GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[nwmouse]

My primary thought is that he took it off her finger after killing her and didn't have time to hide it [thanks to Shannan's friend Nicole entering the house with LE before he had time to properly 'clean up'.

I wonder if he planned on pawning the ring so he could buy NK jewelry on a "romantic" getaway?

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

There’s still not enough there to convince me that he killed the girls first.

He appears to be lazy, and those pictures were easier to send than going into their rooms and taking photos of them while they were sleeping.

The texts to co workers was apparently standard practice as well.

The DA wasn’t able to to reach a conclusion one way or another, and I can see why.

I agree, lazy and no desire to do anything Shanann asked and did not care about pleasing her anymore.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

Why?

Because a detective [Blaney] during questioning of Jodi Arias unwittingly provided Arias with the '2 people came to the house and attacked him' story that she then dined out on [OK not quite] for the next couple of years until she got found guilty and sentenced to LWOP.

 

[Colorado303]

These are all Level 5 High Security Facilities. Could be any one of these.

Colorado State Penitentiary (CSP)
Denver Reception and Diagnostic Center (DRDC)
San Carlos Correctional Facility (SCCF)
Sterling Correctional Facility (SCF) (*)
Centennial Correctional Facility (CCF)

CSP/CCF CLOSE Offenders can have visits on all three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They can have the same visitor on two days (Friday and Saturday or Friday and Sunday) but not Saturday and Sunday. No maximum for the month. A maximum of three (3) adults and (3) children visitors may visit an offender for contact visits unless otherwise approved via 300-0!H.

Interesting. What’s the logic behind preventing the same visitor from visiting both days on the weekend?

 

[Colorado303]

My thought was he wanted her to think she left it behind because she was leaving him a “take this ring back, I don’t want it anymore” scenario.

Or he took it off her finger after he killed her so he could sell it, assuming he’d get it when he came back and it would never be seen on the nightstand.

 

[kiwilaura]

Last night I also made some comments about the polygraph/confession interview and just want to note the sources:

1) Detectives giving Chris the idea to blame his wife: Discovery Page 601
2) Chris asking to speak with his dad: Discovery Page 602
3) Ronnie Watts not giving Chris the idea to blame Shanann: Discovery Page 602-603
4) Chris first saying that Shanann smothered the girls, then changing it to strangled, and Ronnie trying to get clarification: Discovery Page 603
5) Chris not saying that he saw Bella blue on the monitor. He said he first saw Bella on the monitor, with no sheets on her, and assumed she was hot. Then the monitor cycled to CeCe and he saw Shanann on top of her. He ran to CeCe, pulled Shanann off her, and he saw that CeCe was blue, and he strangled Shanann. He then said after dragging Shanann back to bed, he saw Bella sprawled on the monitor and just knew she was dead (he did not go to her room): Discovery Page 603-604

I only mention point 5, as that explanation obviously got twisted in the affidavit which of course resulted in us spending days and days debating if he could have seen a child blue on the monitor.


I strongly recommend that you all read the interview/polygraph test, as it provides a clear explanation of everything that CW told detectives. It starts at Discovery Page 580 (PDF document page 513). It is very, very long. The initial part is bullet point facts and runs for several pages. If you want to skip all those bullet points, then starting at Discovery Page 596 (PDF document page 529) is a good part. This is where the set up of the polygraph, the actual polygraph and the results starts. After that comes the heavy questions, the conversation with his dad, and his ultimate "confession".

For what it's worth, I think Ronnie Watts was completely naive, but I do believe he genuinely believed Chris's confession and appears to not have coached him other than saying he still loved him, and couldn't blame him for what happened as Shanann killed the girls. I think Chris probably got confidence from his dad's response that the story could fly from that moment on. Ronnie is deluded, but I do feel a little bit sorry for him, he clearly worshipped Chris and his entire world must be shattered.

 

[PommyMommy]

Okay, this list has some additions that didn’t get posted before the answers started coming in... I think there are a number of questions here that have been answered by the discovery. Can anyone help with answers (and hopefully a page reference)?

