Season 2 Episode 1

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sorry I cant laugh with you life. for the point... bare with me, if avery is guilty and for the record he has been convicted as such then this *advertiser censored* show about averys freedom has over shadowed the true reality of the situation.
that terasa was snuffed out.

agree.....there is noevidence to support Teresa was rapped.
although highly likely she was. the odds favour this scenario, but no one can make any assumptions with this case.
a cremated body leaves no tales to tell :-(
 
Ikwym K-Mac, I feel bad for Teresa that it's like she's been forgotten in all of this, but I often think about her, poor girl.

I just couldn't help myself when you said 'stellar job'- without even thinking LE framed SA- it was a shambles of an investigation from the get go.
 
Despite how amazing KZ is and how much evidence she is uncovering, I have an awful feeling that SA and BD are never gonna get out and I believe they are both innocent.
Somebody high up clearly wants to save face and isn't interested in learning the real truth. They want SA and BD to be guilty and that's that. At this point, I believe someone could show them video footage of someone else murdering Theresa followed by a full confession from them and intricate details of how they did it and the state would still find ways to pin it on SA.
The risk of him getting out and vindicated would be hugely humiliating and harmful to the state. If SA stood to possibly gain more than $30,000,000 in compensation last time he was wrongly convicted, can you imagine how much he'd possibly get this time?
They won't allow that! Plus they want to protect all the LE, forensic 'experts' and bad lawyers who royally messed up.
I would love for them to be released but sadly, I don't think they ever will.
The rich and corrupt always win.
 
Wowsers, I just finished watching the whole Season 2 of the Netflix series. I am just gobsmacked about what those b***ards got away with in corrupt as he** Manitowoc county. I don't even know where to begin to discuss all of it. It's just astounding, SMH.
I think Ms. Zellner has really put together the whole jigsaw puzzle of what actually happened.
Can't believe the Medical Examiner and how she was treated & threatened with arrest if she entered where the bones were. Very very fishy and something horribly wrong with this whole case. She resigned as Manitowoc ME after 15 years in a job she loved because of the threat against her, :(
And don't even get me started about Brendan Dassey. I hope they all end up under the jail, the ones that were involved in this travesty of Justice.
 
I was so excited to watch this even though I had read somewhere that it was horrible. I disagree - I think it is very interesting & am happy that more things have been brought out. Regardless of bias in MAM1, this is not the legal system working in a correct way. I continually think of another documentary that brought this out : Paradise Lost and the West Memphis 3. This will probably end the same with the real killer never being brought to justice.
• KK: He's not one of the good guys for sure - but whoever wrote about hoping his daughter is raped is just as slimy.
• I knew before I even watched, seeing SA's parents would break my heart and it did/does. God love them for what they have been through. It has certainly taken a toll on them. Delores is such a strong woman.
• I was glad to see more about TH. It's sad that her horrible death cannot be the star of the story due to the mistakes. It was good to see her friends remembering her. I think she would have been someone who would have made some type of impact in the world. She did have a beautiful smile.
• BD: I can't get over how they still believe in his confession. He was so obviously fed information. LE should be ashamed. I also cannot believe the laws and legal avenues he is having to go through to get out. It's also obvious that he has a lower IQ. They took advantage of that and it is a disgrace that has happened. I feel bad for his mom and dad too. That's one thing both BD & SA have always had going for them - families that have stood with them.
• SA: I wish he would just stick with one woman - good grief. Do I think he is innocent? yes.
• KZ: I think this is very good - I think she is going to keep going until she gets him out. I got on board with her when she bought the RAV4. I don't completely agree with all the tests* but she is doing everything she can think of. That's what your lawyer should be doing. *One thing I wondered about the tests was the "blood" they were using. It could have been thinner or thicker and they should have tried doing it in a more hurried way like a frantic killer. Kudos for the documentation and results of the tests. It makes you think more instead of just taking evidence/theory given to you.
• LE: I think they did wrong things. I think they gathered the blue family to cover things they did. The deals and the backroom events that run the web between LE, legal entities, and politics often hurts people who are not in that web (the public they are supposed to be serving). I believe it happens every day in this country.
I'm excited about this documentary. I'm glad that there are people who are not letting this go and keeping it in the media/in front of the public. I respect everyone's opinion, for or against. I believe Steven Avery has been wrongly convicted twice. I believe if he or Brendan would have been from popular families or well-educated they never would have been targeted by law enforcement or the justice system. And I cannot get over the key. I cannot see how they missed it in earlier searches and I do not believe Steven would have put it there. The killer would have put it in the burn pit or the barrel.
 
