GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

[Steelhead]

No murder victim is a saint, as no person is perfect.

I understand the need for an explanation as to the “why” here. I’d love to have that answer myself.

The only thing we can say with any degree of certainty, is that he wanted a fresh start.

But to say that she did something that caused him to do this, still doesn’t explain his actions.

Because of the kids.

Marriages deteriorate. Both parties generally share some responsibility for that.

Accusing her of all sorts of innapropriate behavior, does not explain the leap from divorce, to mass murder.

It doesn’t help us explain the “why,” and only serves to tarnish an innocent victim.

Only he can explain why he decided to kill his entire family, and dispose of their bodies like they were trash.

He killed his family because he is a selfish sociopath who is as evil as he is stupid.

Theorizing as to the specific stressors, and blaming Shanann for them, isn’t productive.

I agree. So what’s left to sleuth?

 

[Trudie]

Wasn’t SWs dad appointed executor? Her name is on the deed, as we all know, but I’m not sure if she’s an “owner” or if she’s an heir (on the document). If he established the loan, idk how he could add someone to it after the fact. In my state, one cannot.
I think it will go to foreclosure, perhaps.
Or maybe the builder, a local, or the HOA might assume it?

 

[Trudie]

Hln covering CW now.

 

[PommyMommy]

It doesn't matter. And I can't speak for everyone but the only time I feel like bringing up or disputing how much she actually made with Thrive is in response to other people posting things about how much she made or she made more than him. I just think there is so much opinion stated as fact, , so we ought to be able to establish what actual facts are. But I totally agree and have been repeatedly saying it's no reason to kill her. It's even in what you quoted from me! "(Mind you I am NOT saying that's a reason to kill her, I don't care if she was taking all their money and setting it on literal fire you don't kill her much less the babies)"

READ the discovery.

pg 520 (Discovery pg 587)
SHANANN made between $65,000-$70,000 a year with Thrive.
SHANANN had approximately 200 people who are signed up under her.

Also: GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

 

[MsBetsy]

Hoping to move along the conversation-- I have been wondering about some of Inmate Watts' searches.

Metallica lyrics -- could that song have been pounding in his head and he wanted to check the lyrics? Could he have misheard the lyrics as "have to kill the family" or "can I kill the family"? Also, was this the band Shannan so sweetly got him tickets to see for his bday? It was something heavy metal. And it seemed she was trying to hard to be good to someone who was maybe not being great already. There was something in that video that felt that way.

Volcano image -- some but of geology he talked about with NK? Wanted to impress her?

When to say I love you and how hearing it should make one feel -- possibly just because he lacks genuine emotions, but also could he have been seeking NK's POV? Did she feel at first that he had said it too soon, and it scared her or whatever, and he was trying to assess HER feelings? He seems spectacularly lacking in true empathy or theory of mind.

His emotional range seems to be sexual high, and simmering anger. When he races back to the house because NUA DID call police and wouldn't leave it alone, he seems to be seething.

As far as the Metallica lyrics are concerned I think he knew exactly what the words were. It was his favorite band. The way people interpret songs and lryrics is individual and unique. I think it was very meaningful to him. Maybe he listened to it before the murder to psych himself up. Maybe he even fantasized about killing them long before that when he listened to the song. I don't know how old it is. At any rate it would appear he related to those particular lyrics. Sick.
I think the picture of the volcano is a sexual thing. Even the flowers are symbolic of sexuality.
It's perplexing that he would even relate to art or music in terms of expressing emotions, since he didn't seem to understand them. But I do think he was emotional when it came to his own "feelings." It was all about how things made him "feel." Maybe the Metallica lyrics was his way of trying to connect with his own feelings or in some sick way help him justify the need to eliminate the family, which he viewed as his source of pain. Hard to say with this particular sicko.

 

[Lyndsay Moore]

BOOM! This right here. She knew.

I've been following updates on this dreadful case. I'm trying to reach some sort of closure, but there are still so many questions. I cannot stop thinking about the interview of CW’s father, RW when he said she was "sitting on her *advertiser censored** telling him what to do" about this visit to his son's house and what he oberved of SW's behavior. Then I recall how he asked CW on Friday, August 10th, “Did you delete your Facebook yet?” CW’s reply was, “Yes, Sir!” Would that indicate that he also KNEW?

