Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

(Well look what the cat dragged in..Hi Skibby! Missed you, glad to see you here despite the awful plane crash. Hope all is well. No arrest in Delphi yet. :( )

Ha! I’m never ever far away Marg! Yes, terrible tragedy. The Max is a beautiful aircraft, the LEAP engines are so quiet.

I’m hearing reports of an issue with its flight controls and rumours the aircraft requested to return moments before it crashed.
 
Debris and aircraft seats – thought to be from flight JT610 – have been found near an offshore refining facility near the crash, according to the state energy firm Pertamina, and reported by Reuters.

Lion Air crash: officials say 189 onboard lost flight JT610 – as it happened

I did see this mention of airplane seats being found but it wasn't mentioned again, so maybe it was incorrect.

They absolutely requested to return and the request was granted.

Lion Air crash: officials say 189 onboard lost flight JT610 – as it happened
 
“Agus Haryono, an operations official with Indonesia’s National Search and Rescue Agency, told reporters on Monday that police and military rescue divers had found part of what they believe to be the fuselage and were searching for more at a depth of around 130 feet, as well as on the water’s surface.”

—-

30plane-2-jumbo.jpg

A team collecting debris on Monday from the Lion Air flight off West Java in a photo made available by Basarnas, Indonesia’s search and rescue agency.CreditCreditIndonesian Search and Rescue Agency

Lion Air Plane With 189 People Crashes in Indonesia
 
Yikes. 13 minutes into the flight and already a request to return to an airport. I live within 30 minutes of where TWA 800 crashed. I hate hearing of these kinds of accidents- it had to have been terrifying. Should be interesting to hear of the cause...may all the victims be recovered & healing be easy for those affected.
 
Based on the (admittedly) small amount of information so far on what was happening on the flight, it seems like there was something severe going on vertical wise - after the call, it stayed low at 2K feet... then climbed to 5K feet, then back down and loss of communications. Busted windshield? Cockpit fire? Suicide attempt with struggle in cockpit?
 
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Sadly, there is no sign of survivors. The cause of the crash remains unclear.

The incident is reported to be the first major accident involving a Boeing 737 Max - an updated version of the 737.

The operational director of the search and rescue agency said, "We need to find the main wreckage. I predict there are no survivors, based on body parts found so far."

The Lion Air Chief Executive said the plane had an unspecified "technical issue" on a previous flight, but he said that this had been "resolved".

One newly married man’s wife was on board and making the journey for work. Twenty employees from Indonesia's finance ministry were also on board.

Lion Air operates domestic flights as well as international routes to South East Asia, Australia and the Middle East. It has had issues of safety and poor management in the past and was banned from flying into European airspace until 2016.

Passenger plane crashes in sea off Jakarta
 
Dozens of ships and hundreds of search officers are now on location in Karawang Bay off the coast of Jakarta - the last known point of contact of the plane.

They are trying to locate the main wreckage and the crucial flight data recorder that may provide answers as to why the plane crashed.

Lots of debris and personal belongings of passengers on the plane have already been recovered.

Images from the Lion Air plane crash
 
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“Flight #JT610 had a technical problem on the previous flight, but it had been resolved according to procedure” — #LionAir CEO
Nagarjun Dwarakanath on Twitter

Hope they give more specifics on the type of problem it previously had. I have to wonder if that original problem was never really fixed.

Maybe the plane being so new made it difficult for the maintenance crews to understand how to work on that original problem.

Hope we get more information. May be quite some time before anything is released or if we will ever hear more specifics.
 
Based on the (admittedly) small amount of information so far on what was happening on the flight, it seems like there was something severe going on vertical wise - after the call, it stayed low at 2K feet... then climbed to 5K feet, then back down and loss of communications. Busted windshield? Cockpit fire? Suicide attempt with struggle in cockpit?

My guess is that there was a struggle in the cockpit, but it was man verse machine. The aircraft was new and has an extremely sophisticated auto pilot. The planes can almost fly themselves. Normally, this is a good thing as it reduces pilot error.

