Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I don't need to read this statement back to myself.

no proof he didn't sexually assault her.
that is a fact.

no proof he did.
that is a fact also.

maybe you need to read it back again to yourself.

So the notion of innocent until proven guilty is lost on you then. This is the problem with the people involved in this case. He’s guilty and until we are convinced otherwise he can rot in jail. Not he’s presumed innocent (which by law is what we are all instructed to do) and then let scientific facts prove he did it.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I

I agree
there is no plausible evidence it happened the way the prosecution stated.

doesnt convince me he is innocent though.
there isn't evidence to suggest anyone else pulled it off and framed him.

I agree with you. I have always said I can’t say who did it. But that’s the point and seeing people say “oh he definitely did it”.. there’s no definitely about anything. Scary.

 

[k-mac]

So the notion of innocent until proven guilty is lost on you then. This is the problem with the people involved in this case. He’s guilty and until we are convinced otherwise he can rot in jail. Not he’s presumed innocent (which by law is what we are all instructed to do) and then let scientific facts prove he did it.

please don't make assumptions on my behalf.
not at all.
the point made was there isn't proof either way that Teresa was or wasn't sexually assaulted.
it is fact unknown.
doesn't mean it didn't happen. doesn't mean it did.
what it does mean is it cant be used against avery because nobody can make a definitive conclusion about what happened.
that is the point.
NOBODY can answer this question.

I didnt imply he should be locked up and presumed guilty anywhere in my posts.

 

[RANCH]

I agree
there is no plausible evidence it happened the way the prosecution stated.

doesnt convince me he is innocent though.
there isn't evidence to suggest anyone else pulled it off and framed him.

I'm still waiting for evidence that someone else killed Teresa and Steven Avery was framed.

 

[k-mac]

I'm still waiting for evidence that someone else killed Teresa and Steven Avery was framed.

me too ranch...me too

 

[Karinna]

My big question in all of this case is Why Teresa Halbach? I'm sure she wasn't the only attractive female in MC? Why was she specifically targeted?
There is so much we don't know about her IMO.
Did she have a current boyfriend or love interest just prior to her being missing? Who on earth would have wanted to murder her?
Did she have any enemies in the area she lived?
Why did her ex boyfriend not even mention they had been a couple at one time to LE? Why did he move into her home just after she was found to be missing? Insert himself into the search for her etc?
So many questions about what exactly was going on there in that community, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

IMO this case was political and i think it went right up to the top.
Some very interesting info. out there about all the players, but don't know if i can link it here so i won't.
Any of you ever heard of the "Avery Law" enacted after SA's wrongful incarceration in the PB case? I hadn't heard of it before, and of course they changed that after SA was found guilty of TH's murder, but interesting stuff.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think that a possible motive would be that Steven Avery tried to sexually assault Teresa Halbach and when she fought back he killed her.

I agree. I don’t really care about the motive. It’s nice to know but it could have been anything. There is too much that lays this on Avery. Are you telling me that someone killed her to frame Avery? I don’t believed tj

So the notion of innocent until proven guilty is lost on you then. This is the problem with the people involved in this case. He’s guilty and until we are convinced otherwise he can rot in jail. Not he’s presumed innocent (which by law is what we are all instructed to do) and then let scientific facts prove he did it.

he is guilty because she was last seen on his property. He is guilty because her truck was found with her blood in it on his property. He is guilty because her bones were found in his burn pit after the witness Brendan dassey cooberates a fire that had garbage bags on it and then Steven had Brendan help him collect more trash and put lots of things on top of the garbage bags which held Theresa with Brendan and then burned the pile. He is guilty because his dna is on her truck.
He is guilty because he is guilty. I don’t care about the charges of sexual assault so much because the evidence is only in Brendan’s words. However he gave details he would only know if he was there. I believe some of what he is saying is truth and some is not.
But the evidence points to no one but Steve Avery with the assistance of Brendan at the burn pile.
For anyone to believe this was a frame job would have to believe some followed Teresa, murdered her. Put her in her car, burned her in a fire on Steven Avery’s property at the same time he was having a fire and then parked her truck there. Dropped her key in his house, and never left any of their own dna or evidence.