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missy1974 said:
I think the fact that there was blood at 3 different entries into the vehicle, yet none on the doors, is unrealistic. Drivers side, passenger side (although, I concede that the blood could have got there while he was in the driver seat), and the back passenger door.

I agree with you k-mac about there being no evidence she was stabbed, and absolutely no evidence that she was raped. BUT, this is what the State went with, this is what the State told her family, this is what the State has etched into friends/families memories of Teresa's final moments. This is what the State continues to say.
Click to expand...

Actually missy, this is what Fassbender and Wiegert told Brendan to basically repeat back to them.
k-mac said:
im not sure what you are implying coolj.
my opinion and thoughts of the case hasn't changed .
avery is guilty .
doesn't mean the cops did a stellar job to catch him.
some of their theories are just as ridiculous as the defence.
with a cremated body there is no physical cause of death.
this is the biggest thorn in the prosecutions side.
working out how terresa was killed isn't possible with what they have.

however the evidence against avery is compelling enough imo.
Click to expand...

So are you saying you agree evidence was planted but he is still guilty?

The question isn't whether the evidence against Avery is compelling or not, it certainly is. The question is if it was planted or not. The evidence has obviously been planted.

Think about the blood in the RAV. How does that blood selectively land in those spots but not on the Steering wheel, gear shift or door handles?

Are you even considering the possibility that this is a frame job? You seem to understand the prosecutions narrative is not based on reality, yet are ok with them sending a man and 16yo boy to prison for life? I find that difficult to comprehend.
 
coolj
I stated straight up in my first post on this thread no doubt the evidence appears strong but the possibility of "embellishment" or enhancement is real.

I have also stated many times the entire case is convoluted with theories that can not be proven for the prosecution and the defense.

the elephant in the room that you will not address and is the bases for my view is why and how would LE happen upon Teresa's murdered and cremated remains, her car and belongings and then scoop it all up and decide to take it all to averys place so they could frame him for a murder he didn't commit!!!!

the embellishment of evidence happens every day right or wrong but don't tell me LE would deliberately sabotage a murder investigation and let somebody else get off scot free....because to believe they did all that they must have had a very good crimescene and evidence against somebody else.

its a jump in conspiracy that is just unrealistic.
 
k-mac said:
coolj
I stated straight up in my first post on this thread no doubt the evidence appears strong but the possibility of "embellishment" or enhancement is real.

I have also stated many times the entire case is convoluted with theories that can not be proven for the prosecution and the defense.

the elephant in the room that you will not address and is the bases for my view is why and how would LE happen upon Teresa's murdered and cremated remains, her car and belongings and then scoop it all up and decide to take it all to averys place so they could frame him for a murder he didn't commit!!!!

the embellishment of evidence happens every day right or wrong but don't tell me LE would deliberately sabotage a murder investigation and let somebody else get off scot free....because to believe they did all that they must have had a very good crimescene and evidence against somebody else.

its a jump in conspiracy that is just unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Cops plant drugs but blood, bone, a car and whatever else, it doesn't make sense. I doubt their ability and their desire to do that. That means they either had to kill her her and burn or body or they found it burning in another person's yard and dumped some bone and ash in Avery's and moved everything.
 
cherrymeg said:
Cops plant drugs but blood, bone, a car and whatever else, it doesn't make sense. I doubt their ability and their desire to do that. That means they either had to kill her her and burn or body or they found it burning in another person's yard and dumped some bone and ash in Avery's and moved everything.
Click to expand...
yep that's it cherrymeg

you have to start at the beginning if you want to take the averys innocent ride, not post Teresa's death and its just not being included.
 
k-mac said:
yep that's it cherrymeg

you have to start at the beginning if you want to take the averys innocent ride, not post Teresa's death and its just not being included.
Click to expand...

This probably isn't more factual than MaM but it makes me laugh.
 
It's been awhile since I followed this case.

The blood flow pattern on the back door is interesting. I think the guy should of at least touched the key area. I to think that other areas could of been cleaned up, but why place the car in your dump yard.

How did Avery get scratched? I really need to review the timeline again, to get a feel of this case again.

KZ is a really interesting, I like her thinking outside the box.
 
@keeponsearching IIRC Avery cut himself a week or so before the 31st, it reopened the night of the 3rd when he was hooking the trailer up to the truck or something like that. It was more of a gash then a scratch... probably originally from metal. I would imagine working with cars, it's not unusual.
 
k-mac said:
coolj
I stated straight up in my first post on this thread no doubt the evidence appears strong but the possibility of "embellishment" or enhancement is real.

