AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[SharonNeedles]

Thank you! What would buck shot look like shot from a distance? Say 10 feet or so. Just thinking.

At 10 feet the pattern would be so tight it would look like 1 big impact, maybe 3 inches in diameter.

 

[Jabarn]

At 10 feet the pattern would be so tight it would look like 1 big impact, maybe 3 inches in diameter.

Just trying to understand... thanks... and birdshot? Sorry- that will be my last question on how the chair could have been wounded.

To be fair, I just can’t wrap my mind around how the gun damage happened on that particular part of the chair and it wasn’t blown apart. Need slow and careful explanation.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I just saw this article that came out an hour ago. It answers a few questions:

Investigators regroup to review leads in Jayme Closs mystery

BBM First time I've seen a road or direction (East to West) mentioned:
"A video team, working for the FBI in Milwaukee, is assembling images of vehicles that were traveling along Hwy. 8 from Barron to Turtle Lake the morning of the homicides to see if it can help."

 

[SharonNeedles]

ETA: just googled the difference between birdshot and buckshot.

Birdshot would look a whole lot different, there’s no mistaking it.

 

[1987]

how thick do we think the bottom in that chair is? mine is about 1.5 inches that looks like that same style. but I don't know what others chairs like that look like as for thickness.

 

[cody22]

Just trying to understand... thanks... and birdshot? Sorry- that will be my last question on how the chair could have been wounded.

To be fair, I just can’t wrap my mind around how the gun damage happened on that particular part of the chair and it wasn’t blown apart. Need slow and careful explanation.

At close range (6 to 20 feet approx.) a 4-12 inch front section of the edge of that chair would look like it had been chewed and splintered by little teeth. A probably (9mm up to 45 caliber handgun bullet) made that impression on that chair edge, as written earlier by SharonNeedles.

 

[cody22]

how thick do we think the bottom in that chair is? mine is about 1.5 inches that looks like that same style. but I don't know what others chairs like that look like as for thickness.

That is probably correct.

 

[Gardener1850]

BBM First time I've seen a road or direction (East to West) mentioned:
"A video team, working for the FBI in Milwaukee, is assembling images of vehicles that were traveling along Hwy. 8 from Barron to Turtle Lake the morning of the homicides to see if it can help."

That was the direction of the first volunteer search-- a 14 mile stretch of Hwy 8 from east to west.

 

[Ommmm]

If the call went out at the beginning of the crime, then I imagine Jayme woke to hearing her father killed, ran to mom and sought protection - and I don't want to imagine how it unfolded there. He wouldn't comment on whether a sexual assault took place during the attack which was interesting when he implied today the perp was in an out within a few minutes. Doesn't seem like a sexual assault could have taken place in the time frame of 4 minutes - does it? So what might have made the mattress removed from the house significant?

Right. He wouldn’t have been giving that analogy of not leaving much evidence behind, if they knew there were a sexual assault.

 

[bizzle2]

I doubt the crime scene would have been discovered until the school had made a few calls and someone finally checked the house, unless one of the parents had the early shift. And even then, it probably would be an hour or two after schdule time before worry really set in. So a good 9+ hour lead?

Yet it does not seem to matter...4 minutes or 9 hours...jmo

Part of what I'm getting at...and I'm not totally convinced that it was planned or not. But if it was planned (and again, if it was a plan, there are still many directions it could go), wouldn't the night be the ideal time to take Jayme?

If you take her during the day, someone would notice pretty quickly.

Take her at night. No one notices (other than her parents, who are killed while you take her) until the morning.

If you want to take her and have a chance to get far away before anyone notices, is there a better time to do it than late at night?

 

[sbsuzilight]

Oh man the 4 minute comment of the sheriff is cringing.

• 10/15/18 00:31 - Neighbors report hearing two loud gunshots within a few seconds [27]
• 10/15/18 00:53:26 - 911 call received per dispatch log [22]
• 10/15/18 00:56:01 - dispatched units to residence [22]
• 10/15/18 01:00:30 - dispatched units arrive on scene. [22]

And remember that the struggle was already happening when the 911 call got received.

Again such a interesting case here. I only hope she will be found.

How would the sheriff possibly know that the killer was in the house 4 minutes? I don’t see how he can know that unless on the 911 call the killer had just entered?