1. What was the significance of the non-porous bag and the footprint?
2. Was NK the only AP or was there evidence he was out trolling for women (or men) on websites?
3. Was the alleged male AP "TB" for real or was he just inserting himself into the investigation?
4. NK "deleted" texts & FB posts before contacting LE. Do we know if LE recovered them?
5. How did Shanann's phone get in the sofa?
6. What was the content of the texts CW sent in the days leading up to the murders? Will they be made public?
7. What was CW doing on the Saturday night before the murders? Did he use a babysitter?
8. How did NUA know that SW missed her doctor's appointment? Did she call the office and ask when she never heard back from SW?
9. We all heard a dog barking while at least one of the infamous 'porch' interviews took place, was it ever confirmed that the barking we all heard was a LE dog and not Dieter, the daschund?
10. What was underneath the blacked out areas in the arrest affidavit?
11. The affidavit states that CW “ultimately” strangled SW – did he describe a big fight, inconsistent with the autopsy results?
12. Were Bella and CeCe’s blankets found? If so, where?
13. Did Andarko fire CW before or after he was arrested, and if before, why was he terminated?
14. What was the exact day/time CW called 1) the school to "un-enroll" the girls and, 2) the realtor about selling the house?
15. Did the Watts have a home phone?
16. Did SW mention to anyone (family/friends) that a separation or divorce was being discussed? Did NUA know what SW meant when she indicated she would need her friendship more than ever?
17. Did Shanann ask to talk to the girls on Sunday night and if so, did CW deny this?
18. Who named Nico and when? The name was spelled two different ways on FR, Jr’s Facebook. One was spelled with a “C”, the other with a “K.” So, the baby’s name resembles two women’s names (NUA and NK) which was out there by FR, Jr. in the very beginning of the case.
19. When did CW find out about baby Nico's gender and what was his reaction that the DA alluded to?
20. A reporter asked Rourke if he thought the pregnancy had contributed to CW's actions. Rourke said, "The reaction of the defendant when he found out was something less than what you would expect a normal and reasonable father to display when he found out that he was about to have a son." The DA looked and sounded like he was referring to something specific. Is this coming from texts they read between SW and CW? Something SW told family or friends?
21. Why didn't SW, Bella, and CeCe have on pants? Was it to enable getting them down the oil-tank hatch more easily? If so, why then would SW not have on pants?

 

[kiwilaura]

Oh and also to add, (Discovery Page 606) Chris made it sound to his dad like he completely panicked and put the girls in the tanks because he didn't know what else to do. In reality, we know from the accounts of his colleagues that morning, he was as cool as a cucumber. I do not believe there was any panic at all.

 

[ReckoningDay]

This post is for @MsBetsy and anyone else is interested. In the last thread I mentioned about how Nichol K told investigators that she encouraged Chris to work on his marriage with Shanann. MsBetsy asked for where this was in the documents. Sorry, I posted several times last night in a rage and never mentioned the page numbers. Will be sure to do that from now on.

Anyway:

Starts at discovery page 569 (document page 502)
It is mentioned several times over the course of the interview that Nichol apparently encouraged Chris to work on his marriage. Chris repeatedly said it was Shanann who wanted out. At one point he apparently told Nichol he his trip to NC was to attempt to work on it with Shanann and find out if the marriage could be saved. He later apparently reported that Shanann's mind was made up and it was over. He also told Nichol that their marriage had been purely contractual for a long time, which we know is not true. The interview also does show that Nichol says she encouraged Chris to read articles about helping children through divorce, and he said "the kids will be fine" (dead).

Of course the texts show a different story to that, poor Shanann was beside herself with fear, pain and confusion.

Were there texts to show that she encouraged him.to.work on his marriage, or was this something she said verbally to LE?

 

[NuttMegg]

@MassGuy
Hey did you (or anyone else of course) run across anything that said that the Cervi site was scheduled to be closed down, phased out, or something like that? I can't even remember where I read that, someone said it was in the documents and that it would mean that he maybe thought the girls would never be found.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

I wonder what he did with the blankets. I was thinking he burned them, but where? They knew where he went.

Maybe this is the answer. On page 124 it states that LE had information CW stopped at 6500 Black Mesa Rd particulary 6507 for several minutes. It is a housing development site with some dumpsters which were emptied on the 16th August and deposited on the top of Eire landfill.

 

[nwmouse]

The letters from his fan club are sending chills down my spine.
I should NOT be reading this on Thanksgiving but I cannot stop.
I can't help wondering if any of those fan-club letter writers posted here before they were shut down by our mods. The first letter sounds like someone with an IQ below room temperature.
Discovery: page 1508.

edited to
moo

 

[Nellie Nelson]

Or he took it off her finger after he killed her so he could sell it, assuming he’d get it when he came back and it would never be seen on the nightstand.

I agree. This was one more thing he had neglected to consider the significance of when he assumed he was going to go to work, act 'normal' and have plenty of time to deal with everything left in the house when he returned.

The ring would not only be a potential source of income, but also a potential identifying artifact if left on Shannan's finger.

