SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

[kaen]

LE specifically said in the PC that the cross configuration is false and they were NOT positioned like that. I recommend watching the PC as it will probably clear up a lot of things for you.

The press conference did clear things up for me. I will say that NYPD press conferences are fairly easy to watch as they do not ever really tip their hand about things they don't want to say. It is clear that there were some issue in VA and that the privacy of these young women was paramount, which I appreciated.

 

[Gardener1850]

NYPD NEWS on Twitter

Video of police press conference. Not sure if link will open up in this website.

I feel the tweet that accompanies this video is a bit misleading. Those two sentences were said but not one after another. After saying "At this time, we have no credible info that any crime took place in NYC" he said "but it is still under investigation..." It's important to watch the entire video to get a feel for where they are with the case. JMO.

 

[bears10]

The press conference did clear things up for me. I will say that NYPD press conferences are fairly easy to watch as they do not ever really tip their hand about things they don't want to say. It is clear that there were some issue in VA and that the privacy of these young women was paramount, which I appreciated.

I agree. It would also really put an end to some of the continued speculation going on on the thread bc LE specifically addressed a lot of things that are still being questioned here.

 

[anya]

Just stumbled upon the below article on The Washington Post (dated today, Nov 02, 2018). I'm really not sure what to make of this other than it feels/seems like the investigators are missing some huge red flags, imho?
Anyhow...here's the link:
No indication Saudi sisters found dead and bound with duct tape in NYC were killed, authorities say
Apologies if this has already been posted here. Mods, please feel free to move this elsewhere more appropriate if this is in the wrong place.

 

[Alethea]

This gets more and more sad. I'm afraid they may have killed themselves just so we would find them and know what happened to them. Rather than them being disappeared back to Saudi Arabia like they never even existed. If they were taped "loosely" together like the press conference said, maybe they just wanted to be sure they were found together.

Tala, Rotana, you were important. You didn't deserve this. No one does.

 

[Shlock Homes]

To further discount the eyewitness who claims to have 'seen them' around 7am the same day, we need to go back to the science of the deceased bodies. When they were first spotted, they were floating in the water. You can see that information in this link from October 24th.
2 bodies bound together discovered floating in New York's Hudson River: Police
Add to that they were fully clothed, which would have added to the weight of their bodies.
Now if you want to time how long it takes for a drowning victim to float to the surface, here's a good article describing the biology behind drowning:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf
"if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights."
In other words, Rotana and Tala's bodies, taped together, and fully clothed, and taped together, could not have been seen floating in the water the same day they drowned. In fact, assuming the Hudson River is cold water, it would have been at least a week or two before their submerged bodies built up enough bacterial gases to float to the surface.
And what about their credit cards being used for the spending spree? We've heard of people's cards being stolen or used after they were dead. The police haven't confirmed the ladies were spotted anywhere. They only say their cards indicated someone was using them to purchase hotel stays and buying items.
For all we know, Rotana and Tala had been drowned since early October, based on decomposition sciences to account for their floating, fully clothed bodies.

 

[Dr. Benway]

Days go by, and I'm more strongly convinced this pair ended their own lives with each new one.

 

[Shlock Homes]

You have to look at the Hudson River tides not the East River tides. On that side of Manhattan, sunrise might be at 7:17 but that part of the island is hilly so the sun would still be below the buildings on the Hudson side.

Hudson River Tides Hudson, Hudson River, New York Tide Chart

2018-10-24 Wed 3:18 AM EDT 4.4 feet High Tide
2018-10-24 Wed 7:18 AM EDT Sunrise
2018-10-24 Wed 9:50 AM EDT -0.1 feet Low Tide
2018-10-24 Wed 12:47 PM EDT Full Moon
2018-10-24 Wed 3:31 PM EDT 4.8 feet High Tide
2018-10-24 Wed 5:59 PM EDT Sunset

Thanks for clarifying that. In the end, it doesn't really matter the time of the tides. I was trying to figure out how their bodies could have ended up on the rocks, forgetting that they were actually spotted floating in the river. By the time the police arrived, the tide had gone out and left their bodies on the rocks below the boardwalk. In order for their waterlogged, fully clothed bodies to float, they would have had to been dead more than a week.

I'd be interested in seeing a reenactment of how they were taped together exactly.

Yes, they haven't even given us a detailed description of how this would have been achieved. And how they would have reached the water with the duct tape on them. Their original theory was that they must have come off the George Washington Bridge, which was to account for the fact that they must have been dead for some time. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't confuse that amount of time that passed versus them being seen the same day.

