AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Curiousobserver]

I understand. What I am saying is if there is no perceived investigative value for purposes of prosecution, then it would seem the risk of releasing it would be outweighed by the even remote chance of a) someone hearing something useful or b) at the very least, getting this back in the headlines rather than let it get cold and die. If there is specific information released that cant be heard because it jeopardizes something, they can cut that part out

or someone who does know something being made to feel a twinge of unbearable guilt and coming forward....

 

[photographer4]

Maybe they planned to just kill her too but she did something that made them so angry they decided to take her and torture her.

Or she fought maybe scratched or bit and got their DNA and they knew it so they brought her with them.

 

[doktor57]

I think she was the target all along, because, if she wasn't, what was the point? The parents seem to be squeaky clean.

 

[photographer4]

I understand. What I am saying is if there is no perceived investigative value for purposes of prosecution, then it would seem the risk of releasing it would be outweighed by the even remote chance of a) someone hearing something useful or b) at the very least, getting this back in the headlines rather than let it get cold and die. If there is specific information released that cant be heard because it jeopardizes something, they can cut that part out

I keep going back to wondering if they can’t release anything because the part that sounds like a commotion is maybe too short. Maybe it was five seconds of yelling and the rest was silence bc they left with Jayme. Maybe there just isn’t enough sound at all.

 

[photographer4]

I

And Andy Kaufman isnt.

I hear you. I dont think there is a perfect solution. I just dont want this case to go ice cold. I want everything possible tried to potentially find this poor girl. Im sorry if I am so passionate on this. I have kids and i would be fuming if they werent trying every hail mary under the sun to bring my kid home. I feel like at some point the merits of releasing outweigh the merits of not releasing considering you can cut out specific pieces if they jeopardize something

I hear you and understand your point.

 

[photographer4]

I have had that same train of thought, but the part that trips me up is that the perp or perps more than likely knew 911 was called and police were on the way seems that they may have a shot at getting away if they run into the cops but aren't suspicious! They would know they had zero chance of getting away if they get stopped by the cops and have a kidnapped teenager in their car.

Makes it more interesting they seem to have gone the opposite way from which all police attended the scene, doesn’t it? Wonder if they knew police would come from the other way and thus exited the area via the other direction on purpose to avoid police

 

[Hatfield]

Or she fought maybe scratched or bit and got their DNA and they knew it so they brought her with them.

This is a good point and it could be one reason they may have taken her when they initially had no intention of taking her. In that scenario they could not just kill her and leave her there because it would leave their DNA there. Hmmmm.

IMO I am leaning toward the theory that he/they came there to take her in the first place and must have known their parents would never approve of her leaving with him/them so he/they had plans to take out the parents and get her.

I have no basis for why I think this other than its been my first thought ever since this happened and for now I am leaning that way still.

 

[DutchTreat]

Makes it more interesting they seem to have gone the opposite way from which all police attended the scene, doesn’t it? Wonder if they knew police would come from the other way and thus exited the area via the other direction on purpose to avoid police

Are there portable scanners on which you can hear if police is on the way? And can you find out if there would have been such a device at the scene. Can they be pinged or something?

 

[cryscrys]

Makes it more interesting they seem to have gone the opposite way from which all police attended the scene, doesn’t it? Wonder if they knew police would come from the other way and thus exited the area via the other direction on purpose to avoid police

Yes very interesting there would be a lot riding on the certainty that the police would respond in a certain way and seems lucky for them they did!

 

[Mandrew]

Wisconsin's FOIA is pretty standard

"Police records are presumed public and, like all records, their release is subject to the common law balancing test. The Wisconsin Atty Gen in 1988 issued a directive that states, some cases, the police department withholds records claiming their release may interfere with an ongoing investigation.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court, however, has held that, at a minimum, daily arrest records are open to the public, regardless.

The State Court in 1991 held that district attorney files (as opposed to police records) are not subject to public access, even after the trial and all appeals have been concluded.

A denied request in Wisconsin can be appealed, to various state courts, but it takes about 2 years on average to reach a final appeal in Wisconsin.

Also anyone (resident or non-resident) can file an FOIA claim in Wisconsin and charges are to set to actual costs. There is no timeline mandated to respond, the law states "respond within a reasonable time."

 

[photographer4]

Are there portable scanners on which you can hear if police is on the way? And can you find out if there would have been such a device at the scene. Can they be pinged or something?

Many police scanners can be heard via apps on cell phones these days. Many can’t as they are encrypted and not available. I haven’t heard any scanners from Barron via the app I use so I don’t know if it’s available or not.

