OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[ShouldBWorking]

Could you elaborate on the incident you're describing? The law in Ohio is that an unmarried mother has full custody until a court rules otherwise.
Lawriter - ORC - 3109.042 Custody rights of unmarried mother.

This is true but from personal experience with my grandchild- the police do not enforce that. They either don't understand or don't care - and will let the child stay with the parent who physically has them. It's different from police force to police force. I was shocked when this happened to my daughter.

 

[kaykay543]

The Wagners are a toxic enmeshed family, therefore, Robin didn't snitch on her mommy. I was really surprised to learn that one of Fredericka's sons lived apart from her (a separate, non-enmeshed life) and had his own business (escaped from the toxic family). Fredericka's family likely looks upon him as the black sheep.

Yes this happened just a couple years after I started my miniature horse farm. It sent waves through the community when they split. Back then FW only bred miniature horses. This son did all the showing for them. She owned Blue Boy which became a famous historical stallion.

I will say he is a scary man much like all of his brothers. We had a run in years ago and it wasn't pretty. I was warned to back off or I would regret it

 

[ShouldBWorking]

Fire destroys family's top show horses

So much of this article makes me just shake my head.

 

[Betty P]

This is true but from personal experience with my grandchild- the police do not enforce that. They either don't understand or don't care - and will let the child stay with the parent who physically has them. It's different from police force to police force. I was shocked when this happened to my daughter.

It's possible that local LE doesn't spend much time enforcing these things, especially in this area. We all should keep in mind Pike and surrounding counties are economically distressed and in the epicenter of a major opioid crisis. LE has their hands full dealing with major problems with drug trafficking and addiction and all the ancillary crimes that follow.

Just a guess, but they're probably not getting involved in custody enforcement unless it's related to child abuse or neglect, etc. or if the local courts request it. If there was a physical altercation on UHR in the days/weeks before the massacre, they would have handled that problem, but referred the parties and their custody arguments back to the courts. JMO. At that point in time, if a custody dispute, it appears that S continued to remain w/ HMR. That may have angered JW and his family, but they had already been planning extreme violence against the Rhoden family for months.

 

[Betty P]

Yes this happened just a couple years after I started my miniature horse farm. It sent waves through the community when they split. Back then FW only bred miniature horses. This son did all the showing for them. She owned Blue Boy which became a famous historical stallion.

I will say he is a scary man much like all of his brothers. We had a run in years ago and it wasn't pretty. I was warned to back off or I would regret it

BBM

Interesting, thanks for that info. Seems relevant and, IMO, speaks to the family culture. They sound like people accustomed to having their own way, without consideration of others. Vindictive, too.

Now that so many members of this violent family are locked up, perhaps more people in the community will come forward to share their experiences. They probably had a lot of run ins and made a lot of threats. I'd still like to know more about how Billy W and his wife made a living, other than buying and selling car parts (per neighbor of Flying W Farms).

 

[Betty P]

Pike County, Ohio, murders: Custody cases often fuel anger, but massacre boggles experts

“Your case is like a once-in-a-century storm,” said Richard Gelles, professor of child welfare and development at the University of Pennsylvania. “I’ve never seen this many homicides involved in a custody dispute.”

At some point, the families had a falling-out. Rhoden relatives have told The Enquirer Jake Wagner was abusive to Hanna Rhoden, the couple split up, and the subsequent custody battle had been acrimonious. Wagner family members disputed that characterization and said the custody arrangements was amicable.

BBM

The term for the murder of a family is familicide, but there are elements of that crime not present in the Rhoden case.

Yeah, familicide usually involves suicide at the end.

Neyler said she would not classify the Pike County murders as a familicide because of the level of planning involved to commit murder at four locations. Security cameras on the Rhoden property also had been disabled.

“It sounds almost like a planned hit, if anything,” she said. “It sort of explains why the children were left alive. At the time, I wondered, who would do that? If it’s a drug thing, why would you leave little kids alive?”

Another expert pointed out there are other ways to get custody and control of a child without killing an entire family, kidnapping being one. What the Wagner's did is far and beyond the scope of the usual custody battle. Same with domestic violence - this crime was far beyond what you usually see.

“There are multiple options for getting illegal custody of a child without having to murder an entire family,” Gelles said. “And then to recruit your whole family to do it. It must be a fairly massive amount of stored-up anger.”

That anger blinds adults, he said. “People become so wrapped up in controlling one another that they completely lose sight that there’s a child involved.”