 

[scdiv]

Last night I also made some comments about the polygraph/confession interview and just want to note the sources:

1) Detectives giving Chris the idea to blame his wife: Discovery Page 601
2) Chris asking to speak with his dad: Discovery Page 602
3) Ronnie Watts not giving Chris the idea to blame Shanann: Discovery Page 602-603
4) Chris first saying that Shanann smothered the girls, then changing it to strangled, and Ronnie trying to get clarification: Discovery Page 603
5) Chris not saying that he saw Bella blue on the monitor. He said he first saw Bella on the monitor, with no sheets on her, and assumed she was hot. Then the monitor cycled to CeCe and he saw Shanann on top of her. He ran to CeCe, pulled Shanann off her, and he saw that CeCe was blue, and he strangled Shanann. He then said after dragging Shanann back to bed, he saw Bella sprawled on the monitor and just knew she was dead (he did not go to her room): Discovery Page 603-604

I only mention point 5, as that explanation obviously got twisted in the affidavit which of course resulted in us spending days and days debating if he could have seen a child blue on the monitor.


I strongly recommend that you all read the interview/polygraph test, as it provides a clear explanation of everything that CW told detectives. It starts at Discovery Page 580 (PDF document page 513). It is very, very long. The initial part is bullet point facts and runs for several pages. If you want to skip all those bullet points, then starting at Discovery Page 596 (PDF document page 529) is a good part. This is where the set up of the polygraph, the actual polygraph and the results starts. After that comes the heavy questions, the conversation with his dad, and his ultimate "confession".

For what it's worth, I think Ronnie Watts was completely naive, but I do believe he genuinely believed Chris's confession and appears to not have coached him other than saying he still loved him, and couldn't blame him for what happened as Shanann killed the girls. I think Chris probably got confidence from his dad's response that the story could fly from that moment on. Ronnie is deluded, but I do feel a little bit sorry for him, he clearly worshipped Chris and his entire world must be shattered.

Good points! I agree on CW's father. I think on the drive from the airport to the police station, CW was still keeping up the facade that he had nothing to do with this. I don't think they were strategizing cover stories. I think CW was arrogant enough to think he was going to get away with this and not clever enough to come up with any alternate theories on his own. Just, "they were like vanished like."

 

[NuttMegg]

Good points! I agree on CW's father. I think on the drive from the airport to the police station, CW was still keeping up the facade that he had nothing to do with this. I don't think they were strategizing cover stories. I think CW was arrogant enough to think he was going to get away with this and not clever enough to come up with any alternate theories on his own. Just, "they were like vanished like."

I definitely no longer pin the story on coaching from the father. After hearing him speak and reading what he says, no way did he come up with that. It's like several have already said, the cops came up with it!!

 

[Nellie Nelson]

I wonder if he planned on pawning the ring so he could buy NK jewelry on a "romantic" getaway?

Risky, but what with Chris Watt's being one of the dumbest criminals of all time, who knows?

 

[kiwilaura]

I wonder what he did with the blankets. I was thinking he burned them, but where? They knew where he went.

This is also covered in the polygraph/confession interview as linked above. He says he left these with the sheet and may have blown away. They were never found despite drone searches. We just do not know.

 

[mtnlites]

Good grief I cannot believe what I am reading in this document. SICK!!
He's more monstrous than I thought.
My sympathy for the AP (You Know Who) is dwindling fast.
The FBI agent conducting the interrogation is brilliant.
Poor Shanann never stood a chance.

Edited to add: CW's obsession with anal sex (sorry I know its gross to even discuss and it makes me want to vomit after reading about the AP google searching the prep work) is alarming and disgusting. I hope he never forced SW into it.

moo

Eh, different stuff for different people. There are a lot of "weird" things out there that people enjoy. To each their own. Personally, though, I'd just prefer to continue hating on CW for the things I KNOW he did. In the long list of awful things he did, trying out various sexual positions with the mistress is kind of near the bottom (ha ha, no pun intended) for me.

 

[ZsaZsa]

If Amber released a book, don’t you think Nichol will? A big difference though is, there was no Watts trial. But, how are you going to feel if Nichol ends up doing TV interviews (Dr. Phil?) and releases a book (‘my summer with the evil monster, Chris Watts).

The Anthony's were paid $60K for one appearance on Dr Phil. There's no accounting for bad taste...

 

[MassGuy]

@MassGuy
Hey did you (or anyone else of course) run across anything that said that the Cervi site was scheduled to be closed down, phased out, or something like that? I can't even remember where I read that, someone said it was in the documents and that it would mean that he maybe thought the girls would never be found.

I just did a full search of the document and can’t find anything to that effect.

It must have come from somewhere else.