Best book for facts and details?

MariageFreres

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The only book I've read about the case is the Cyril Wecht / Bosworth one. I found it disappointing because it was so lacking in fact and detail about the actual murder and investigation, instead focusing on the feud between the police department, the DAs, and the Ramseys, as well as the role of the media. I'm not interested in that part of it.

So I'm wondering which is the best book for going into the details? I'm sure every one of them has a bias but which is the MOST neutral? Which gives the facts so the reader can make up their own mind, rather than cherry picking and twisting to fit the author's own theory?

I'm probably asking for something that doesn't exist but it's worth a try!
 
The only book I've read about the case is the Cyril Wecht / Bosworth one. I found it disappointing because it was so lacking in fact and detail about the actual murder and investigation, instead focusing on the feud between the police department, the DAs, and the Ramseys, as well as the role of the media. I'm not interested in that part of it.

So I'm wondering which is the best book for going into the details? I'm sure every one of them has a bias but which is the MOST neutral? Which gives the facts so the reader can make up their own mind, rather than cherry picking and twisting to fit the author's own theory?

I'm probably asking for something that doesn't exist but it's worth a try!

MariageFreres,
IMO the best book to read is : Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar 2012

Next best is Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case 2015 Pub. True Crime Detectives Guild

Kolar's book examines details no other book does, but can be opaque in parts, likely due to Kolar's fear of litigation, so you have to mentally cross-reference regularly. Like most other books he has a favorite theory, but he does a good job in laying out crime-scene, highlighting what is relevant etc.


The Detectives Guild book is very good for comparing and contrasting the evidence, you come away thinking you know what evidence matters, its more neutral than Kolar's book, and a lighter read.

If you read Kolar's book you can also supplement this with him being interviewed by Tricia owner of Websleuths, available as podcasts, e.g. mp3, so you get a good feel for Kolar's perspective.

Another good read is JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas Pub. 2000.
Its a bit dated now but holds up well as Steve Thomas was the main investigator, like Kolar he has his favorite theory which does not coincide with Kolar's.

You can check them out on amazon and view reviews on Goodreads

e.g. here is JonBenet: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas

and Foreign Faction :
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar

.
 
MariageFreres,
IMO the best book to read is : Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar 2012

Next best is Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case 2015 Pub. True Crime Detectives Guild

Kolar's book examines details no other book does, but can be opaque in parts, likely due to Kolar's fear of litigation, so you have to mentally cross-reference regularly. Like most other books he has a favorite theory, but he does a good job in laying out crime-scene, highlighting what is relevant etc.


The Detectives Guild book is very good for comparing and contrasting the evidence, you come away thinking you know what evidence matters, its more neutral than Kolar's book, and a lighter read.

If you read Kolar's book you can also supplement this with him being interviewed by Tricia owner of Websleuths, available as podcasts, e.g. mp3, so you get a good feel for Kolar's perspective.

Another good read is JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas Pub. 2000.
Its a bit dated now but holds up well as Steve Thomas was the main investigator, like Kolar he has his favorite theory which does not coincide with Kolar's.

You can check them out on amazon and view reviews on Goodreads

e.g. here is JonBenet: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas

and Foreign Faction :
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar

.
Kolar certainly saw stuff Thomas didn’t but I’m surprised that the theorizes don’t match up. I wonder what Thomas would say now.
 
Kolar certainly saw stuff Thomas didn’t but I’m surprised that the theorizes don’t match up. I wonder what Thomas would say now.

David Rogers,
From memory, Tricia interviewed Steve Thomas and he had warm words for Kolar and cited non-disclosure issues for not commenting in a detailed manner.

IMO Steve Thomas was a good guy asked to do the impossible, possibly deliberately so, given his complete lack of homicide experience?

The Ramsey's threatened Thomas with litigation over the contents of his book and this colored what went into it, particularly his favorite theory.

.
 
Steve Thomas investigated the case that was presented to the grand jury.



Why would he have anything different to say now?

Swirlz,
There is additional forensic evidence that was not available to Steve Thomas, or was but had not been processed, etc.


.
 
Steve Thomas investigated the case that was presented to the grand jury.