I believe Steven Avery is a damaged man. Even in the letter he writes to his ex there is explosive anger and rage.
It fits. All the evidence fits Steven Avery and no one else.

 

[proudfootz]

I find it interesting that suggesting a possible motive creates such backlash.

It is interesting - especially when the suspects admit the lawsuit is a legitimate motive to implicate Steven Avery in a crime (otherwise Pagel's pledge to keep Manitowoc law enforcement employees off the investigation makes no sense).

 

[proudfootz]

For anyone to believe this was a frame job would have to believe some followed Teresa, murdered her. Put her in her car, burned her in a fire on Steven Avery’s property at the same time he was having a fire and then parked her truck there. Dropped her key in his house, and never left any of their own dna or evidence.

SBM

I don't believe all the things you wrote, yet I also believe the evidence indicates Steven is innocent.

For example, I don't think Teresa's body was burned in Steven Avery's fire pit. And some well respected forensic experts concur with my opinion.

As a side note - you marvel that someone who might have planted the key didn't leave their DNA, yet you don't marvel that Teresa somehow didn't leave her own DNA on her own key and lanyard?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It is interesting - especially when the suspects admit the lawsuit is a legitimate motive to implicate Steven Avery in a crime (otherwise Pagel's pledge to keep Manitowoc law enforcement employees off the investigation makes no sense).

So the state murdered th to frame Steven Avery?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

SBM

I don't believe all the things you wrote, yet I also believe the evidence indicates Steven is innocent.

For example, I don't think Teresa's body was burned in Steven Avery's fire pit. And some well respected forensic experts concur with my opinion.

As a side note - you marvel that someone who might have planted the key didn't leave their DNA, yet you don't marvel that Teresa somehow didn't leave her own DNA on her own key and lanyard?

You believe that there wa a fire at SAs house that night and that even though bits of TH bones were found there that she was not burned there? So someone killed her, burned her on the same night he had a fire, then after he went to bed drove onto the property with a bag of bones and dropped them in the fire pit?
Come on.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

SBM

I don't believe all the things you wrote, yet I also believe the evidence indicates Steven is innocent.

For example, I don't think Teresa's body was burned in Steven Avery's fire pit. And some well respected forensic experts concur with my opinion.

As a side note - you marvel that someone who might have planted the key didn't leave their DNA, yet you don't marvel that Teresa somehow didn't leave her own DNA on her own key and lanyard?

EXACTLY.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

he is guilty because she was last seen on his property. He is guilty because her truck was found with her blood in it on his property. He is guilty because her bones were found in his burn pit after the witness Brendan dassey cooberates a fire that had garbage bags on it and then Steven had Brendan help him collect more trash and put lots of things on top of the garbage bags which held Theresa with Brendan and then burned the pile. He is guilty because his dna is on her truck.
He is guilty because he is guilty. I don’t care about the charges of sexual assault so much because the evidence is only in Brendan’s words. However he gave details he would only know if he was there. I believe some of what he is saying is truth and some is not.
But the evidence points to no one but Steve Avery with the assistance of Brendan at the burn pile.
For anyone to believe this was a frame job would have to believe some followed Teresa, murdered her. Put her in her car, burned her in a fire on Steven Avery’s property at the same time he was having a fire and then parked her truck there. Dropped her key in his house, and never left any of their own dna or evidence.

I believe Steven Avery is a damaged man. Even in the letter he writes to his ex there is explosive anger and rage.
It fits. All the evidence fits Steven Avery and no one else.[/QUOTE]

So a letter showing anger and rage means a person is a murderer? So what does that make BD then, who was trawling the internet searching for graphic images of death and torture? Who also lied on the stand about the last sighting of Teresa?

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I'm still waiting for evidence that someone else killed Teresa and Steven Avery was framed.

So you don’t think any of the “evidence” presented was in any way suspicious?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

SBM

I don't believe all the things you wrote, yet I also believe the evidence indicates Steven is innocent.

For example, I don't think Teresa's body was burned in Steven Avery's fire pit. And some well respected forensic experts concur with my opinion.

