Questions you'd like answers to...

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, that is interesting. So maybe the blow to the head happened in or around JonBenet's bedroom? There was some discussion about there maybe being blood on a pillow. That IS odd that there would be a barbell in there. I came across OTG's thread about the weapon, so I am trying to read through that right now. This OTG is brilliant (as are you)..but a lot of this technical stuff is going over my head. I was thinking about golf clubs, but the CBS show likes the flashlight. For some reason, the flashlight isn't ringing true for me, but what do I know. .. Let me go do some more reading...

NanaNZA,
Yes, otg is brilliant, he pops in from time to time. I reckon JonBenet was whacked on the head upstairs, probably her bedroom, maybe Burke's who knows?

To factor in the head blow you have to work out if it was :

1. Accidental.

2. Premeditated.

3. Reflex Action.

1. Feeds into the bedwetting theory by Thomas. et al

2. Means it was planned up front to incapacitate JonBenet using Blunt Force Trauma.

3. Suggests it was a spur of the moment response to say silence JonBenet.

There is nothing to prevent asphyxiation preceding blunt force trauma, the order of events does not bias the outcome, so it really comes down to how you think it all hangs together?

.

 

[NanaNZA]

@NanaNZA
supposedly the blow to the head was bloodless... can somebody confirm that?

also, i find it interesting that there seems to have been so much fuzz about "jonbenet wet herself" even to the point of saying it might have ticked off PR. still, burke's feces-smearing activities... who cares, right? ... on jonbenets box of candys.. ?

Leslievernon, the blow to the head itself was bloodless, but I have heard mention that a victim of a blow to the head can bleed from their nose, or ear or mouth..maybe one of the experts here can chime in to help us out...... I don't even know what to say about the feces-smearing.

 

[NanaNZA]

UK, alas, it is one question after another. I obsess about one aspect and when I can handle it no more, I obsess about a different aspect. Some aspects we get pretty confident about, then someone comes along with a monkeywrench and sets you back to square one. I'm not sure I buy into the bedwetting theory, but I respect Steve Thomas for his passion to find justice in this case.

 

[UKGuy]

UK, alas, it is one question after another. I obsess about one aspect and when I can handle it no more, I obsess about a different aspect. Some aspects we get pretty confident about, then someone comes along with a monkeywrench and sets you back to square one. I'm not sure I buy into the bedwetting theory, but I respect Steve Thomas for his passion to find justice in this case.

NanaNZA,
Sure, given the amount of violence JonBenet was subjected to, its all premeditated even if its out of anger, how else can you explain all her injuries?

No Intruder intent on kidnapping JonBenet needs to inflict all those injuries then leave JonBenet's body behind in the wine-cellar, that means no exchange for cash can be done.

I definitely do not think Patsy assaulted JonBenet for wetting the bed.

.

 

[Unsuremilocat]

This could have happened. Tho, JR seems to get a pass here from many many people, in this regard.

Question is WHY?

Remember: the comments to have been made by PR and JR at the Fernies.

-we didn't mean for this to happen-PR

-I'm sorry, I'm so sorry-JR

What happened and why was JR so sorry?

IMO I think he was apologizing for what he did to her, for what he felt he had to do. I also think that the heart drawn in her hand was from her mother. I think something happened with Burke and JB and it ended badly leading up to the parents covering up. I think it happened early enough into the night that after it happened, PR and JR grieved. I most definitely believe they were apart of it, BUT by no means to I think it was intentional. I think it was sibling molestation that turned tragic enough for the parents to cover it up to save a child. I also think that because of there social and wealth status, they could defend themselves to live free with no questions asked.

 

[Unsuremilocat]

Paperdoll,you made a good point about the fact that if the neighbor supposedly heard a scream,why didn't she call the police? probably because she never did hear one---on the other hand,there are many "Kitty Genovese" stories,where people hear screams and don't care---for those who don't know,Kitty Genovese was beaten and then murdered in NYC in 1964--despite dozens of people hearing her screams,no one called the police--Its the most infamous case of people "not wanting to get involved" there was--but there are many others--The Wonderland murders in Los Angeles where four people were beaten to death in revenge for robbing a drug dealer had several people hearing screams but none called the cops

IMO M. Stanton was the one who heard the scream when she initially told authorities, she later took it back. Why? She was probably told to keep quiet.

 

[Unsuremilocat]

I'm thinking it was an object in the windowless room. The police took a large piece of sheet metal during their search. You can see it in one of the photos. If that had to be moved, i.e. slid out of the way, it could make a metal-scraping-on-concrete sound.

