AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[Stunned]

Didn't the neighbors say they saw her getting off the bus?

At other times, not specifically.

 

[BB71]

Denise Closs was devoted to family, filling her personal Facebook page with family photos, especially of her mother, Becky Naiberg, who died of cancer in 2016. Denise Closs took part in several fundraising events for the American Cancer Society in memory of her mother.

On her last day, Denise Closs spent the afternoon at a birthday party for one of her nephews. She brought gifts for everyone, not just for the birthday boy, according to the local newspaper, the Barron News-Shield.

***copied and pasted from article.

So Denise’s mom has passed on, and according to this article, Denise brought presents for everyone. Seems like someone with a huge heart... sad she was killed with so much anger and hate!

Could she have been killed by accident?

 

[jdglove]

A suggestion... There seem to be a lot of caring and frustrated members here who wish they could help. May I suggest something that an army of amateur web sleuths might be able to do that LE probably don't have the resources or interest in doing?

Read about the Jennifer Renee Short case (it has been mentioned here). The details of that crime and abduction are strikingly similar IMO, and that seems to be very rare. And Jennifer looks so much like Jayme it begs consideration. Jennifer's murderer got away clean 16 years ago. It's a long shot due to the time span but it is not impossible he may have repeated the crime. Perhaps there was someone living near the Shorts in 2002 who can be found to have been living near the Closs home recently, maybe someone with a relevant criminal record, maybe someone linked to vehicles similar to those sought out in the two crimes. It's a very tall order and a long shot, but it seems like something that a community of amateurs at their computers might be able to contribute.

(You'll note there was a person of interest in the Short case who it is hard to ignore, but I strongly suggest he not be considered. He would be 80 now and he was eventually cleared. But if someone got away clean, and the wrong person was suspected, it would not be inconceivable that they repeat. A warning: any link uncovered by web sleuthing will seem more relevant than it might actually be, and any person of interest you find should never be mentioned here or anywhere, but instead shared privately to the sheriff's tip line.)

If it sounds kind of crazy to link the two cases, that might be so. Another reason LE might not bother. But the Short case got a lot of attention, and it could even be an obsessed and deranged copycat.

Best wishes for Jayme's well-being and bringing the killer to justice.

 

[rsd1200]

I’ve followed this case since it happened, but haven’t posted because I really didn’t have anything helpful to add.

I’ve thought from the moment I heard about it that Jayme was the target. I’ve read all the theories on here and have just developed mine.

I believe this possibly could be a man who’s had an (obviously) unhealthy fixation on Jayme in the past that seemingly “moved on.” Maybe a dance teacher, church member, assistant coach, or school staff member who possibly lived in the area but moved away in the last 6 months to a year. Maybe Jayme’s mother and/or father noticed the unhealthy fixation and put some distance between him (I think it’s a him) and Jayme. Either stopped inviting them over, switched dance studios, or something of that nature and he took it as a rejection. Maybe something was even said to him by one of the parents, that they were concerned with his level of interest in their daughter, and he acted incredulous at the accusation and backed off but it made him really mad. That would explain the level of anger in the ambush and also the fact that both parents had to be killed (because he’d be the first suspect in their minds). In this scenario, I’m thinking he wouldn’t have officially crossed any lines already in the past, so to speak, but made Jayme and/or her parents uncomfortable. I have three daughters and I’ve noticed on certain occasions when a grown man takes an unusual level on interest in one of them. I was a victim of SA as a child so that is always on my radar.

Anyway, it sounds far fetched, but this was an especially horrific crime so I don’t think there’s a “normal” way of explaining it no matter how it happened. JMO and I wanted to throw it out there.

Same. I've thought this early on. She was in a lot of activities. If someone is standing around, a male, especially, who does not have a child, or relative, of their own participating, or practicing, then I'd find that odd. I don't mean, watching them perform a number, and moving on, but truly, only family really goes to see those events... They have to ask folks not to leave after their child has finished their performance.

 

[brando555]

Anyway, it sounds far fetched, but this was an especially horrific crime so I don’t think there’s a “normal” way of explaining it no matter how it happened. JMO and I wanted to throw it out there.

Not far fetched at all. That's been one of my theories as well. Jayme's pretty, quiet/shy, and seems to be good natured. Seems to me like the ideal type a predator would fixate on and feel like they could manipulate. Maybe the perp had delusions they could be together and if he took her parents out he could convince her that he loved her or whatever. To me it doesn't feel like some random serial killer. BTK did the same sort of thing where he would force himself in the house and take time tormenting his victims before killing everyone. It seems like James and Denise were killed quickly and with purpose and Jayme was spared for a reason. MOO, naturally, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. However, I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong either.

 

[Ellie1]

A suggestion... There seem to be a lot of caring and frustrated members here who wish they could help. May I suggest something that an army of amateur web sleuths might be able to do that LE probably don't have the resources or interest in doing?