As a side note - you marvel that someone who might have planted the key didn't leave their DNA, yet you don't marvel that Teresa somehow didn't leave her own DNA on her own key and lanyard?

No I don’t. Because he could have cleaned it when he tossed it in his room. He could have thought that he couldn’t have left his own dna on it.
None of these people are bright bulbs. I think Steven Avery thought he was invincible. I don’t even think he knows how to differentiate between truth and lies anymore.
For anyone but him to do this people would have known TH plans and wanted to hurt SA so bad they would murder and torture this woman.
It makes no sense. If you took the first case away no one would think this guy was innocent. No one.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

please don't make assumptions on my behalf.
not at all.
the point made was there isn't proof either way that Teresa was or wasn't sexually assaulted.
it is fact unknown.
doesn't mean it didn't happen. doesn't mean it did.
what it does mean is it cant be used against avery because nobody can make a definitive conclusion about what happened.
that is the point.
NOBODY can answer this question.

I didnt imply he should be locked up and presumed guilty anywhere in my posts.

That’s fair enough. I guess I am putting myself in anyone’s shoes where something is being implied on the basis that we can’t prove he didn’t do it, when it should be geared towards proving they did. I actually agree with your thoughts above.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

No I don’t. Because he could have cleaned it when he tossed it in his room. He could have thought that he couldn’t have left his own dna on it.
None of these people are bright bulbs. I think Steven Avery thought he was invincible. I don’t even think he knows how to differentiate between truth and lies anymore.
For anyone but him to do this people would have known TH plans and wanted to hurt SA so bad they would murder and torture this woman.
It makes no sense. If you took the first case away no one would think this guy was innocent. No one.

But how does her DNA stay off the key but his stays on?

For me the biggest question is where is all the blood from the gruesome attack and murder that took place on the bed and in the garage? The best forensic team in the world would struggle to make all that disappear without a single trace.

Regardless of the first case I would still be looking at this thinking if that was me, I would not be a happy camper with what was being used against me. Reports not being filed, keys not being found until the 7th search, the bones weren’t even found during the first search of the barrel. Then the next minute they’re in the barrel.

I have no firm idea on who did this at all, I just don’t for one second believe what has been put forward as a case is actually what happened.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But how does her DNA stay off the key but his stays on?

For me the biggest question is where is all the blood from the gruesome attack and murder that took place on the bed and in the garage? The best forensic team in the world would struggle to make all that disappear without a single trace.

Regardless of the first case I would still be looking at this thinking if that was me, I would not be a happy camper with what was being used against me. Reports not being filed, keys not being found until the 7th search, the bones weren’t even found during the first search of the barrel. Then the next minute they’re in the barrel.

I have no firm idea on who did this at all, I just don’t for one second believe what has been put forward as a case is actually what happened.

Because SA could have cleaned the key. If he cleans it then her dna is gone. However he left his. It’s not rocket science. It’s actually a practical explanation.
This insane stretching and reaching for other ways the evidence could have been collected or attained reminds me of oj case. Thanksfully this jury was not as easily duped.

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

But how does her DNA stay off the key but his stays on?

For me the biggest question is where is all the blood from the gruesome attack and murder that took place on the bed and in the garage? The best forensic team in the world would struggle to make all that disappear without a single trace.

Regardless of the first case I would still be looking at this thinking if that was me, I would not be a happy camper with what was being used against me. Reports not being filed, keys not being found until the 7th search, the bones weren’t even found during the first search of the barrel. Then the next minute they’re in the barrel.

I have no firm idea on who did this at all, I just don’t for one second believe what has been put forward as a case is actually what happened.

Oh, but we're supposed to toss all that aside - SA is still guilty but it didn't necessarily happen in the manner that the DA put forth! No blood evidence was found in the trailer OR garage. But according to BD' "confession", they slit her throat and then choked her. Wouldn't that leave a little blood somewhere?
Maybe SA and BD are closet geniuses that cleaned up all the DNA except for that pesky valet key left out in the open (!) and the chap stick bullet, while leaving clothes on the floor, and clutter throughout the garage and trailer.