AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[SeattleStew]

Is the type of gun Sharon talked about one that is purchased for conceal carry?

Easily concealed in waistband of pants.

 

[cj1132]

Interesting.I lived in MN in the country, Guns are expensive as well as is the ammo so people I know have a rifle or shotgun because they hunt.

My ex-husband is an avid hunter and I think he uses a .22 pistol for small game hunting. He also has rifles and shotguns. He's in Wisconsin.

 

[SeattleStew]

My ex-husband is an avid hunter and I think he uses a .22 pistol for small game hunting. He also has rifles and shotguns. He's in Wisconsin.

Whatever hit that chair was bigger than a .22. Probably.38 or 9mm.

 

[human]

Here is info on texts and cell phone companies. It is from 2011. I keep searching for how long it takes for LE to get cell records and I am not having luck.

How Long Does Your Wireless Carrier Retain Texts, Call Logs?

 

[CuriousMaine]

Article from three years ago, using statistics two years earlier. That is five years removed from 2018.

Plus, I have never been fond of relying on statistics for anything, having seen how cherry picked and manipulated data is logged...I have done it myself.

The real evidence is based on current events and factual evidence. I believe based on home invasions, abductions, increased violence in society, that things are worse now than ever.

The FBI tracks crime data. Although it appears there has been a slight increase since 2014 (comparatively), in 2016 you were almost half as likely to be murdered or kidnapped, raped, etc. than in the mid 70's when violent crime peaked.

The different "feeling" from now vs then, IMO is social media and 24 hour cable news. If it bleeds, it leads.

 

[human]

are the apps that teens get free?

 

[cluciano63]

I think seemingly sweet/innocent kids are often the ones who can have the most surprising online activity. Take it from me. When I was a teenager, I was shy, quiet, and a teacher's pet. My online activity would have shocked anyone in my real life circle - and this was before smartphones, back when forums and chats were primarily used. Still, my parents had no idea of my online activity. Today, it's even scarier, since there are hundreds of apps available for teens that adults don't know about. They're always coming up with something new, and it would be impossible for law enforcement to track some of that unless they're able to access every single device Jayme has used, and even then, it can be difficult.

Ultimately, I don't think her online activity is the reason for her parents' murder and her disappearance - I truly don't, because it rarely is the reason. It's always the first question asked, but it's rarely the case. Could she have been talking to someone online who was 19? Sure. Girls her age are often talking to other teens with similar interests, and she may have formed a close-knit relationship with someone on an app. What's scary is my boyfriend's 7-year-old niece is on some of these apps, and she has "friends" of all ages. Online dating/relationships are so frequent among teens these days. They're usually harmless (of course the select times they're not). Online activity rarely solves disappearance cases from the cases I've followed over the years.

It is defintely possible...and a shy, private teen might not tell anyone if she was communicating with an older male. Or there may have been a guy who claimed to be 19 but is really much older, unknown to her, and a predator. I think the more innocent are more apt to be tricked, though anyone could be.

Whether or not there is a “19-year old” a rumor must have grown from something as it is rather specific. I just wish LE had said they have no evidence of any boyfriend of any age...

 

[cluciano63]

are the apps that teens get free?

Most are, at least a basic version. You pay for upgrades etc...

 

[CuriousMaine]

Is the type of gun Sharon talked about one that is purchased for conceal carry?

I missed the specifics, can you elaborate, or link? Everything I've seen Sharon talk about sounds plausible to me.

 

[MsBetsy]

I missed the specifics, can you elaborate, or link? Everything I've seen Sharon talk about sounds plausible to me.

Just going by my memory I think he said a 33 magnum but I know nothing about guns. I just remember a 3.

 

[MassGuy]

The FBI tracks crime data. Although it appears there has been a slight increase since 2014 (comparatively), in 2016 you were almost half as likely to be murdered or kidnapped, raped, etc. than in the mid 70's when violent crime peaked.

The different "feeling" from now vs then, IMO is social media and 24 hour cable news. If it bleeds, it leads.

Exactly. “Feeling less safe” doesn’t mean that you actually are.

Many people used to live in blissful ignorance of the world around them. Predators exited then, as they exist now.

We are just more aware of their presence.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Sharon Needles description resulted in a decision that the weapon was a handgun.

I think a lot of people in rural Wisconsin have a rifle and a shotgun. I think a handgun is more unusual.

I know some people will argue a handgun is used to finish off an animal.

To me, a handgun is for killing people.

Is the kind of gun described by Sharon one people carry comfortably or is it large?

There are a ton of variables, but first let me clarify: if (and that’s still a big “if” as far as I’m concerned) the damage caused to that chair was from a gunshot, we can narrow down to what type of weapon could cause that damage. And first we can positively rule out a shotgun.

To be clear here, I’m saying this looks to me to be damage from a handgun cartridge, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a handgun. For example, a 9mm is a very common handgun cartridge and 9mm handguns are plentiful - but there are rifles that fire that cartridge as well. A 9mm rifle is certainly less common than a handgun, but they’re not rare by any means.

The damage to that chair could have come from either a handgun or a rifle. I’m comfortable ruling out the big rifle calibers like a 30-06, but I wouldn’t rule out the smaller rifle calibers like a .223 / 5.56x45 (ammo used in an AR15).