Why would he have anything different to say now?
Because there has been 22 years of hindsight, interviews, depositions, litigation, leaks, lawsuits, secrets, discoveries, revelations of new and in particularly, oppressed evidence. Grand Jury testimonies, documentaries, books, narratives, more interviews and maybe most importantly, 22 years of post-offense behavioral evidence.
 
Steve Thomas investigated the case that was presented to the grand jury.



Why would he have anything different to say now?

TRICIA: Tell us how you met James Kolar and tell us a little bit about the man


STEVE: Yep, when I was a police officer in Boulder, and still a young police officer, in a blue uniform,
pushing a black and white around out on the street, um, I had the good fortune to have, as my sergeant for a period of time, Jim Kolar and uh, I can say he is widely respected by his peers. He rose through the ranks and is now a police chief and I know he’s active with the Colorado Association of the Chiefs of Police, um, and he comes from a perspective having worked this case, knows this case as a current police chief, so I think his CV and background and credentials, and his peer respect, sort of speak for themselves. But uh, I always enjoyed working for Jim Kolar very stract, squared away, excellent police officer, excellent investigator. Yep, was a good sergeant to work for, and I learned a lot about police work from Jim Kolar, so when he later would step into this frying pan as the lead investigator for the DAs office, assigned to the Ramsey case, um, that gave me some comfort and assurance that, you know, it would be once again reviewed through the eyes of a professional police investigator. Of course,having read his book, recently when it came out, I was (chuckles) disappointed to say the least that he experienced many things, not the least of which, the same sort of kill the messenger phenomenon from the DA’s office at the time, and I am just very impressed with his book and what he’s put forth.

TRICIA: Um, so, we’re talking with Steve Thomas, Boulder detective on the JonBenet Ramsey case, and
we’re talking about James Kolar. He is the chief of police of Telluride, and he wrote the amazing book, A
Foreign Faction Who Kidnapped JonBenet Ramsey, and we’ll be talking with Chief Kolar here in just a moment, but we’re talking about him behind his back. I wonder if his ears are burning. Steve, were you
surprised when James Kolar, he was on the job, uh, with the Boulder District Attorney’s office less than a
year if I remember correctly. Were you surprised when he quit, or did you go, yea I get it. He went through what I went through, just like you said. Were you surprised that he did quit?

STEVE: Well, um, I didn’t know he…we had spoken a couple of times during that period but only on a
professional level as he was investigating the case, and I think we may have spoken a time or two where he wanted some clarification on something or another that I may have been able to help with, so we
had a couple of conversations I recall in which, um, it was, um, it was absolutely on, he was an
investigator and I was just playing case information, as I recall it, um, but he didn’t share with me any
frustrations or anything that was going on inside the DA’s office, so I was surprised when he quit, um,
but I was surprised upon reading his book to see all of the frustrations that he encountered with the same institution – this DA’s office – um, while only trying to do his job. And, uh, so I didn’t think much would surprise me about the case anymore, um (chuckles), until I read his book and read some profound and staggeringly significant revelations that he made.
Um, about various things that went on, and a couple items of evidentiary nature that, um, just in any reasonable review or assessment of the case, um, perhaps like my experience, just left me a bit dumbfounded that some of the experiences that he had were identical to mine, albeit some years later and with a different District Attorney in place. Um, but, again, I give Chief Kolar a lot of credit that he was trying to work towards a definitive conclusion to the case and um ran into a lot of the same frustrations and road blocks that I experienced.
 
I' m fairly sure that Thomas isn't in the "Burke did it" camp. At least I'd be very disappointed if he is, evidence being virtually non-existent.
 
Kolar, I note, makes an odd comment in Foreign Faction that French didn't open the wine cellar door because it was secured from the outside by a rotating block of wood. (So far, so good.) But then Kolar says that French didn't open it because if someone had forced entry through that door from the outside of the residence, the wood block would have been damaged (and it wasn't).

But that's not why French said he didn't open it. In his report French writes: "The door opened inward and I was looking for access out of the house. Since the door could not have been used for that purpose, and it was latched closed, I did not open it."

I think Kolar's purpose in saying this is to reinforce a point he makes about a chair blocking the train room door.
 
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And of course, there's no reason why the block of wood would necessarily have been in place when an intruder came in so you couldn't conclude that an intruder didn't come in through the wine cellar from that. But it would have precluded an intruder leaving that way: the door to the wine cellar opened into the hallway so the intruder couldn't have put the latch in place from inside the room.
 
