AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[BB71]

What matters is, they have her cell phone, and hopefully have gotten into it to see what’s on there. Other than that, I don’t think it means much. IMO

You have access to texts remotely if you have a subpoena. But they will know what messaging apps she may have used. Not sure if they can access her Cloud or not. Would give a timeline but I hope she was asleep by 12:30 am on a school night.

 

[MntnHiker]

I really wish we knew more about their movements that evening. I know LE has reasons to hold this back. I am just thinking of other cases I have followed on here. With Mollie, we had people saying they saw her running that night and the text conversation she had with her mom just an hour or less before she disappeared and was killed. With Hania's kidnapping, we know exactly what was going on beforehand.

I am curious: what was the last known contact of each of the Closses? Was Denise texting with her sister at 830 PM the last time they talked to anyone? If Jim was at work, did he call or text Denise before leaving to come home? How long was that call if it happened? Did Jayme contact anyone that night? I'm sure LE has these answers; I'm just throwing out questions I have. I am curious of their movements that night and who they spoke to.

Then again, if this was a totally random crime, I don't know that any of this matters as much, but I am still not willing to get on the "totally random" train yet.

 

[mtnlites]

I don't think Jayme would think like that. But maybe. The pink fuzz ball on the chair (on the left side near possible mule tape) and the recovery of her phone tells me that she was in bed whenever this all went down. If so (Le would know if no shoes were gone, no coat gone) why not say she was abducted?

I think it's possible she would think like that. Criminal Minds, Law & Order: SVU, NCIS, CSI, the Investigation Discovery channel, Lifetime movies...Phone tracking has pretty much become "detective show 101" these days. Even my 7 year old asks, "Can't they ping her phone?" whenever someone goes missing.

 

[Jabarn]

We need a new term for cold case. LE officials do not call a case cold if there is one tiny investigation. Those of us who live in a real world, when nothing new is found in months and months/years, essentially know it's a cold case, despite what LE says. So, if we want to be on the same page as LE, we need a specialized term for an investigation that goes on and on with no results. Ideas?

I guess the case is cold when it is shut down completely, and no investigator is assigned to it all. We have heard of cold cases when a set of new eyes were taking a look, and it was reopened. That being said, I don’t think this would be defined as a cold case, per se.

 

[mtnlites]

OT...when I went to let my little dog run outside to the courtyard for her morning relief...my door was not locked


Yikes. Had taken her out at midnight and somehow did not lock up.

We slept with our front door standing wide open the other night. All of us thought the other one had closed it. Woke up, saw it, looked and each other and said, "Huh." I'd like to say that's the first time it's happened. It's not.

 

[KLM6]

The autopsies ruled both parents died from homicide via gunshots. If one of them had been a suicide and Jayme took the gun afterwards, the ME would be able to determine suicide from the evidence, without needing the gun present. They determined both were homicides.

True. And there are cases where ME findings were overturned after forensics and investigations were complete. I still think its possible. Maybe not probable, but possible. <modsnip - not victim friendly>. Especially considering a possible lack of unknown DNA in the house.

 

[Bugurl747]

Ok I’m not going to harp on anymore about this because it is all a matter of personal perspective and opinion (and I’m giving mine not just as a member of WS but also having had the benefit of experience as a Detective and an SIO in murder and serious crime ) and ( I’m not saying that this gives me ‘rites’ or that I’m more informed than you or better placed to know than you because I’m not and that is not what I mean) . In this case I only know as much as the rest of you all but my gut feeling is what I personally am going on here .
I do understand and appreciate what you are saying. As stated, I’m not saying that I am right BUT I would expect him to say NO COMMENT to DNA being recovered and NO COMMENT on what evidence has been recovered and NO COMMENT on sexual assault and NO COMMENT regarding the chair damage. This is all part of the evidence chain so of course he is not going to tell us what they have hence NO COMMENT.

BUT the question about the 19 year old BF is a question that IMOO is in a different category. It’s not a question about evidence recovery, of which he’s not going to tell us hence NO COMMENT.

It’s a question about a potential theory, line of enquiry, prospective offender . A question which, if he was to follow his own personal style of communicating ( look at previous press conferences to see what i mean about his own personal manner of dealing with and answering speculation etc ) he could have or would have said NO , that’s just rumour or NO, that’s not a line of enquiry that we are looking at or following or NO, it’s not helpful to keep perpetuating these rumours which are just that, rumours ....

He could have answered by wording it in any of the ways I’ve mentioned but he doesn’t do that . He doesn’t do what is normal to do for him based on his previous press conferences and updates.

He specifically chooses to say NO COMMENT.

That is why , IN MY OPINION, it’s a big red flag.

