition of refugee.

 

[katydid23]

I’d like to take this opportunity to clarify a few items. So, Katy, I’m just jumping off your post!

First: These migrants and refugees have a right to apply for asylum in the US, according to national and international law.

They are breaking no U.S. laws.

Second: They are not illegal immigrants. By definition, that’s literally impossible at this point.

To be considered “illegal,” the must first be in our country illegally.

They are not.

Three: Not all refugee or asylum or citizenship applicants are approved. Obviously. Many, many are not.

Four: They are not breaking any law by applying at our border. In fact, there are systems in place that allow them to do exactly that.

Five: Yes, economic hardship, internal strife, violence, etc. can be legitimate reasons to seek refugee or asylum.

Obtaining Asylum in the United States

The Convention on the Rights of the Child does not hold minor children to the more stringent processes expected for adults: Refugee law - Wikipedia

General definition of a refugee: “A refugee, generally speaking, is a displaced personwho has been forced to cross national boundaries and who cannot return home safely (for more detail see legal definition).” ... “In particular, (the Childhood Convention agreement) extends the protection of refugee children by allowing participating nations the capacity to recognize children who do not fall under the strict guidelines of the Convention definition, but still should not be sent back to their countries of origin. It also extends the principle of non-refoulement to prohibit the return of a child to their country "where there are grounds for believing that there is a real risk of irreparable harm to the child.”

Refugee - Wikipedia

Further: “In 1984, a group of Latin American governments adopted the Cartagena Declaration, which like the OAU Convention, added more objectivity based on significant consideration to the 1951 Convention. The Cartegena Declaration determine that a 'refugee' includes:

“Persons who flee their countries because their lives, safety or freedom have been threatened by generalised violence, foreign aggression, internal conflicts, massive violation of human rights or other circumstances which have seriously disturbed public order.”

Refugee law - Wikipedia

Additionally, a displaced person (another legal phrase) can apply to people who do not meet the strict legal definition of refugee.

NO, one cannot seek 'asylum' just because they want a higher paid job!

Asylum is very specific and has narrow requirements which the vast majority of these invaders do not meet.

As for breaking laws, YES, if they force their way in, physically, then they are breaking our border laws.

They know they do not meet those requirements. Look at the interviews. They are seeking work, better jobs. They are not running from violence.

Because of our catch and release policies, ALL of these people will stay in our country, but without legal authority. They will agree to appear in court, but then will just infiltrate with the masses and never reappear.

So that^^^^ is ILLEGAL on their part. They know they are pulling a fast one and are sneaking in, illegally. And it is ILLEGAL because they are not truly seeking asylum. They just want better wages and the dollar is stronger than the peso. For now...

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

What troubles me may seem a small thing ~ They are marching with the flags of their country of origin.

If they want to be Americans, why aren't they flying a US flag? The representation of their dream.

Statistically, these migrants are poorly educated. Honduras had no public education until 1957. There are still many children who do not have access to an education, and the cost of supplies is too much for many families.

Where is the money the US sends being used? Why aren't there more opportunities created by US gifts?

... Because nobody ever flies the Irish flag in America? Or the Scottish or British flags? Or the Italian flag? Or the Mexican or Honduran flag?

Or even the Confederate stars-and-bars flag, which isn’t the American flag, either?

What nonsense. MOO

And specifically because of the humanitarian reasons you just mentioned, they could have a right to gain asylum or refugee status in this country.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

NO, one cannot seek 'asylum' just because they want a higher paid job!

Asylum is very specific and has narrow requirements which the vast majority of these invaders do not meet.

As for breaking laws, YES, if they force their way in, physically, then they are breaking our border laws.

They know they do not meet those requirements. Look at the interviews. They are seeking work, better jobs. They are not running from violence.

Because of our catch and release policies, ALL of these people will stay in our country, but without legal authority. They will agree to appear in court, but then will just infiltrate with the masses and never reappear.

So that^^^^ is ILLEGAL on their part. They know they are pulling a fast one and are sneaking in, illegally. And it is ILLEGAL because they are not truly seeking asylum. They just want better wages and the dollar is stronger than the peso. For now...

You’re twisting my words and “refuting” things I haven’t said or implied. Please be respectful.

I’m very nearly postitive you don’t speak for these migrants and are not fully aware of the situations from which they are fleeing.

To call them liars is to imply they’re breaking the law.

They have broken none of our laws. Additionally, asylum CAN be applied for once they’re INSIDE our borders, too. To say otherwise is untrue.