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I am really hoping for more information. This has nearly driven me crazy over the past 2 1/2 years. Everyone close to me has asked me if I have seen the news about that case in Ohio that I've been following (and been nagging everyone about)!!

BBM

Same here. Everyone was ringing the phone off the hook as soon as the news broke. I stayed up really late that night and the next morning I didn't get up when hubby did. I told him I had a cold and wasn't going to work that day. When he stood there with that silly knowing grin on his face I threw my wad of tissues at him and shot a really dirty look at his back when he walked out the door. That will teach him.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This is a family who is all about themselves. She was on one of the FB Group sites, and everything was all about; Her, them, what they'd suffered, how this had affected them, their farm and their things being searched, how much they'd helped LE, how their lives would never be the same.

I don't think I recall anything said, truly sympathetic toward the loss that the R, M, and G, families were suffering.

Again, that didn't make them guilty, but it did show, again, to me, that they were only concerned about how things affected them.

With psychopaths it is always all about them. It is rare to find a whole family of them though. Grandparents, parents, kids. It is just mind boggling. There is a serious flaw in the bloodline there (pun intended).

 

[RAISINISBACK]

RSD1200 "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!" My absolutely brilliant and wise Father used to tell me, "Two can live as cheaply as one, only if the other doesn't eat!" The other brother, Bob (?) had already moved on and had his own on-going business. Buuuuut, RW (the sister, seen in the arrest video of BigGWIII in Lexington and in the courtroom) might suffer financially if her Mother continued to subsidize GIII, AW, GIV, and JW, (and the minor children), huh? Imagine the negative attention, jeopardizing the company's 50 year reputation? Her Mother (FR) forced to testify before the Grand Jury....and Mamacita is jeopardizing everything by lying, sharing info about the questions asked, etc. Frankly, did/does RW have any choice but to pull away from the insanity?? I'm not saying she doesn't love her Mother or family....but common sense says "Loyalty to a condemned man must be greatly questioned."

Since she was never married her real love might be that farm her mother and brother are busy running into the ground. There was a post on the farms FB that stated this all didn't sit well with those customers that made that farm what it is today. I can see them losing a lot of business over this. It would be hard to trust their word on anything knowing she lied to a GJ.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Well,I didn’t know that. As the case went stale/cold I stopped coming here everyday. Did the 2 gentleman die natural causes.?

AFAIK, both did. I think that GWjr had been sick for awhile, I'm not sure about the circumstances surrounding AW's father, but, if she was truthful on her FB comments w/another individual, she did not come home to attend the funeral. Til this past May, they were still in AK, and I don't think they had the funds to return home, is my guess.

 

[rsd1200]

I think they might have worked in pairs, especially going into FR's place, a home with 4 people (2 children) in it. Wouldn't one person wake, jump, scream, try to run - if the person sleeping next to them was shot?

And what if in any house someone got up to use the bathroom, or simply couldn't sleep? And unless light was streaming in through a window (was it a full moon that night?), how did the killers see clearly - they wouldn't risk a light switch.... were they wearing night vision gear?

How scary is it to be related to this family or have had business dealings with them, knowing now that they're capable of this.....

BBM
They made silencers. That was one of the last pieces that came back, that brought the arrest. I recently learned, if made properly, they will last for quite awhile, and are whisper quiet. They probably made, and practiced with, a few, prior to that night.

I think they may have all went in each place enmasse, or they went in, in pairs. One parent, with one child, at each home.

 

[rsd1200]

The Wagners are a toxic enmeshed family, therefore, Robin didn't snitch on her mommy. I was really surprised to learn that one of Fredericka's sons lived apart from her (a separate, non-enmeshed life) and had his own business (escaped from the toxic family). Fredericka's family likely looks upon him as the black sheep.

If she had knowledge, and didn't say anything, they'd be arresting her, for cover-up too. Mommy may not have been loved, so much as she ran the show and you towed the line. RW may have thought, at this point, It's gone too far now.

 

[rsd1200]

I don’t have facts on any of this, silencers were used, two people laying in bed asleep & someone with a silencer standing there could easily shot both in the head before one of the two could stop it. The biggest danger was getting to their rooms with out making noise while they sleep.

O/T

I work odd hours. I am awake and drinking coffee most nights between 2am -5am I never turn on lights, I sometimes vacuum with the only light from the vacuum. I can see very well at night, especially in the woods. Weird I know.

