OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[IQuestion]

It's interesting to go back in time and read news of rumours. Last summer, the rumour was that 2 of the defendants had been arrested.

Social media explodes, but no information in Rhoden murder case - Portsmouth Daily Times

Is it possible to have a TIME LINE reference thread? Ie. HMR moved out? What time victims were discovered? and by whom? Time Reader called in AG's office. When "W bros" bought their house, when they took a $75K equity line on it, then sold property?
When they went to Alaska to live?, When their property was searched and FW's farm were searched, May 2018?? (I am thinking something had to have been found at one of those two locations in order for LE to feel "they needed to question FW" via the Grand Jury, June 2018? ....makes me think some evidence was found on her property.) Then, did FW call the family in Alaska, and tell them to come home, "The heat is on" iykwim From the arraignment info, "things she wasn't supposed to discuss, right? (Just a big guess here, but I don't think it was to her hair dresser. BTW I wear my hair on the long side and I don't go to a hair dresser. Just thinking she does not share her confidences with anyone outside her family.) Did FW have a family meeting at her house to tell them it was time to start making escape plans?
After attorney described her as, "a tough ole bird..." "speaks her mind" "believes strongly in her son's innocence" etc. I got the feeling she will talk to whomever she wants and feels that is her business/privilege. (I once had a detective tell me, "You can n the FBI's most wanted person in he U.S., but y0ur Mama always knows where you are.")

 

[Myland]

It's interesting to go back in time and read news of rumours. Last summer, the rumour was that 2 of the defendants had been arrested.

Social media explodes, but no information in Rhoden murder case - Portsmouth Daily Times

I can for sure say the original post was only of Bci and unmarked cars being at Wagners. However rumors did grow that night into an arrest that was not true. But the Bci was absolutely at Wagners Farm that night.

 

[Betty P]

Is it possible to have a TIME LINE reference thread? Ie. HMR moved out? What time victims were discovered? and by whom? Time Reader called in AG's office. When "W bros" bought their house, when they took a $75K equity line on it, then sold property?
When they went to Alaska to live?, When their property was searched and FW's farm were searched, May 2018?? (I am thinking something had to have been found at one of those two locations in order for LE to feel "they needed to question FW" via the Grand Jury, June 2018? ....makes me think some evidence was found on her property.) Then, did FW call the family in Alaska, and tell them to come home, "The heat is on" iykwim From the arraignment info, "things she wasn't supposed to discuss, right? (Just a big guess here, but I don't think it was to her hair dresser.) Did FW have a family meeting at her house to tell them it was time to start making escape plans?
After attorney described her as, "a tough ole bird..." "speaks her mind" "believes strongly in her son's innocence" etc. I got the feeling she will talk to whomever she wants and feels that is her business/privilege. (I once had a detective tell me, "You can n the FBI's most wanted person in he U.S., but y0ur Mama always knows where you are.")

Yes, we have one already! We started it around the second day or so after the murders.

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

The most recent timeline is somewhere around page 9. It hasn't been updated since the arrests. We always welcome volunteers who want to help out, so appreciate any interest!

Please post links to news articles and video!

ETA: Link to most recent timeline page

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

 

[Betty P]

I can for sure say the original post was only of Bci and unmarked cars being at Wagners. However rumors did grow that night into an arrest that was not true. But the Bci was absolutely at Wagners Farm that night.

Does anyone know where that information came from? I'm not doubting it, but IIRC, there was nothing about it in the news media. Did someone see the cars there?

 

[pepper 34]

I don't think her new home was part of the motivation. DeWine said the W's had been planning this since January 1, 2016. That was months before DR got her new home. She bought the home in March, I think on the 20th of March a month before the murders and over three months after the planning began.

JMO

The new home didn't have to be one of the motivations way back during the early planning stages though. (As you say, the new house wasn't on the scene when the W's began planning the murders.) I think buying that home was just one more statement that irritated the W's a whole lot because, I'm pretty sure, the W's would have been telling the R's the place where S was living was completely unsuitable, dirty and crowded, etc, and "no judge is going to rule against us and let you keep custody of S." They may have thought there was no way the R's could come up with enough money to buy a nice place. But, surprise... then the R's did buy a nice place.
"We (the R's) now have a nice place for S and the new baby. You lose again."
Kind of like one more huge straw loaded up onto the camel's back iow. Other motivation, other than custody, I am guessing is a business deal or deals with the W's feeling ripped off or betrayed or the R's somehow gaining the upper hand on some negative knowledge about the W's.
The house would just be adding insult to injury imo. I think the W's thought they would solve multiple problems with those murders... and thought they had, too, when they pulled it all off that night. I bet they thought they had fixed all their problems on April 22 until they started running into LE snags.