But, poorly trained pilots are sometimes not fully informed about the auto pilot. As others mentioned, the airline has a history of safety issues which could include less than fully trained pilots. This possibility is increased by the fact that auto pilots are not always completely on or completely off. Rather, auto pilots can be partially on or partially off.

Then factor in the possibility of a partially on auto pilot leading to the pilots fighting each other while also fighting the auto pilot. In these cases, the pilots have only minutes to avoid a disaster by communicating effectively with each other, coordinating their efforts, then figuring out what is going on with the auto pilot.

Airlines train for these scenarios using simulators. But.... simulators are expensive to own or rent. Thus, some airlines are tempted to reduce simulator time.
 
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Lion Air plane crash: Six bodies found in sea off Jakarta, Indonesia
https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/28/asia/lion-air-plane-crash-intl/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

“The recovered bodies have been taken to a hospital in east Jakarta, said Bambang Suryo Aji, director of operations for Basarnas.
Aji told a news conference that rescue workers had found debris appearing to be the plane's tail. The main wreckage had still not been located.
Search and rescue teams were working against high waves and strong currents, in an area spanning 150 nautical miles, added Aji. Underwater robots were being used in the search effort.“
 
My guess is that there was a struggle in the cockpit, but it was man verse machine. The aircraft was new and has an extremely sophisticated auto pilot. The planes can almost fly themselves. Normally, this is a good thing as it reduces pilot error.

But, poorly trained pilots are sometimes not fully informed about the auto pilot. As others mentioned, the airline has a history of safety issues which could include less than fully trained pilots. This possibility is increased by the fact that auto pilots are not always completely on or completely off. Rather, auto pilots can be partially on or partially off.

Then factor in the possibility of a partially on auto pilot leading to the pilots fighting each other while also fighting the auto pilot. In these cases, the pilots have only minutes to avoid a disaster by communicating effectively with each other, coordinating their efforts, then figuring out what is going on with the auto pilot.

Airlines train for these scenarios using simulators. But.... simulators are expensive to own or rent. Thus, some airlines are tempted to reduce simulator time.

Over the last 6 months or so, I've been watching some videos showing what went wrong with several planes that crashed... from a cockpit and communications standpoint and I totally agree with you.

Suddenly shooting upward could be someone overriding the autopilot because they don't believe their vertical slope... only to go to extreme and have a stall out.

There was even one count where a pilot pushed forward on the stick to climb which is the total opposite of what they are supposed to do.

But if they did request permission to come back, I am guessing it was mechanical/electrical/fire/windshield related than an active deliberate fight in the cockpit.,
 
So sad. RIP to all of those on board and my thoughts are with the families. I am extremely scared of flying but just last weekend I took a small trip and the flight was great! I thought I had conquered my fears but..... this kind of thing just brings them back. I can't imagine.
 

Please recover the babies. I cannot even bear the thought of those babies out there alone. I hope by some miracle they were being worn by a parent and so they remain attached. I cannot even accept that they died scared and alone. :(


My guess is that there was a struggle in the cockpit, but it was man verse machine. The aircraft was new and has an extremely sophisticated auto pilot. The planes can almost fly themselves. Normally, this is a good thing as it reduces pilot error.

But, poorly trained pilots are sometimes not fully informed about the auto pilot. As others mentioned, the airline has a history of safety issues which could include less than fully trained pilots. This possibility is increased by the fact that auto pilots are not always completely on or completely off. Rather, auto pilots can be partially on or partially off.

Then factor in the possibility of a partially on auto pilot leading to the pilots fighting each other while also fighting the auto pilot. In these cases, the pilots have only minutes to avoid a disaster by communicating effectively with each other, coordinating their efforts, then figuring out what is going on with the auto pilot.

Airlines train for these scenarios using simulators. But.... simulators are expensive to own or rent. Thus, some airlines are tempted to reduce simulator time.

I totally agree. I think this will likely come down to pilot error, which the plane probably could have corrected if the pilot had not fought against it.

I think this will likely end up being another Air France 447 all over again. That one shows this can happen even without it being a low cost airline with an under trained crew. At least this one was quicker and found immediately. That is something for the families.

The Tragic Crash of Flight AF447 Shows the Unlikely but Catastrophic Consequences of Automation
 

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