Someone else has speculated that it was the paint cans being slid over.

What about the grate that Fleet white was moving back into place when JR found JBs body

 

[Unsuremilocat]

That's another hinky spot for me! (my hinky meter is getting a work out today)

This no video that year makes me wonder who else was in the house that the Ramsey's didn't want known. I take that a step further and think that their suspicious behaviour points to either them doing it, or covering up for someone they know. Now, who would they cover for? A family member. Who would be on a Christmas video that they don't want seen? A family member. The only family members I can think of that would fit is Patsy's Dad or JAR. Both of which, as far as I know, have alibi's.

I have always wondered this too! I read somewhere sometime that JAR semen was found on a blanket inside the suitcase along with something else. Can’t remember. I know they had alibis but how do we know the chronic abuse wasn’t anyone there that night???

 

[Unsuremilocat]

Did you see a picture of the camera set up?

Do you remember reading, where JonBenet hadn't been too thrilled with the 'MyTwins Doll'? I believe PR thought this present was the cat's meow.

Could it be, there was a terrible incident on the video tape, about the doll, which the R's didn't want anybody to see? Maybe PR or JR lost their composure. Could there have been a very nasty encounter, the R's were hiding?

Could you elaborate on the doll? I don’t understand

 

[Userid]

It actually derived from an obsessive and meticulous look at all of the evidence. You see what you want to see.

That is indeed true and my exact point.

If you look at the evidence, there is much more "concrete" evidence that points to both PR and JR, before BR. But like you say, some will see what they want to see.

 

[Cottonstar]

That is indeed true and my exact point.

If you look at the evidence, there is much more "concrete" evidence that points to both PR and JR, before BR. But like you say, some will see what they want to see.

I disagree. If you take a step back and look at the totality of all of the evidence that is known, it leaves no doubt to who the person responsible for her death is.

 

[Userid]

I disagree. If you take a step back and look at the totality of all of the evidence that is known, it leaves no doubt to who the person responsible for her death is.

Agree to disagree. Completely

 

[Unsuremilocat]

These are my own questions, my own opinions and things I’ve noticed while researching this case. Feel free to give it a read and let me know what you think. Sorry in advance for the length.

First off, calling your friends over to contaminate the crime scene. Big red flag. If IDI how would he know what staircase she would come down? Why use Patsy’s notepad and marker; why would there be a need to practice it and on top of that why change the way the letter was started just to address JR. An advantage of Patsy writing the note; she would be in charge of what it said giving the evidence of it being practiced first in addressing the Ramsey’s. Being the author it gave her control to exclude herself. The time between the 911 call and the first officer arriving was only a couple minutes. So how did John manage to do all the things he said he did after Patsy yelled for him. Another question I had is what did pasty really do? She stated several times she didn’t know whether she went upstairs for John to read it or if she screamed. She said she didn’t read the whole thing but was able to recite some things said in the note. If IDI, why would he stay so long and risk being caught? The fact that the Ramsey’s were persistent in saying Burke was in bed the whole time and that JB was asleep and put to bed as soon as they got home is not plausible. PR and JR claimed that they dropped presents off at two different houses on the way home, but BR stated that they went straight home which gives more time for something to happen. The Ramsey’s were unable to keep their story straight when it came to recollecting certain significant details sent alarms off in my head. You can clearly hear another small voice in the 911 recording. Also JR stated that he was working on a model with Burke and after they both went to bed. Where’s said model? and during BR interview he stated he stayed up to finish the model after Everyone went to bed. Moving in to the pineapple, a ghost didn’t make the tea or the bowl so BR or PR did. Patsy claimed that she would hear cabinets being opened in the night even though she would be on the 3RD floor when the kitchen was on the first floor. Unless they squeak loudly. That’s bs. Burke’s interviews are full of behavioral clues along with PR and JRs interview. Why did patsy lie about the clothes JB was dressed in?Why would burke say John came to wake him up if JR said he didn’t. Why would John fail to mention the things he “noticed on his search of the house” when FW noticed them. Why was JR acting so weirdly and where did he go between 10:40 and 12? Why was JB found murdered in her own home when it was evident that she had been kidnapped and how did JR find her within minutes after so many people searched the house? (He already knew where she was) Based on behavioral clues, red flags, and the fact that the Ramsey’s lawyered up and refused to corporate with BPD leads me to believe it was the family that murdered that little girl (intentional or not) and they staged it. Due to JRs wealth and social status I’m sure he could turn some heads.