I think people who extol Foreign Faction by James Kolar haven't really read it. That's perfectly understandable since most of it is unreadable. The best parts are those cribbed from JonBenet...oh, and the last third is entertaining, all about the trials and tribulations of trying to convince people of his theory.

When Kolar is making a formal presentation of his theory to law enforcement he finds himself holding up two pictures: one John Mark Karr, one the psychic's drawing of the intruder. "Where was he hiding?" Kolar asks. This question was greeted, he tells us, by silence. (We can infer "puzzled" and "embarassed.") And get this: Kolar tells us he had no idea at the time why he did this. Only hours later, when he was hiking somewhere, did it dawn on him that it was all about the chair that John Ramsey says was blocking the train room door. If the chair was actually blocking the door, that meant the intruder had still been in the house after the police arrived. Of course Kolar doesn't actually think the chair was blocking the door; he thinks it was something that John Ramsey made up for his second interview. (Why Ramsey would do this isn't clear to me: Lou Smit had laid out the idea that the intruder left through the train room. A chair in the hallway blocking the door throws a monkey wrench in that and Lou seems surprised when Ramsey mentions it.)

Kolar thinks that the fact that Fleet White and Ofc. French didn't mention moving a chair to get into the train room means that the chair wasn't there. But people tend to leave out details they don't think are important and we know that Fleet White didn't mention moving the suitcase until a long time after the fact.

John Ramsey says he went into the train room the first time between 7 and 9 am. At that time the suitcase was flush against the wall under the window, which he found open slightly and which he closed and latched (he thinks).

Fleet White also says he went into the train room that morning. He moved the suitcase away from the wall and perpendicular to it. Thomas implies he did this around 6:30 am; Kolar says it was around 7:30.

I would conclude that sometime in the morning, John Ramsey went alone into the basement before Fleet White did the same thing. If Ramsey found the body around 11 am, as Steve Thomas believes, that suggests Ramsey made two trips into the basement before his final trip with Fleet White at 1 pm.
 
I think people who extol Foreign Faction by James Kolar haven't really read it. That's perfectly understandable since most of it is unreadable. The best parts are those cribbed from JonBenet...oh, and the last third is entertaining, all about the trials and tribulations of trying to convince people of his theory.

When Kolar is making a formal presentation of his theory to law enforcement he finds himself holding up two pictures: one John Mark Karr, one the psychic's drawing of the intruder. "Where was he hiding?" Kolar asks. This question was greeted, he tells us, by silence. (We can infer "puzzled" and "embarassed.") And get this: Kolar tells us he had no idea at the time why he did this. Only hours later, when he was hiking somewhere, did it dawn on him that it was all about the chair that John Ramsey says was blocking the train room door. If the chair was actually blocking the door, that meant the intruder had still been in the house after the police arrived. Of course Kolar doesn't actually think the chair was blocking the door; he thinks it was something that John Ramsey made up for his second interview. (Why Ramsey would do this isn't clear to me: Lou Smit had laid out the idea that the intruder left through the train room. A chair in the hallway blocking the door throws a monkey wrench in that and Lou seems surprised when Ramsey mentions it.)

Kolar thinks that the fact that Fleet White and Ofc. French didn't mention moving a chair to get into the train room means that the chair wasn't there. But people tend to leave out details they don't think are important and we know that Fleet White didn't mention moving the suitcase until a long time after the fact.

John Ramsey says he went into the train room the first time between 7 and 9 am. At that time the suitcase was flush against the wall under the window, which he found open slightly and which he closed and latched (he thinks).

Fleet White also says he went into the train room that morning. He moved the suitcase away from the wall and perpendicular to it. Thomas implies he did this around 6:30 am; Kolar says it was around 7:30.

I would conclude that sometime in the morning, John Ramsey went alone into the basement before Fleet White did the same thing. If Ramsey found the body around 11 am, as Steve Thomas believes, that suggests Ramsey made two trips into the basement before his final trip with Fleet White at 1 pm.

fr brown,
In his book Steve Thomas puts forward a PDI theory but the evidence does not stack up, also the Ramsey's threatened Thomas with litigation if he published his original RDI theory.

What Kolar might be suggesting in his book is that he realized JR might be blowing Intruder Smoke into the case just to spin it how he felt it should go?