Read about the Jennifer Renee Short case (it has been mentioned here). The details of that crime and abduction are strikingly similar IMO, and that seems to be very rare. And Jennifer looks so much like Jayme it begs consideration. Jennifer's murderer got away clean 16 years ago. It's a long shot due to the time span but it is not impossible he may have repeated the crime. Perhaps there was someone living near the Shorts in 2002 who can be found to have been living near the Closs home recently, maybe someone with a relevant criminal record, maybe someone linked to vehicles similar to those sought out in the two crimes. It's a very tall order and a long shot, but it seems like something that a community of amateurs at their computers might be able to contribute.

(You'll note there was a person of interest in the Short case who it is hard to ignore, but I strongly suggest he not be considered. He would be 80 now and he was eventually cleared. But if someone got away clean, and the wrong person was suspected, it would not be inconceivable that they repeat. A warning: any link uncovered by web sleuthing will seem more relevant than it might actually be, and any person of interest you find should never be mentioned here or anywhere, but instead shared privately to the sheriff's tip line.)

If it sounds kind of crazy to link the two cases, that might be so. Another reason LE might not bother. But the Short case got a lot of attention, and it could even be an obsessed and deranged copycat.

Best wishes for Jayme's well-being and bringing the killer to justice.

They actually just put out a new plea for info on the Short case yesterday. Does anyone think the timing could be related to Jayme Closs? That they’re asking for new information now due to the similarities (in the event of them being possibly connected)? Link: Investigators release new plea for help in Short Family Murder investigation

 

[Jax49]

They actually just put out a new plea for info on the Short case yesterday. Does anyone think the timing could be related to Jayme Closs? That they’re asking for new information now due to the similarities (in the event of them being possibly connected)? Link: Investigators release new plea for help in Short Family Murder investigation

No, the article was published on Oct. 1, well before the murders. moo

 

[Wrenny]

I think the guy had a planned hiding place where he is keeping her, like with the girl in the storage container Shayla Brown, or like Eliz Smart. It’s a shed or basement or old mine shack or something similar, very isolated.

There's lots of vacation cabins in Northern Wisconsin. There also used to be mining in Northern Wisconsin.

 

[Rainyday107]

A suggestion... There seem to be a lot of caring and frustrated members here who wish they could help. May I suggest something that an army of amateur web sleuths might be able to do that LE probably don't have the resources or interest in doing?

Read about the Jennifer Renee Short case (it has been mentioned here). The details of that crime and abduction are strikingly similar IMO, and that seems to be very rare. And Jennifer looks so much like Jayme it begs consideration. Jennifer's murderer got away clean 16 years ago. It's a long shot due to the time span but it is not impossible he may have repeated the crime. Perhaps there was someone living near the Shorts in 2002 who can be found to have been living near the Closs home recently, maybe someone with a relevant criminal record, maybe someone linked to vehicles similar to those sought out in the two crimes. It's a very tall order and a long shot, but it seems like something that a community of amateurs at their computers might be able to contribute.

(You'll note there was a person of interest in the Short case who it is hard to ignore, but I strongly suggest he not be considered. He would be 80 now and he was eventually cleared. But if someone got away clean, and the wrong person was suspected, it would not be inconceivable that they repeat. A warning: any link uncovered by web sleuthing will seem more relevant than it might actually be, and any person of interest you find should never be mentioned here or anywhere, but instead shared privately to the sheriff's tip line.)

If it sounds kind of crazy to link the two cases, that might be so. Another reason LE might not bother. But the Short case got a lot of attention, and it could even be an obsessed and deranged copycat.

Best wishes for Jayme's well-being and bringing the killer to justice.

Woah. I have been looking for cases that are similar and have yet to find any. I do not think it is far reaching to think they are related, even due to the time span, IMO. Quite a few of the DNA cases are showing us that many of these men have 20-30 year gaps between the first homicide and getting caught by modern forensics.
Good post.

Someone else on the thread asked about the car chase with the Dodge Challenger in MO, and that Challenger was white in color, just fyi.

 

[BB71]

You are right. Prob not a legal thing. I think the school superintendent first used the term “caretaker”. Mom had to say Jayme was living with aunt and gave her address as Jayme’s address in order for her to go to the other school. You don’t get to pick schools based on where your babysitter or “aftercare provider” lives.

Unless they have school choice in Cameron.

 

[Wrenny]

Possiblity random, but from the rapid way the perp shot Closs, got inside the house, dispatched the mom, possibly hung up the (real) 911 call, and then departed with Jayme in 4 minutes flat (I discount the neighbor hearing the kill shots at 12:30 a.m.), tells me this was a planned targeted mission carried out with military like precision. Lack of known internet trail points to someone local who possibly observed Jayme and became fixated on her.

7 minutes.
And, *maybe*.
Remember we also have this possibility on the table. Dad wasn't home, bad guy kicked the door in and took his sweet time with mom & Jayme, dad got home, saw the extra car & parked out of the way, saw the open door, didn't know what was up, came in the house, in the confusion someone dialed 911, bad guy ran outside, shot dad through the doorway, either before that or after that finished off mom, threw Jayme in the car and left. He could have been there for hours.