 

[UKGuy]

These are my own questions, my own opinions and things I’ve noticed while researching this case. Feel free to give it a read and let me know what you think. Sorry in advance for the length.

First off, calling your friends over to contaminate the crime scene. Big red flag. If IDI how would he know what staircase she would come down? Why use Patsy’s notepad and marker; why would there be a need to practice it and on top of that why change the way the letter was started just to address JR. An advantage of Patsy writing the note; she would be in charge of what it said giving the evidence of it being practiced first in addressing the Ramsey’s. Being the author it gave her control to exclude herself. The time between the 911 call and the first officer arriving was only a couple minutes. So how did John manage to do all the things he said he did after Patsy yelled for him. Another question I had is what did pasty really do? She stated several times she didn’t know whether she went upstairs for John to read it or if she screamed. She said she didn’t read the whole thing but was able to recite some things said in the note. If IDI, why would he stay so long and risk being caught? The fact that the Ramsey’s were persistent in saying Burke was in bed the whole time and that JB was asleep and put to bed as soon as they got home is not plausible. PR and JR claimed that they dropped presents off at two different houses on the way home, but BR stated that they went straight home which gives more time for something to happen. The Ramsey’s were unable to keep their story straight when it came to recollecting certain significant details sent alarms off in my head. You can clearly hear another small voice in the 911 recording. Also JR stated that he was working on a model with Burke and after they both went to bed. Where’s said model? and during BR interview he stated he stayed up to finish the model after Everyone went to bed. Moving in to the pineapple, a ghost didn’t make the tea or the bowl so BR or PR did. Patsy claimed that she would hear cabinets being opened in the night even though she would be on the 3RD floor when the kitchen was on the first floor. Unless they squeak loudly. That’s bs. Burke’s interviews are full of behavioral clues along with PR and JRs interview. Why did patsy lie about the clothes JB was dressed in?Why would burke say John came to wake him up if JR said he didn’t. Why would John fail to mention the things he “noticed on his search of the house” when FW noticed them. Why was JR acting so weirdly and where did he go between 10:40 and 12? Why was JB found murdered in her own home when it was evident that she had been kidnapped and how did JR find her within minutes after so many people searched the house? (He already knew where she was) Based on behavioral clues, red flags, and the fact that the Ramsey’s lawyered up and refused to corporate with BPD leads me to believe it was the family that murdered that little girl (intentional or not) and they staged it. Due to JRs wealth and social status I’m sure he could turn some heads.

Unsuremilocat,
Thats it, the case is RDI, but there is no smoking gun, so it could really be any one of PDI, JDI or BDI.

For me the sexual assault rules out Patsy, and the physical assault rules out JR, not airtight assumptions but that leaves Burke and the evidence does fit, so BDI looks possible.

Add in the Grand Jury True Bills which definitely refer to a third party since both parents could be charged with Murder in the First Degree, as they were both charged with other matching counts.

Who does that leave?

.

 

[AlGx]

What is the current process in the investigation? What are they doing?

 

[Chocopops]

Does anyone know whether there is a transcript of Burke's Dr. Phil interview available online?

 

[Tadpole12]

Does anyone know whether there is a transcript of Burke's Dr. Phil interview available online?

There may be a transcript in the DR Phil thread here at JBR forum, WS?

Dr Phil Episode Transcript - "The Burke Ramsey Interviews: Your Questions Answered" - 09-15-2016 : JonBenet

 

[Swirlz]

Why did Patsy volunteer the info that she and JonBenet had argued about the turtleneck earlier in the day?

 

[FY1234]

Why did Patsy volunteer the info that she and JonBenet had argued about the turtleneck earlier in the day?

Great question! I wonder that myself- did she know the red turtleneck was found balled up in JBR's bathroom and/or that she would be questioned about it and that's why she volunteered that info?

 

[Userid]

Why did Patsy volunteer the info that she and JonBenet had argued about the turtleneck earlier in the day?

Good question --I just thought of this: is it possible that PR lied about when this argument occurred? What if this argument occurred the night after the family got home (on Christmas)? Remember, PR stated that she would wear clothes to bed if she were waking up early the next day (which I don't believe, but I digress) -- but what if she was planning on dressing JBR up in the clothes she wanted her to wear for the flight the next morning (to save time)? She obviously would want to move the argument prior to that night, in that it could have been the catalyst for the murder. Just brainstorming on the spot.

I feel like, JBR was dressed in that red sweater that (Christmas) night, but after wetting the bed (perhaps multiple times), that's when it was removed and when PR flew into a rage. She wanted to move the event up to before the White's Christmas party because she knew it was the catalyst.