Also you should really state that three people saw the chair, moved it to gain entry then moved it back again, i.e. Ramsey, French and White. That's 12 eyeball events, minimum.

In interviews both John and Patsy, even Burke in his Dr. Phil interview, are all spinning the evidence towards an intruder, also Lou Smit obliges with climbing through the window, etc.

I would conclude that sometime in the morning, John Ramsey went alone into the basement before Fleet White did the same thing.
trainroom-window.jpg

I guess John Ramsey visited prior to Fleet White as the suitcase is shown in the crime-scene photograph as outlined by Fleet White, i.e. perpendicular to the wall

The window is open in the photograph yet JR says he closed it? Basically Fleet White's account appears consistent where as JR's is not.

So concluding that JR was in the wine-cellar before Fleet White does not tell us anything new, particularly if you are JDI inclined.

Fleet White's account allows for the possibility that JonBenet was not in the wine-cellar when he looked and that JR moved her there after Fleet White's first search.

Is it not interesting that both authors, Thomas, Kolar do not tell us why the intruder or the Ramseys redressed JonBenet?

You might think that the Kidnapper/Intruder would not care less where or how he left JonBenet, or that the Ramsey's might like to stage a chaotic violent scene with Jonbenet naked from the waist down. Yet we do not get that, instead we are offered a bedtime JonBenet, alike a sleeping Princess Beauty!

Whats to hide, it cannot be her death as that is self evident?

.
 
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I think people who extol Foreign Faction by James Kolar haven't really read it. That's perfectly understandable since most of it is unreadable. The best parts are those cribbed from JonBenet...oh, and the last third is entertaining, all about the trials and tribulations of trying to convince people of his theory.

When Kolar is making a formal presentation of his theory to law enforcement he finds himself holding up two pictures: one John Mark Karr, one the psychic's drawing of the intruder. "Where was he hiding?" Kolar asks. This question was greeted, he tells us, by silence. (We can infer "puzzled" and "embarassed.") And get this: Kolar tells us he had no idea at the time why he did this. Only hours later, when he was hiking somewhere, did it dawn on him that it was all about the chair that John Ramsey says was blocking the train room door. If the chair was actually blocking the door, that meant the intruder had still been in the house after the police arrived. Of course Kolar doesn't actually think the chair was blocking the door; he thinks it was something that John Ramsey made up for his second interview. (Why Ramsey would do this isn't clear to me: Lou Smit had laid out the idea that the intruder left through the train room. A chair in the hallway blocking the door throws a monkey wrench in that and Lou seems surprised when Ramsey mentions it.)

Kolar thinks that the fact that Fleet White and Ofc. French didn't mention moving a chair to get into the train room means that the chair wasn't there. But people tend to leave out details they don't think are important and we know that Fleet White didn't mention moving the suitcase until a long time after the fact.

John Ramsey says he went into the train room the first time between 7 and 9 am. At that time the suitcase was flush against the wall under the window, which he found open slightly and which he closed and latched (he thinks).

Fleet White also says he went into the train room that morning. He moved the suitcase away from the wall and perpendicular to it. Thomas implies he did this around 6:30 am; Kolar says it was around 7:30.

I would conclude that sometime in the morning, John Ramsey went alone into the basement before Fleet White did the same thing. If Ramsey found the body around 11 am, as Steve Thomas believes, that suggests Ramsey made two trips into the basement before his final trip with Fleet White at 1 pm.
I hate to break it to you FR, but the red chair was never blocking the OPEN train room door. It is something JR made up. Just like he did in saying he saw a van in the alley that morning with his binoculars.

Steve Thomas has tailored his theory over the years as new evidence, information, and 22 years of hindsight have come to light.

Why haven’t you?
 
I hate to break it to you FR, but the red chair was never blocking the OPEN train room door. It is something JR made up. Just like he did in saying he saw a van in the alley that morning with his binoculars.

Steve Thomas has tailored his theory over the years as new evidence, information, and 22 years of hindsight have come to light.

Why haven’t you?

I seriously doubt that Thomas is in the "Burke did it" camp. Only Kolar and internet posters are there. And some people Kolar, bizarrely, managed to convince who should have known better.

You do know that Kolar believes that John Ramsey slept through the night? He said that on Tricia's program--the one he was on with Steve Thomas.
 
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