 

[PommyMommy]

Can you show me the discovery page or pages? There was a lot in there and I thought it was just a statement we heard from Watts or NK? (And I don't take them at their word on anything)

I just posted a couple of them. It might help to read the previous threads as well. We do not have tax returns, if that's what you're looking for. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you for the redirect Abby...these are legitimate theories for the searches. Perhaps he googled the lyrics because he knew they were "aggressive" and he needed something to keep that adrenaline pumping for his next tasks of burying and dumping his beautiful wife and children in the most undignified and inhumane way? MOO

Sounds like the lyrics spoke to his (depraved) soul.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 182072]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
The actual facts point to this being a preplanned cold-blooded murder and not a rage killing at all as you put it.
NK was the one pushing him to get an apartment and probably to sell the house.
If he had actually planned to divorce her, he would have consulted a divorce attorney.
In fact, he didn't do any research about divorce at all.
His search histories included jewelry, luxury cars, travel and entertainment to woo NK with.
His evil idiotic plan was to tell his own friends and spiteful family that he had finally seen the light and was divorcing his 'shady' wife, so they would back up his absurd story about her taking his 'beloved' daughters, never to be seen again.
This means he planned to kill them a least 10-14 days beforehand.
Meanwhile he was brushing off his wife, for the most part, except that he did lead her to believe he was willing to work on their marriage in the days before he murdered them.
Even though his motive was to get a fresh start, he stupidly thought that other people would only believe that fathers could kill their entire family in a rage.

<modsnip - topic off limits>

 

[curiouschat]

READ the discovery.

pg 520 (Discovery pg 587)
SHANANN made between $65,000-$70,000 a year with Thrive.
SHANANN had approximately 200 people who are signed up under her.

GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

Ok that page is a list of things Chris Watts initially told the police, when he was still saying how he didn't know where anyone was, they were working on things, and it's mostly pretty positive stuff. (And once again I am not saying that even IF she was spending more than she made or not actually bringing in this or that amount, that that was ANY reason to kill her.)

 

[Layla123]

<modsnip - quoted post removed> < modsnip - personalizing>

I hold CW 100% responsible for the demise of his family. When he annihillated his family, I believe he caused the kind of pain that never goes away to every person who knew him, Shanann, and their children, including NK. I see NK as a victim, too, because CW lied to her about everything. As a result I feel an urge to defend her every time someone attacks her. I don’t believe the things people say about her are fair or accurate. It comes across to me like mob mentality, like “The Scarlet Letter,” and I think NK is deserving of compassion and understanding. When I respond to criticisms of her, I do so, hoping I can present a different perspective, and maybe change a mind or two. I can understand how frightened and embarrassed NK must have been during those interviews. I can understand why she would want to protect her friends and herself. I don’t expect her to be a martyr, I don’t think it was necessary. CW committed these murders, not NK. She did destroy evidence, but when she destroyed that evidence she wasn’t thinking about it as evidence, she was thinking about it as pieces of CW, and she felt such a repulsion for him she wanted to remove every remnant of him from her life as quickly and thoroughly as she could. I understand that. I know many women who have done the exactly the same under the same circumstances, except for the murder part. I’ve said this a million times, though, and nobody agrees with me. Does that make me wrong? I don’t think so. Does that make me obsessed? I don’t think so. How long am I going to continue defending NK? I don’t know. Doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Several months have gone by, maybe NK is doing better now, maybe she’s suicidal, maybe she’s started drinking heavily. I don’t know. I hope she has a strong support system around her, and she’s doing well.

<modsnip - discussing PMs>

I don’t know. This is an Internet forum. We’re all anonymous. I think Websleuths is the best one out there. I love the rules. I don’t think I’m obsessed with NK, it’s just when I receive comments contradicting mine I feel an urge to write back.
<modsnip - discussing PMs>

 

[x_files]

I've been following updates on this dreadful case. I'm trying to reach some sort of closure, but there are still so many questions. I cannot stop thinking about the interview of CW’s father, RW when he said she was "sitting on her *advertiser censored** telling him what to do" about this visit to his son's house and what he oberved of SW's behavior. Then I recall how he asked CW on Friday, August 10th, “Did you delete your Facebook yet?” CW’s reply was, “Yes, Sir!” Would that indicate that he also KNEW?

That his father Ronnie knew of NK? or the affair? I'm not sure I follow. Please clarify.
I do think CW told his parents about the affair. Didn't Cindy say they knew about the affair in her interview?
So, they knew about NK. Not sure SW's knew and was just blindsided or had a gut feeling.

 

[stmarysmead]

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>
He confessed to the killing, not the circumstances. Case closed. If the authorities have proof of premediatation, I confess to missing it and I’d like to see it, because I’m truly interested in the night in question. If they have proof, not speculation of premeditation, that would decrease my interest in that aspect of the case.

I don’t think there is any one motive. But I do think this was a toxic marriage, and many different factors led to the tragedy.

<modsnip - topic off limits>

As far as believing him, if we believe his confession, then we consent to “believing” him.

I would never post any of thes3 thoughts or questions on a memorial thread. But this is a sleuthing thread, and there’s a difference. The discussion of a specific crime should not be taken like a retort to a eulogy.