 

[Inthedetails]

To further discount the eyewitness who claims to have 'seen them' around 7am the same day, we need to go back to the science of the deceased bodies. When they were first spotted, they were floating in the water. You can see that information in this link from October 24th.
2 bodies bound together discovered floating in New York's Hudson River: Police
Add to that they were fully clothed, which would have added to the weight of their bodies.
Now if you want to time how long it takes for a drowning victim to float to the surface, here's a good article describing the biology behind drowning:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf
"if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights."
In other words, Rotana and Tala's bodies, taped together, and fully clothed, and taped together, could not have been seen floating in the water the same day they drowned. In fact, assuming the Hudson River is cold water, it would have been at least a week or two before their submerged bodies built up enough bacterial gases to float to the surface.
And what about their credit cards being used for the spending spree? We've heard of people's cards being stolen or used after they were dead. The police haven't confirmed the ladies were spotted anywhere. They only say their cards indicated someone was using them to purchase hotel stays and buying items.
For all we know, Rotana and Tala had been drowned since early October, based on decomposition sciences to account for their floating, fully clothed bodies.

IIRC, they were not found in the water. They were found on rocks. When it was high tide, the water brought them to the rocky area and they were caught on the rocks or pilings when the water receded with the low tide. They might not have been floating yet, but instead, were caught on something that was exposed when the tide went out.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Thanks for clarifying that. In the end, it doesn't really matter the time of the tides. I was trying to figure out how their bodies could have ended up on the rocks, forgetting that they were actually spotted floating in the river. By the time the police arrived, the tide had gone out and left their bodies on the rocks below the boardwalk. In order for their waterlogged, fully clothed bodies to float, they would have had to been dead more than a week.



Yes, they haven't even given us a detailed description of how this would have been achieved. And how they would have reached the water with the duct tape on them. Their original theory was that they must have come off the George Washington Bridge, which was to account for the fact that they must have been dead for some time. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't confuse that amount of time that passed versus them being seen the same day.

I thought they were found caught on something, not floating.

But if they were floating, perhaps we need to consider the factors:
The Hudson at this section has very strong currents.
The Hudson has a tide.
There is a lot of river traffic, including huge barges that cause waves, etc.

In other words, the water is constantly moving and the movement is strong. Perhaps the regular time it takes for a body to float is different in turbulent waters.

IDK, but I'm not seeing any controversy in the situation any longer. I think the sisters ended their lives on their own.

jmo

 

[Shlock Homes]

IIRC, they were not found in the water. They were found on rocks. When it was high tide, the water brought them to the rocky area and they were caught on the rocks or pilings when the water receded with the low tide. They might not have been floating yet, but instead, were caught on something that was exposed when the tide went out.

jmo

The phone call to the police was done around 2:40pm to 3pm according to the various news outlets. The person had spotted them floating in the water, at high tide, which means their bodies had buoyancy that could only be brought about from decomposition. Their bodies could not have travelled from the offshore pilings to the rocks without having buoyancy.

 

[Inthedetails]

The phone call to the police was done around 2:40pm to 3pm according to the various news outlets. The person had spotted them floating in the water, at high tide, which means their bodies had buoyancy that could only be brought about from decomposition. Their bodies could not have travelled from the offshore pilings to the rocks without having buoyancy.

I'll have to trust you on that as it doesn't seem impossible to me. The "offshore pilings" are not actually that far from shore. But I'm not into quibbling over it as the case is solved, imo.

jmo

 

[Shlock Homes]

I don't know if this article was shared. It's from radaronline. And warning, it does show one of the bodies with the tape around them, but not clearly. You can see that they were bound fairly tight, with tape on the boots
Also their floating bodies would not have been seen if they were at about the spot their bodies were resting on the rocks. They would have had to been out further out from shore, which again points to them being in the water longer than just a few hours as recently drowned don't float.
Cops Seek Surveillance Video For Two Dead Sisters Found Bound By Duct Tape In River

 

[Periwinkl3]

In a story from theaustralian.com, April 2017, some distressing similarities: "A Saudi woman attempting to flee from her “abusive” family and seek asylum in Australia has reportedly been forcibly returned to Riyadh after being gagged, tied with duct tape and wrapped in a sheet by two uncles while on a stopover in the Philippines." (link won't work due to paywall)

 

[Snoopster]

I don't know if this article was shared. It's from radaronline. And warning, it does show one of the bodies with the tape around them, but not clearly. You can see that they were bound fairly tight, with tape on the boots
Also their floating bodies would not have been seen if they were at about the spot their bodies were resting on the rocks. They would have had to been out further out from shore, which again points to them being in the water longer than just a few hours as recently drowned don't float.
Cops Seek Surveillance Video For Two Dead Sisters Found Bound By Duct Tape In River

Thanks for the warning. While I didn't find the content extremely specific, I will never click on a radaronline article again. At the bottom they say that they pay for "juicy stories". Shameful.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Thanks for the warning. While I didn't find the content extremely specific, I will never click on a radaronline article again. At the bottom they say that they pay for "juicy stories". Shameful.