Even if we knew this damage was from a 9mm it would be impossible to ascertain whether it was fired from a handgun or a rifle. But I would say a handgun is much more likely both because they’re more common and easier to carry/transport/conceal.

 

[pepper 34]

Sharon Needles description resulted in a decision that the weapon was a handgun.

I think a lot of people in rural Wisconsin have a rifle and a shotgun. I think a handgun is more unusual.

I know some people will argue a handgun is used to finish off an animal.

To me, a handgun is for killing people.

Is the kind of gun described by Sharon one people carry comfortably or is it large?

I don't know very much about guns but I fired a 45 one time when I was young. The kick back was so strong I found myself shooting... well, seemed like at about a 85 degree angle up at the sky after pointing at a paper target right in front of myself. I had been instructed to hold the gun straight out with a firm arm while supporting the the other hand/arm and to expect a kick back but nothing prepared me for the way that thing pulled back like a kick from a horse. Sore shoulder and elbow resulted. I'm not a large or strong person. That's my extent of any "experience" using a gun. We were literally in the middle of Nowhere, New Hampshire so nobody else was around, luckily.

 

[gipsypup]

At this time I'm hoping that my theory is correct that a young man with romantic interest in Jayme has her. Maybe she was moved to another school as a way for her parents to separate them. Being forbidden to see her could have enraged him into killing the parents and taking her. Maybe he thinks so much of her that he will not harm her.
You can only hope that this is the case.

True. Has anyone wondered why would the Closs family move an 8 min drive away from their previous home in Cameron to follow the caregiver? It is pretty extreme to move down the road and have a teen switch schools due to a caregiver . Jayme is 13. How much longer will she really need a caregiver .
Although I’m sure the aunt was a great caregiver , I’m due she didn’t monitor Jayme’s every move. Jayme could have had a lot of time to be on SM. We also know nothing in regards to where the aunt lived , did she have other teens around etc..

 

[CuriousMaine]

Just going by my memory I think he said a 33 magnum but I know nothing about guns. I just remember a 3.

hmmm, maybe .38? .33 is not a round I'm familiar with

"Magnum" just means larger (brass shell) casing. You can't tell by the bullet if the case is Magnum, not with the naked eye. Maybe a ballistics lab could tell, IDK.

Yes, .38 or a .38 Magnum are commonly used concealed carry handgun round. Not the most popular perhaps. It's very close in diameter size to 9mm. The .38 Magnum is a common revolver caliber. I don't see a criminal planning a crime like this with a revolver.

 

[MsBetsy]

There are a ton of variables, but first let me clarify: if (and that’s still a big “if” as far as I’m concerned) the damage caused to that chair was from a gunshot, we can narrow down to what type of weapon could cause that damage. And first we can positively rule out a shotgun.

To be clear here, I’m saying this looks to me to be damage from a handgun cartridge, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a handgun. For example, a 9mm is a very common handgun cartridge and 9mm handguns are plentiful - but there are rifles that fire that cartridge as well. A 9mm rifle is certainly less common than a handgun, but they’re not rare by any means.

The damage to that chair could have come from either a handgun or a rifle. I’m comfortable ruling out the big rifle calibers like a 30-06, but I wouldn’t rule out the smaller rifle calibers like a .223 / 5.56x45 (ammo used in an AR15).

Even if we knew this damage was from a 9mm it would be impossible to ascertain whether it was fired from a handgun or a rifle. But I would say a handgun is much more likely both because they’re more common and easier to carry/transport/conceal.

I knew there was a 3 in there somewhere. Guess I was a little off... oh well.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I knew there was a 3 in there somewhere. Guess I was a little off... oh well.

No, I probably said I think it’s at minimum a 38. If I didn’t say it I was at least thinking it. ;-)

 

[BIC]

hmmm, maybe .38? .33 is not a round I'm familiar with

"Magnum" just means larger (brass shell) casing. You can't tell by the bullet if the case is Magnum, not with the naked eye. Maybe a ballistics lab could tell, IDK.

Yes, .38 or a .38 Magnum are commonly used concealed carry handgun round. Not the most popular perhaps. It's very close in diameter size to 9mm. The .38 Magnum is a common revolver caliber. I don't see a criminal planning a crime like this with a revolver.

I believe the opposite in regards to a planned crime like this. If it was a well planned out crime, at least if I was planning it, I’d plan to leave as little evidence as possible, including she’ll casings. IMO

 

[CuriousMaine]

True. Has anyone wondered why would the Closs family move an 8 min drive away from their previous home in Cameron to follow the caregiver? It is pretty extreme to move down the road and have a teen switch schools due to a caregiver . Jayme is 13. How much longer will she really need a caregiver .
Although I’m sure the aunt was a great caregiver , I’m due she didn’t monitor Jayme’s every move. Jayme could have had a lot of time to be on SM. We also know nothing in regards to where the aunt lived , did she have other teens around etc..

I don't believe they did. We've discussed at length. The caregiver moved, so Jayme changed schools, perhaps to be able to take a bus to the caregiver's house, etc.

 

[CuriousMaine]

No, I probably said I think it’s at minimum a 38. If I didn’t say it I was at least thinking it. ;-)

Thanks, Sharon. I agree with that. And yes, that is a common concealed handgun round, MsBetsy.