 

[PommyMommy]

It seems to me like there is a lot of paranoia. Maybe there is good reason because I haven't been consistently following these boards since day 1 but geeze. I brought up something from the discovery documents I hadn't seen discussed and got accused of being family myself. (I'm so not lol but I don't know how to prove that sort of thing). I just found it pretty off putting.

I absolutely believe he killed them all and there's nothing she could have done to deserve that. I just don't like seeing everyone else that /we/ don't know had anything to do with it absolutely dragged through the mud and attacked and then anyone who even tries to speculate that there could have been some other sides to what the family or mistress were hearing or seeing is accused of being in some conspiracy. And I don't know how to even discuss finances without some questioning of how much actual salary she made through thrive vs credits or free trips, or however it worked. without being accused of victim shaming (it's not to me -- he was into Thrive too!).

Per our VI, @isalybra, her trips were paid by the company due to her SUCCESS.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

"I'm new to this forum and have tried to catch up on everything that is being said. My brother questioned NA's reaction the same as you all are and I'll clarify for you as well. Shanann stayed in contact with her team religiously, she had a planner in which she scheduled out her entire day with phone calls, training, conferences etc. Those on her team that were seriously in it to hit ranks stayed in constant contact ALL THE TIME. We become like family and NA was one of the closest to Shan and one of her best promotors. They were always in contact. What CW said in his interview about her talking to her people more consistently was accurate. As far as plane tickets, for the company trips (vacations) and whatnot, those got paid for by the company because of her rank. Yes CW had his car bonus as well as her. This is from someone who knew her and very much adored her. Just trying to clear up some quick things I caught but I have not read through all 48 pages"

 

[sun16]

Will be appearing on CNN Headline News (HLN) at 11:30 AM PDT / 2:30 PM EDT talking about Chris Watts being moved from the Colorado DOC to the Wisconsin DOC

Great, thanks. Larry—the money that family or random people send to an inmate that goes into their commisary account. Does/Can the government or LE take a percentage cut of that?

 

[kay74]

Despite Chris's mother putting him against Shanann that 5 weeks she was gone triggered this. Shanann even said this disintegration of their marriage happened in the last weeks and she didn't know why. He was a free bachelor and went after NK. Even if and do we not know, he flirted with NK before that, she should have stayed home sensing something was wrong. She found out what was wrong when she got home from her trip and things exploded, kids woke up and witnessed it and that is why they were killed too. Chris might have tried to save their marriage even with NK tempting him but Mama Watts told him bad things about Shanann so in his mind he didn't want her anymore either. The thing is why in the heck didn't Chris in his rage, get in his truck, take off, go away but he couldn't, his rage overcame everything, it overtook him.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if or who is paying the Mortgage in Fredrick CO? Does anybody have any info on this?

I don't know, but I think it's up to Shananns family as to what to do with it. I can't imagine them having any reason to hold onto it, they may not be paying mortgage at all and it will just go into foreclosure. I would think it would be easy to look it up and find out what the status is if anyone is interested.

 

[Lyndsay Moore]

That his father Ronnie knew of NK? or the affair? I'm not sure I follow. Please clarify.
I do think CW told his parents about the affair. Didn't Cindy say they knew about the affair in her interview?
So, they knew about NK. Not sure SW's knew and was just blindsided or had a gut feeling.

I'm sorry for the confusion. It seems that both parents and sister knew about his new love interest, but I saw a conversation between CW and RW on Friday, August 12th, in which RW was saying he wanted to facetime with the girls while Shan'ann was away on her business trip. He told CW he did not want to get his son in trouble with SW. During that same conversation, he asked his son if he had deleted his Facebook. It sounded like RW had told CW to delete it, as well as NK.

Did both NK and RW KNOW about CW's plan to eliminate his wife and children? CW informed both of them with the same words, "They're gone."

 

[Steelhead]

Coder's story of the two Chris's was my favourite.

"Which Chris am I talking to right now?"

Of course Watts should have just told him to stop being silly. There is only one Chris. The innocent one.

But instead Watts played along with the idea, in essence admitting that he played two different roles

It’s like he has no sense of self. He relies on others to tell him who he is and never objects.

I know this is going to come out wrong, but CW seems like the kind of guy who needs permission to do anything and so maybe, from CW’s perspective, when he finally got the gumption to tell SW he wanted to separate and she essentially said no, the only other option in HIS mind was to do the unthinkable. I wonder what would have happened if she “allowed” him the separation? Would they be alive?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Hln covering CW now.

I did a rewind on the show, and it showed up about 20 seconds of him at the neighbors when the neighbor was showing his truck backing in and speaking about it. When he had his hands on his head.