 

[EpiVox444]

A suggestion... There seem to be a lot of caring and frustrated members here who wish they could help. May I suggest something that an army of amateur web sleuths might be able to do that LE probably don't have the resources or interest in doing?

Read about the Jennifer Renee Short case (it has been mentioned here). The details of that crime and abduction are strikingly similar IMO, and that seems to be very rare. And Jennifer looks so much like Jayme it begs consideration. Jennifer's murderer got away clean 16 years ago. It's a long shot due to the time span but it is not impossible he may have repeated the crime. Perhaps there was someone living near the Shorts in 2002 who can be found to have been living near the Closs home recently, maybe someone with a relevant criminal record, maybe someone linked to vehicles similar to those sought out in the two crimes. It's a very tall order and a long shot, but it seems like something that a community of amateurs at their computers might be able to contribute.

(You'll note there was a person of interest in the Short case who it is hard to ignore, but I strongly suggest he not be considered. He would be 80 now and he was eventually cleared. But if someone got away clean, and the wrong person was suspected, it would not be inconceivable that they repeat. A warning: any link uncovered by web sleuthing will seem more relevant than it might actually be, and any person of interest you find should never be mentioned here or anywhere, but instead shared privately to the sheriff's tip line.)

If it sounds kind of crazy to link the two cases, that might be so. Another reason LE might not bother. But the Short case got a lot of attention, and it could even be an obsessed and deranged copycat.

Best wishes for Jayme's well-being and bringing the killer to justice.

Interesting thought... it's not likely but still possible those crimes are connected.. The perp may have been in his early 20s and lived in Virginia, and moved to Wisconsin/Minn at a later time, and decided to finally relive his 16 year old crime.. would put the theoretical perp around 38-40.

 

[Wrenny]

The parents deaths were ruled homicide by gunshot. No murder weapon was found.

Cause of death was gunshot. They never said whether they had other injuries. Since it was described as an especially bad crime scene, I wonder if one or both were injured in other ways before the killing shot. Or shot multiple times.
No gun was found. They haven't indicated if any other weapons were found.

 

[Wrenny]

Question for Wisconsin residents.

Does the Wisconsin State Police handle criminal matters or just traffic?

Does the county where this crime happened have a police/sheriffs department and if so do they have jurisdiction in this case?

Does Wisconsin have a State Bureau of Investigations?

What “outside” agencies came to town to help out?

State Patrol mission: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/about-wisdot/who-we-are/dsp/strategic-plan-2018-2023.pdf

Jurisdiction would be the sheriff's department because it was not in the city limits.

Yes. https://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/wscl/wisconsin-state-crime-laboratory-bureau
https://www.doj.state.wi.us/dci/division-criminal-investigation-dci

They have mentioned FBI, DCI, Barron PD, several FDs. Other LE agencies in Wisconsin sent help. The DNR also helped, one of their jobs in Wisconsin is to assist LE in emergencies.

 

[Wrenny]

Hi PommyMommy. Do you happen to have quick/handy links to photos of the doors? One in particular I'm trying to find is the one that appears to be wood, possible damage on the side, that was leaning inside the doorway while police were still processing evidence. I think it was a still shot from a news video.

 

[Wrenny]

The only way I see him answering the door is if he thought he knew who it was.

They didn't say he opened the door, but that he answered it. That could include going to the door and looking out the window, or shouting "get out of here" or whatever.

 

[BB71]

Wisconsin has what is called Open Enrollment and you can apply to attend school in a different district than the one you live in. So you can, in fact, apply to attend a school in a different school district. There are limits, of course, such as the number of non-resident students the district can take in.

Open Enrollment - General Information

Agreed, but to get school bus transportation I imagine you must “live” in the district.

 

[BB71]

Maybe the person didn't even knock. Maybe the perp(s) kicked in the door and James ran out to see what the noise was? Perhaps a brief struggle ensued and James was shot in the doorway. He seems like he was a big man and he had a family to protect. I can't see him running back into the bedroom if someone had just kicked in the door in a surprise attack. JMO.

BTW, did you happen to know the family Herb?
(Just wondering since your user name has Wis in it and you are calling James by his last name in a familiar way).

Maybe he was coming in the door.

 

[kkdj]

They actually just put out a new plea for info on the Short case yesterday. Does anyone think the timing could be related to Jayme Closs? That they’re asking for new information now due to the similarities (in the event of them being possibly connected)? Link: Investigators release new plea for help in Short Family Murder investigation

Looks like the article is from Oct. 1 2018, so it's prior to the Closs murders but I do find the similarities interesting.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Agreed, but to get school bus transportation I imagine you must “live” in the district.

Certainly. So, if we are to believe the neighbor in what she said about the school bus, then if the neighbor saw the school bus then it was for this school year as this year Jayme was attending the Barron School District (Riverview Middle School).