But it’s only my opinion and I could be wrong. My gut is telling me otherwise. We are all entitled here on WS to respectfully state our own opinions and this is mine .

But I also take on board the alternative opinions of all you great WS people out there who just want what I want - to bring Jayme safely home x

I appreciate the back and forth on things, after all, we are on thread #22

I also value your opinion especially in regards to your job and all of the knowledge and experience you bring to the table.

Nonetheless, I still wanted to comment about it because as you said, we have different perspectives on things and I find the many on this website so very interesting and valuable.

 

[BB71]

LOL the MSM has a way of helping that along nowadays.

There were many quoted statements in that article but none about Jim being there was quoted.

Which makes me think it was an assumption by the MSM writer.

If they do have Jaymes cell phone that is one of the reasons Fitzgerald continues to say they know Jayme had no involvement in what happened. The other is they have been able to enhance the 911 call.

Just because no one was directly talking to the dispatcher it does seem things were being said in the background.

Now it makes me wonder if the cell phone fell to the floor during the chaos and it got stepped on accidentally activating it.

If Jayme knew this suspect and knew this was going to happen they would have been sure not to leave hers behind knowing the history contents could be seen. They would have taken it and immediately taken the battery out or destroyed it.

Imo

The 911 call is from Denise's phone. Fitzgerald has not said she has no involvement. He has said, "She is 13." He has said, "She is not a suspect at this time." I go back and forth but ultimately also believe her to be innocent. She may have been disgruntled, she may have complained about her parents, she may have dreamed of running away, but she does not appear to be cold-hearted in any way. By the looks of it, she is kind, shy, frail, loves her family, and has big dreams of making the world a better place.
Source of car info:
MyLife.com

 

[Jabarn]

I really wish we knew more about their movements that evening. I know LE has reasons to hold this back. I am just thinking of other cases I have followed on here. With Mollie, we had people saying they saw her running that night and the text conversation she had with her mom just an hour or less before she disappeared and was killed. With Hania's kidnapping, we know exactly what was going on beforehand.

I am curious: what was the last known contact of each of the Closses? Was Denise texting with her sister at 830 PM the last time they talked to anyone? If Jim was at work, did he call or text Denise before leaving to come home? How long was that call if it happened? Did Jayme contact anyone that night? I'm sure LE has these answers; I'm just throwing out questions I have. I am curious of their movements that night and who they spoke to.

Then again, if this was a totally random crime, I don't know that any of this matters as much, but I am still not willing to get on the "totally random" train yet.

I hear you. I am kind of the middle, and those posters who shared information about similar crimes- thank you- there is always a reference point to a similar crime, especially a causal connection to a motive like in the Petit family murders. Still thinking though.

Mother says her daughter was targeted by shooter

Vs

When Horror Came to a Connecticut Family

Right now, each crime could have relevancy to Jayme (historical examples of who could have had the motive, means, and opportunity).

Thanks for everyone hanging in there.

 

[BB71]

Or they dont want us to know. Which is fine, too. I just found it peculiar. Especially because it was off by comparison to the the rest of the conversation. And also since one of the first places LE went was to the casino. Maybe it really was to secure video surveillance of cars potentially passing by. Or, maybe not. This far into the investigation it doesnt seem to me like that provided to be supportive. Is that really why they went there? We may never know. A yes to that question may tell us. But also may or may not have meaning to this case. Idk. moo.

Re: LE
They seemed so quick to dismiss the 2000? 2004? red orange Monte Carlo found in OshKosh. No other red orange cars they said. Then news reports say, "maybe other red orange vehicles". <modsnip - sleuthing family>

 

[BB71]

I'm sure police have spoken to very single person at that party. If James was there, we'd know about it. IMO, I don't think James got along with the family and I'm not sure if work wasn't just an excuse not to go. Police have said absolutely nothing about James working a shift that day. The Chief was asked if he'd been to the casino, to which he replied that he didn't know. Surprising answer if he knew that he had been at the turkey plant for a full shift don't you think?

Why hasn't a co-worker confirmed or denied his presence at work on Sunday Oct 14th.

 

[Angleterre]

I appreciate the back and forth on things, after all, we are on thread #22

I also value your opinion especially in regards to your job and all of the knowledge and experience you bring to the table.

Nonetheless, I still wanted to comment about it because as you said, we have different perspectives on things and I find the many on this website so very interesting and valuable.