They are definitely known for their tmz-style stories. But I thought the article was important for the photo itself, just to get an idea of how at least one of the sisters was dressed, and the manner in which the tape was on her. I've seen video footage from about the same angle, but only showing the bodies already wrapped at carried out, so there must have been multiple media outlets filming.
Edit: By the way, if anyone isn't squeamish and wants to look at the photo in better detail, you just right click on the image and get the image info to see the url of the photo itself. It blows up big enough to fill the screen.

 

[Snoopster]

They are definitely known for their tmz-style stories. But I thought the article was important for the photo itself, just to get an idea of how at least one of the sisters was dressed, and the manner in which the tape was on her. I've seen video footage from about the same angle, but only showing the bodies already wrapped at carried out, so there must have been multiple media outlets filming.

I hope you know that my post wasn't a criticism of you, Shlock.

 

[Alethea]

They are definitely known for their tmz-style stories. But I thought the article was important for the photo itself, just to get an idea of how at least one of the sisters was dressed, and the manner in which the tape was on her. I've seen video footage from about the same angle, but only showing the bodies already wrapped at carried out, so there must have been multiple media outlets filming.

Edit: By the way, if anyone isn't squeamish and wants to look at the photo in better detail, you just right click on the image and get the image info to see the url of the photo itself. It blows up big enough to fill the screen.

I think a civilian in the area took pictures and camera phone video and sold it to Radar online. In the picture they posted in the upper left it looks like civilians looking down as it wasn't completely blocked off yet.

 

[madamx]

To further discount the eyewitness who claims to have 'seen them' around 7am the same day, we need to go back to the science of the deceased bodies. When they were first spotted, they were floating in the water. You can see that information in this link from October 24th.
2 bodies bound together discovered floating in New York's Hudson River: Police
Add to that they were fully clothed, which would have added to the weight of their bodies.
Now if you want to time how long it takes for a drowning victim to float to the surface, here's a good article describing the biology behind drowning:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf
"if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights."
In other words, Rotana and Tala's bodies, taped together, and fully clothed, and taped together, could not have been seen floating in the water the same day they drowned. In fact, assuming the Hudson River is cold water, it would have been at least a week or two before their submerged bodies built up enough bacterial gases to float to the surface.
And what about their credit cards being used for the spending spree? We've heard of people's cards being stolen or used after they were dead. The police haven't confirmed the ladies were spotted anywhere. They only say their cards indicated someone was using them to purchase hotel stays and buying items.
For all we know, Rotana and Tala had been drowned since early October, based on decomposition sciences to account for their floating, fully clothed bodies.

Really interesting post Shlock Holmes, thank you for this link, love it!!! Made me very interested in looking into the temps of the water for those days. Hope it helps.

I have personally always known that bodies that have gone in the East River during the freezing months pop up in April and May because of the temps getting warmer.. it happens every year here in NYC. I am assuming its the same with the Hudson since its only on the other side.

With that in mind I started thinking...The weather has been really weird for the last month .. Sometimes it dips to 40s (38 I believe was the lowest) and other days it has been in the 70s.


Now according to the link below, The water temp at Battery Park (which is on the Hudson) would of been approximately 58 degrees around Oct 24 according to this chart.

https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/cwtg/all_meanT.html​

According to this article, it says if the water is Below 39 degrees the bacteria cannot metabolize. But if its over 40 degrees it can make gasses and floats
Grim sign of Spring: This is why dead bodies float to surface of NYC waterways

"Bodies that have gone into the water in November, December and January when the water is cold, the bodies stay under the water until the water warms up enough," said Baden.

Baden says bodies are filled with bacteria.

"When the water is below 39 degrees Fahrenheit, bacteria can't metabolize in intestinal tracks. As the water gets up over 40 degrees, the bacteria starts making gases that causes the body to rise to the surface," adds Baden.

 

[OneEye]

Latest from the BBC:
No foul play in Saudi sisters' US deaths

I'm not sure everyone here will agree with their interpretation of what NYPD has said about the case. But I found the article interesting nonetheless.