 

[Molly_L]

As always, this case has been on my mind every day. Thought I'd share what I'm thinking could have happened.
I don't believe anyone saw her playing in her yard and came back to get her. Their property had so many trees blocking the highway - plus a HIGHWAY... that's not easy to park and stare/study a child as someone could if it were a normal street. SO... assuming they were targeting her, they had to have seen her elsewhere besides her house. Dance? I'm unsure.

The thing that has always bugged me is if they wanted Jayme, why not take her in a way that did not require committing a double homicide? A thought about that -- let's just say the person discovered her elsewhere and she came home and told her parents about someone who scared her. If the perp knew/assumed she'd say something to her parents about him he'd have to remove them or they'd be able to tell police about him after the kidnapping.

Eh, even as I type this I'm questioning myself... haha! I just want to make sense of all of this!

 

[jayaxx]

Wisconsin's FOIA is pretty standard

"Police records are presumed public and, like all records, their release is subject to the common law balancing test. The Wisconsin Atty Gen in 1988 issued a directive that states, some cases, the police department withholds records claiming their release may interfere with an ongoing investigation.

Unfortunately, seems they have wide latitude to argue ANYTHING "MAY" interfere. Hopefully, eventually will figure out a way to release all of most of the call, withholding any specific items that they deem problematic

 

[bellyup]

Thoughts on SAR dogs ... They follow the freshest scent. Any dogs being used by LE for tracking are trained to do this and with FBIs early involvement I have zero doubt that any dogs used in the first few days were near 100% accurate. Regardless of weather.

They even called in an electronic detection dog (these aren’t common and he likely came from quite the distance). I have assumed that this late in the case if anything the dogs found was useful it would have been used. If they said Jaymes trail stopped in the driveway, I’m confident it stopped in the driveway.

Then again, I have more confidence in a K-9 officer than I ever will any human officer.

 

[doktor57]

As always, this case has been on my mind every day. Thought I'd share what I'm thinking could have happened.
I don't believe anyone saw her playing in her yard and came back to get her. Their property had so many trees blocking the highway - plus a HIGHWAY... that's not easy to park and stare/study a child as someone could if it were a normal street. SO... assuming they were targeting her, they had to have seen her elsewhere besides her house. Dance? I'm unsure.

The thing that has always bugged me is if they wanted Jayme, why not take her in a way that did not require committing a double homicide? A thought about that -- let's just say the person discovered her elsewhere and she came home and told her parents about someone who scared her. If the perp knew/assumed she'd say something to her parents about him he'd have to remove them or they'd be able to tell police about him after the kidnapping.

Eh, even as I type this I'm questioning myself... haha! I just want to make sense of all of this!

Commit the crime just after midnight, kill the parents. If you are lucky, no one is reported missing for at least eight, possibly more, hours. You could be five hundred miles away

 

[iluvmua]

At this point, I would be shocked if they found her alive.

If she is alive, then she is probably many states away by now.

Jmo.

 

[cluciano63]

Commit the crime just after midnight, kill the parents. If you are lucky, no one is reported missing for at least eight, possibly more, hours. You could be five hundred miles away

That may have been the plan. But even with LE arriving within literally just a few minutes, they seem to have vanished with little or no useful trace.

I still cannot imagine a scenario where Jayme would be alive now, if she was not the target. The feeding, care, clothing and concealment of a teenager is not something that is easily accomplished without plans in place. Jmo

 

[DutchTreat]

Many police scanners can be heard via apps on cell phones these days. Many can’t as they are encrypted and not available. I haven’t heard any scanners from Barron via the app I use so I don’t know if it’s available or not.

But a cell phone can be traced. And I guess they could even find out if someone was using an app at the scene.
I did find portable police scanners (Dutch). Maybe one of you guys can tell me more about US scanners. Can such a scanner be traced?

What puzzles me is if the perp found out via a scanner that police was dispatched. Someone had to disconnect Denise's phone. I can't imagine it was one of the victims. So how did the perp find out?

 

[mks762]

Or she fought maybe scratched or bit and got their DNA and they knew it so they brought her with them.

I'm solidly in the camp that believes she was the intended target however this is the only theory that has made me think something else could be possible. This would explain why Jayme is missing but I still don't really know what other motive I can logically come up with if that was the case though.

 

[DutchTreat]

But a cell phone can be traced. And I guess they could even find out if someone was using an app at the scene.
I did find portable police scanners (Dutch). Maybe one of you guys can tell me more about US scanners. Can such a scanner be traced?

What puzzles me is if the perp found out via a scanner that police was dispatched. Someone had to disconnect Denise's phone. I can't imagine it was one of the victims. So how did the perp find out?

Also, the neighbours could have called the police after the first gunshot (at 12.30 ?). If you knew (perp), that you were gonna go in shooting, it would be a smart thing to make sure you would know when police was dispatched.