If you’re discussing the hypothetical scenario of what might happen in your opinion once they reach our border, please say as much.

In my opinion, they’ll all be rounded up and put into camps. And forced labor might be how our government attempts to justify “making” another country “pay” for the border wall.

All MOO and speculation, of course.

 

[katydid23]

rsff

This assertion is blatantly untrue and has zero basis on facts or reality. It’s offensive, imo.

I assume the reason you provided no ToS-allowable sources to substantiate this claim is because none exist?

This website’s ToS prohibits unsubstantiated rumor-mongering, off-topic and inflammatory politicking and the trafficking of conspiracy theories.

Just FYI.

It's not that large of a stretch. These are all going to be Democrat voters. What a bonus for the DNC.

 

[bluedivergirl]

... Because nobody ever flies the Irish flag in America? Or the Scottish or British flags? Or the Italian flag? Or the Mexican or Honduran flag?

Or even the Confederate stars-and-bars flag, which isn’t the American flag, either?

What nonsense. MOO

And specifically because of the humanitarian reasons you just mentioned, they could have a right to gain asylum or refugee status in this country.

The overwhelming majority of people who are flying foreign flags are NOT burning the US flag underneath it.

In video interviews posted on this forum, these migrants have stated their determination to cross the US border, whether we want them to or not.

IMO, many people are watching the migrant march, seeing what many of us see. A large caravan with women and children in the very front. Robust appearing young men making up an estimated 80% of the remainder, carrying flags of their home country. I see them through pragmatic eyes.

I see an invading army.

I shudder to think of what will happen. I pray to God that they turn back. They cannot be allowed to cross the border as an invading mob.

IMO, if that happens, we will no longer be a sovereign nation with rule of law.

IMO, they will be stopped; force will meet equal force.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It's not that large of a stretch. These are all going to be Democrat voters. What a bonus for the DNC.

This is a blatant, willful misrepresentation of facts. It’s xenophobic fantasy some folks with ill intent threaten to strike fear into the general public, imho.

Non-citizens cannot vote in federal elections.

Hard stop.

Anyone who violates this law can be fined, imprisoned, denied citizenship and deported.

Additionally, the path to American citizenship usually takes years. Soooooo, when exactly will either party be able to “manipulate” these possible citizens to vote for either party? A decade from now, at best?

 

[RANCH]

A 20-year-old named William said he left Honduras looking for work.
He left home looking for work, he said, and was ultimately bound for either Mexico or the United States, wherever he could land a job.Migrant caravan resumes march northward from Mexico-Guatemala border - CNN


HE IS JUST LOOKING FOR A JOB. He is not starving or in danger.

This guy is obviously looking for work which is not a valid reason for asylum.

My guess is he will try to game the asylum system or enter the US illegally.

 

[Q Dart]

And guess what will happen if the migrants arrive here? In a generation the U.S. will have more working families and more proud citizens, and thus will be a greater nation. IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME.

 

[katydid23]

Our country cannot fling open our borders to hordes of people, claiming they need to live here.

It is not sustainable. Not sustainable for our education system, our housing situation, our welfare and financial aid resources, our healthcare resources, etc etc.

 

[katydid23]

And guess what will happen if the migrants arrive here? In a generation the U.S. will have more working families and more proud citizens, and thus will be a greater nation. IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME.

So they should automatically become US citizens now? They can aggressively force themselves across our border, and expect to become citizens now?

What about the long lines of people who have been waiting patiently , LEGALLY awaiting their immigration credentials and their citizenship?

 

[otto]

The overwhelming majority of people who are flying foreign flags are NOT burning the US flag underneath it.

In video interviews posted on this forum, these migrants have stated their determination to cross the US border, whether we want them to or not.

IMO, many people are watching the migrant march, seeing what many of us see. A large caravan with women and children in the very front. Robust appearing young men making up an estimated 80% of the remainder, carrying flags of their home country. I see them through pragmatic eyes.

I see an invading army.

I shudder to think of what will happen. I pray to God that they turn back. They cannot be allowed to cross the border as an invading mob.

IMO, if that happens, we will no longer be a sovereign nation with rule of law.

IMO, they will be stopped; force will meet equal force.

There certainly are an awful lot of able bodied, healthy looking young men in the crowd. In any other century this would be viewed as an invasion and dealt with as an invasion.

It's only natural to ask why such a large group cannot make change in their own country. Although compassion for those at risk is important, we only need look to Europe to see the consequences of a soft invasion that started with small groups and eventually swelled to hundreds of thousands.