Absolutely and I agree that every person in here has great ideas and opinions and that is why I find WS so compelling and obsessive lol
Thanks for your kind response and words
If only the power of us all here on WS routing for Jayme ( and others on other WS cases ) collectively, was enough to bring her home. She would have been home 10 times over by now because of the depth of feelings that all of us here on WS have for her

 

[Jabarn]

Re: LE
They seemed so quick to dismiss the 2000? 2004? red orange Monte Carlo found in OshKosh. No other red orange cars they said. Then news reports say, "maybe other red orange vehicles". <modsnip - sleuthing family>

In the DrydenWire interview, Fitzgerald did say they were putting all those tips about the cars on the side for now. Not sure what he meant by that, but I guess of the 2000+ tips, many may have pertained to the cars, especially the red or orange Challenger. IMO.

 

[Angleterre]

I hear you. I am kind of the middle, and those posters who shared information about similar crimes- thank you- there is always a reference point to a similar crime, especially a causal connection to a motive like in the Petit family murders. Still thinking though.

Mother says her daughter was targeted by shooter

Vs

When Horror Came to a Connecticut Family

Right now, each crime could have relevancy to Jayme (historical examples of who could have had the motive, means, and opportunity).

Thanks for everyone hanging in there.

What a great post
Thank you

 

[gipsypup]

I don't think Jayme would think like that. But maybe. The pink fuzz ball on the chair (on the left side near possible mule tape) and the recovery of her phone tells me that she was in bed whenever this all went down. If so (Le would know if no shoes were gone, no coat gone) why not say she was abducted?

We would think LE would know what Jayme was wearing when she went missing but the sheriff said in his Dryden interview that he didnt know what she was wearing that night. He never stated pajamas , shoes etc..

 

[Caylee Advocate]

We don’t have a timeline, just as we don’t have answers to many of the questions that would help us narrow down our theories.

Answering the door, doesn’t mean that he actually opened it. It just means that he went to the door.

Everyone is different, so it’s impossible to predict what he did, or what he was thinking at the time.

What would seem odd or unsettling to you or I, wouldn’t necessarily have the same effect on someone else.

Okay, how about this scenario. Possibly James had just arrived home from work (or wherever he had been) and just unlocked the front door when the perp/perps rushed him from behind, he turned to defend himself and got shot. He appeared to be a larger man so I could see him going into protect mode.

DC and JC may have already gone to bed and awoke to something that nightmares are made of.

Just my mind in overdrive tonight making me look at things in reverse. JMO

 

[MesquiteO21]

I mentioned this before, but I get stuck on the initial suicide call. I realize the situation is fluid and it takes a while to get a complete picture, but I thought LE always assumed the worst arriving on scene and then backpedaled if need be. In this case, it seemed like the opposite happened. They called suicide then escalated. Especially given that they knew there was a disturbance going on just minutes before and could very likely be coming to a situation in progress. Calling a suicide seems potentially dangerous until the entire house was cleared. I did come up with your theory myself, but where would Jayme be after all this time? It would seem that she would have to get someone very close to her to hide her and that would seem hard to keep from LE after all this time. Strictly my opinion, as well.

i've always had this sneaking little suspicion in the back of my head that there was something on the 911 call that seemed to indicate suicide, and that's why police initially marked it as such. The 911 call is not going to be released any time soon as I understand it so we don't know everything that was potentially said (aside from them releasing that they heard a lot of commotion and "help.")

But what if the dispatcher also heard what she thought sounded like "kill myself" or "suicide"? something along those lines. So cops respond to the house with that knowledge, they see James dead on the floor, and thus initially report as suicide. That makes sense. What has never made sense to me is if ALL that was heard was commotion and "help!" and the cops immediately reporting as suicide upon finding a body on the floor.

 

[MassGuy]

We would think LE would know what Jayme was wearing when she went missing but the sheriff said in his Dryden interview that he didnt know what she was wearing that night. He never stated pajamas , shoes etc..

They wouldn’t necessarily know that.

She could have been wearing just about anything when the crime occurred, and the people who would know if any clothing was missing, were <modsnip - killed>.

 

[crhedBngr]

I expect no less than a sensationalist twist from Radar. Ughh.

Didn't Fitzgerald recently say they had not received any of the lab results back yet on the evidence they have sent in?

Imo

RBBM

Yes. I'll try and find that link for Everyone.

ETA: Here is one article on this.

Going Inside The Daily Hunt To Find Jayme Closs

 

[MassGuy]

Okay, how about this scenario. Possibly James had just arrived home from work (or wherever he had been) and just unlocked the front door when the perp/perps rushed him from behind, he turned to defend himself and got shot. He appeared to be a larger man so I could see him going into protect mode.

DC and JC may have already gone to bed and awoke to something that nightmares are made of.

Just my mind in overdrive tonight making me look at things in reverse. JMO

Yeah. For now I’m going with the idea that door was kicked in, as being true.

This all but precludes him being attacked as he walked in the door.

If the door wasn’t kicked in, and we had some sort of a timeline that put him arriving home at around the time of the attack, then I’d definitely agree.