Once your eyes adapt to the dark, you can get around pretty good. The only home they likely needed a bit of layout on, was DR's. Dropping S off and picking her up, got JW a chance to see that home, and, if true, he got to go inside and help put up a baby bed. Just evil.

 

[IQuestion]

Since she was never married her real love might be that farm her mother and brother are busy running into the ground. There was a post on the farms FB that stated this all didn't sit well with those customers that made that farm what it is today. I can see them losing a lot of business over this. It would be hard to trust their word on anything knowing she lied to a GJ.

JMO

RAISINISBACK Brilliant analysis! Oh for sure, business is going to suffer and/or opportunist's will be circling, looking for some "horse flesh bargains." Not only that, FW will no longer be able to teach Sunday school until this is all over....Oh my! (Please insert icon of puking emoji, here.)

 

[rsd1200]

which is why they forged the documents!?! IMO - because they knew there was no way they would 'win'

I doubt that JW and HMR had ever even done a paternity test or even filed papers at the hospital. Without those, she had full custody of S., in the state of Ohio. To go to court may have meant opening up cans of worms they didn't want open. So, they forged the documents, in order to get S into Canada, and off to Alaska. The forged documents would hold no water in Ohio, as the courts would know he'd not petitioned them, as would HMR.

 

[rsd1200]

So, I am not sure why this is blowing my mind... but it is.
FW created the BREED American Mastiff. I can't imagine the $$$.
I feel as though you have to be fairly smart, as she crossed the American Mastiff and Anatolian Mastiff, in order to achieve a dog with fewer health problems, as well as a "dyer mouth." I would love to know her "worth."

Created a breed and registry for a horse too. Georgian Grande. Beautiful horses. GW3 was caught at Rood and Riddle. Not just anyone can afford to take their equines there. $$$$!!!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That’s what I think.

I think aw went to dana’s, gw went to christopher’s, george junior went to frankie’s & jake went to kenneth’s. Jmo

I think they went in teams. BW and JW went to CR1's and KR's. GW and AW went to FR's and DR's. I think AW killed both HHG and DR and that's why so many shots. I think JW killed GR and KR.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
They made silencers. That was one of the last pieces that came back, that brought the arrest. I recently learned, if made properly, they will last for quite awhile, and are whisper quiet. They probably made, and practiced with, a few, prior to that night.

I think they may have all went in each place enmasse, or they went in, in pairs. One parent, with one child, at each home.

Just to clarify, DeWine said the last piece of evidence (the silencer parts) was important, but it wasn't key evidence. He implied they were ready to move forward with arrests based on what they already had, but the silencer was good evidence to have.

I also agree about them going in pairs to do the killings. Some of those rooms were small and having more than one person shooting was risky. The preliminary AR reports for FR & HHG indicate, IMO, two shooters. Both were killed nearly simultaneously, with neither having time to move. If they came in through the bedroom window, it would explain why the little boy sleeping in the living room wasn't immediately awakened. Given the size of some of the W men, it's baffling to see how they could fit through one of those windows without making some noise. Other alternative is that they used the windows to exit the scene, so that the front door could be locked behind them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

rsd, I agree with you. I don't see plea agreements for this case. Maybe one, as you said, especially if that one more fully secures the DP cases against the others. I hope if a plea bargain is offered that it's on the condition of the most thorough allocution we've ever heard.

It keeps running through my mind that Chris Jr. was found behind the headboard of a bed, trying so hard to live through the attack.

Just that one murder alone is so chilling, let alone the overall depravity that it would take to wipe out 8 people. All of the planning, and all of the opportunities to back out and to make a different choice.

BBM

DeWine seems to think they will go to trial.

Pike County massacre: Child custody often triggers domestic violence

Even DeWine, with a lengthy career in law enforcement and policy-making, said he had never seen a case like the Pike County murders over child custody. On Thursday, he told The Enquirer: "When this case goes to trial, people are just going to shake their heads."

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So, I am not sure why this is blowing my mind... but it is.
FW created the BREED American Mastiff. I can't imagine the $$$.
I feel as though you have to be fairly smart, as she crossed the American Mastiff and Anatolian Mastiff, in order to achieve a dog with fewer health problems, as well as a "dyer mouth." I would love to know her "worth."

What blows my mind is that someone would pay $2000.00 for a dog when the shelters are full of great dogs to be had just for the asking.

JMO