I have also stated many times the entire case is convoluted with theories that can not be proven for the prosecution and the defense.

the elephant in the room that you will not address and is the bases for my view is why and how would LE happen upon Teresa's murdered and cremated remains, her car and belongings and then scoop it all up and decide to take it all to averys place so they could frame him for a murder he didn't commit!!!!

the embellishment of evidence happens every day right or wrong but don't tell me LE would deliberately sabotage a murder investigation and let somebody else get off scot free....because to believe they did all that they must have had a very good crimescene and evidence against somebody else.

its a jump in conspiracy that is just unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Head over to episode 9 and your questions will be answered. There's possible other suspects and a timeline of when police could have fitted SA up. That officer Colborn needs firing immediately! Knew he was dodgy from the number plate incident but after watching episode 9 I'm convinced he was the main guy doing the staging.
 
"Cops plant drugs but blood, bone, a car and whatever else, it doesn't make sense. I doubt their ability and their desire to do that. That means they either had to kill her her and burn or body or they found it burning in another person's yard and dumped some bone and ash in Avery's and moved everything."

yeah... the cops general attitude, seconds after they "found" the car (remember this is a car that should not have been near averys according to cell phone towers) was "is avery arrested yet?"... like, c'mon let's do it already.

for whatever reason they wanted avery gone, back in 85, they wanted him to stay gone, in 95... and now i should believe that it's all cool between the parties, in 05... yeah. think about human nature, and how nobody changes...
 
cherrymeg said:
This probably isn't more factual than MaM but it makes me laugh.
Click to expand...

This is one scary video. How much forensic evidence is treated as reliable when in fact it is either junk science or not nearly as reliable as we think? Juries are led to rely on expert evidence and testimony when it may be totally floored.

Makes it super important to look at the evidence as a whole and not rely on forensic evidence in a vacuum.

I'm up to Ep 4. At this stage I'm feeling that Steven may be guilty - don't know about Brendan but toally believe his testimony was coerced and thus he should be found not guilty on existing evidence.
 
Hey Missy1984 thanks for the welcome :). I am watching season 2. I came out of season 1 (quite some time ago) on the fence re S Avery - at this stage am leaning a bit more towards him being guilty. Am only basing my opinion on what I have seen so far though - so am open to change. I must confess though I am finding SA a lot less likeable in this season - it's possible that this is having an impact on my judgement.

Like other posters above - I can totally "come to the party" that evidence was planted - but haven't been able to make the leap to police and co actually finding the body/car and manipulating the crime scene to the extent they would have had to do and that they also knowingly don't investigate a crime in order to frame Avery. And how else it could have been done escapes me. Will watch more today and see where KZ takes it.
 
Andieinsyd said:
Hey Missy1984 thanks for the welcome :). I am watching season 2. I came out of season 1 (quite some time ago) on the fence re S Avery - at this stage am leaning a bit more towards him being guilty. Am only basing my opinion on what I have seen so far though - so am open to change. I must confess though I am finding SA a lot less likeable in this season - it's possible that this is having an impact on my judgement.

Like other posters above - I can totally "come to the party" that evidence was planted - but haven't been able to make the leap to police and co actually finding the body/car and manipulating the crime scene to the extent they would have had to do and that they also knowingly don't investigate a crime in order to frame Avery. And how else it could have been done escapes me. Will watch more today and see where KZ takes it.
Click to expand...


I like you already... you made me feel 10 years younger than I am :) (missy1974... but you can type missy1984 all you want :) or just missy ;-) )

The thing with SA is... he really isn't a great guy, I think it's crazy that women send him mail and whatever else they send him. I have been following since the first season came out, and I can see SA maybe being guilty, but then I have these moments of "no way". For example... that brain fingerprinting thing... KZ tells him that it's 100% accurate and whatever else she tells him about it... and he says "heck ya... I wanna do that"... if he was guilty, would he really want to? And so many things that don't add up for me... the bones not being investigated properly, the blood.

Oh and, whether SA is guilty or not. I don't for a minute believe Brendan is guilty. I have watched/read those interviews. It is heartbreaking. In the end, I would be okay if SA never got out, but Brendan is another story.

If you haven't already, check out www.stevenaverycase.org site. It has all the transcripts, exhibits, photo's, all the legal files. Personally, I like being able to read things for myself and not taking anyone's word for it ;-)
 
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