 

[Gardener1850]

how thick do we think the bottom in that chair is? mine is about 1.5 inches that looks like that same style. but I don't know what others chairs like that look like as for thickness.

I own a similar chair. I just went and measured and my chair seat is only 1 inch thick. I suppose there is some variation. Mine is Amish made and solid oak.

 

[1987]

That is probably correct.

in comparison how big do we think the bullet is, 1/4 the thickness, 1/2 the thickness, so on..?

 

[bizzle2]

How would the sheriff possibly know that the killer was in the house 4 minutes? I don’t see how he can know that unless on the 911 call the killer had just entered?

That's part of what he's getting at. The crime started very shortly after the 911 call began

 

[Jabarn]

At close range (6 to 20 feet approx.) a 4-12 inch front section of the edge of that chair would look like it had been chewed and splintered by little teeth. A probably (9mm up to 45 caliber handgun bullet made that impression on that chair edge, as written earlier by SharonNeedles.

So does it make sense the chair was shot by a lose bullet from a handgun? The reason I keep asking these dumb questions is evident I am dumb on guns!

Still thinking. How did the chair have the trajectory of the bullet going from the bottom side of the chair. What do you all think?

 

[CuriousMaine]

I hope he does have a long record and had to give his DNA along the line...in case nothing else breaks for them. Sometimes it seems like it can take a while get replies from CODIS...months for cold cases, i.e on the old show “Cold Case Files” it took up to a year. But hopefully not for an active one like this.

After listening to the Sheriff's interview with Dryden today, I'm worried they might be in the system but LE hasn't identified any DNA sources at the scene.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Just trying to understand... thanks... and birdshot? Sorry- that will be my last question on how the chair could have been wounded.

To be fair, I just can’t wrap my mind around how the gun damage happened on that particular part of the chair and it wasn’t blown apart. Need slow and careful explanation.

The damage you see on that chair, if it is indeed a gunshot, is from a single projectile.

A shotgun slug would be a single projectile, but much larger than the damage shown. And with enough impact to rip that seat apart - a whole lot worse than what’s shown.

A shotgun with 00 buckshot would have 8 projectiles, tightly grouped. I would expect to see either multiple points of impact, or perhaps what would appear to be one really big point of impact.

A shotgun with birdshot would have a lot of very small projectiles. No idea how many, I’ve never counted them. It would leave a big area of damage but not a lot of penetration.

I’m thinking a handgun, maybe somewhere between a 9mm and .40 cal. A single bullet, maybe as round as your little finger, that would pass through that chair from front to back at an upward angle.

And due to that angle, I don’t think the chair was sitting on the floor like a chair is supposed to be sitting when it was hit.

 

[cody22]

in comparison how big do we think the bullet is, 1/4 the thickness, 1/2 the thickness, so on..?

My guess at the 1 1/2" thickness is .35 to .45 of an inch in diameter.....This is also around the same as posted earlier by SharonNeedles...... That great photo he posted has probably solved the type of weapon used and the possible calibers.

 

[Jabarn]

The damage you see on that chair, if it is indeed a gunshot, is from a single projectile.

A shotgun slug would be a single projectile, but much larger than the damage shown. And with enough impact to rip that seat apart - a whole lot worse than what’s shown.

A shotgun with 00 buckshot would have 8 projectiles, tightly grouped. I would expect to see either multiple points of impact, or perhaps what would appear to be one really big point of impact.

A shotgun with birdshot would have a lot of very small projectiles. No idea how many, I’ve never counted them. It would leave a big area of damage but not a lot of penetration.

I’m thinking a handgun, maybe somewhere between a 9mm and .40 cal. A single bullet, maybe as round as your little finger, that would pass through that chair from front to back at an upward angle.

And due to that angle, I don’t think the chair was sitting on the floor like a chair is supposed to be sitting when it was hit.

I see it better now, and thank you.

 

[callyn]

So does it make sense the chair was shot by a lose bullet from a handgun? The reason I keep asking these dumb questions is evident I am dumb on guns!

Still thinking. How did the chair have the trajectory of the bullet going from the bottom side of the chair. What do you all think?

If the bullet entered the bottom of the chair, maybe the chair was being held up as a shield.