 

[Myland]

Does anyone know where that information came from? I'm not doubting it, but IIRC, there was nothing about it in the news media. Did someone see the cars there?

 

[Betty P]

The new home didn't have to be one of the motivations way back during the early planning stages though. (As you say, the new house wasn't on the scene when the W's began planning the murders.) I think buying that home was just one more statement that irritated the W's a whole lot because, I'm pretty sure, the W's would have been telling the R's the place where S was living was completely unsuitable, dirty and crowded, etc, and "no judge is going to rule against us and let you keep custody of S." They may have thought there was no way the R's could come up with enough money to buy a nice place. But, surprise... then the R's did buy a nice place.
"We (the R's) now have a nice place for S and the new baby. You lose again."
Kind of like one more huge straw loaded up onto the camel's back iow. Other motivation, other than custody, I am guessing is a business deal or deals with the W's feeling ripped off or betrayed or the R's somehow gaining the upper hand on some negative knowledge about the W's.
The house would just be adding insult to injury imo. I think the W's thought they would solve multiple problems with those murders... and thought they had, too, when they pulled it all off that night. I bet they thought they had fixed all their problems on April 22 until they started running into LE snags.

The theory of a bad business deal has been bandied about by most of us for some time. JMO, it seems more likely that the bad deal was the reverse - the Wagners may have ripped off CR1 & KR. The Rhodens didn't have any record or known reputation for stealing from anyone, but GWIII and AW certainly did. Maybe the W's owed money to the Rhodens and were threatened by CR1 if they didn't repay it. Maybe in their twisted minds, they thought getting rid of the whole family would solve the bad business deal and the custody dispute.

 

[kaykay543]

Does anyone know where that information came from? I'm not doubting it, but IIRC, there was nothing about it in the news media. Did someone see the cars there?

The media did say the police were there and would not comment.

I think the rumor of arrests started on a topix post/forum JMO

 

[pepper 34]

The theory of a bad business deal has been bandied about by most of us for some time. JMO, it seems more likely that the bad deal was the reverse - the Wagners may have ripped off CR1 & KR. The Rhodens didn't have any record or known reputation for stealing from anyone, but GWIII and AW certainly did. Maybe the W's owed money to the Rhodens and were threatened by CR1 if they didn't repay it. Maybe in their twisted minds, they thought getting rid of the whole family would solve the bad business deal and the custody dispute.

There I go, not being clear again. I worry my comments are too long and so I kind of try to cut back on words but end up using too many words anyway and not being clear in the bargain. Here, I'll quote myself from the comment you replied to...

"....with the W's feeling ripped off or betrayed or the R's..."

And, unclear is that I should have emphasized the word "feeling" ripped off or betrayed. Iow, their perception or just how they do business all the time with everybody... ie; make yourself the victim and the other guy the bad guy. (... and make sure to send that out there on the gossip train with bells ringing.)
To be very clear, I do not suspect that the R's actually did rip the W's off. I have a feeling, myself... that there is more than one party who wished they never got involved in any business deals with W3. But, that is just a feeling, in all fairness. And, finally, I do not think Sheriff Reader's and Gov Dewine's opinions and feelings towards the R's would have appeared to change so much for what seems the more positive if they had learned of any cut throat business practices pulled off by the R's towards the W's. The other way around? Maybe... and that might be why Sheriff Reader is referring to the entire R family more kindly as of late.

 

[pepper 34]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

I think, even with the 4 W's in jail and safely locked up, it would still take some people an awful lot of courage to go to LE. I'd have to give it some real serious thought myself but I would probably eventually go to LE with any information I had. Theoretically, there should be 2 other witnesses to JW's threat... the 3d being Hanna, already murdered.

 

[rsd1200]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Wow! I have a theory that CH was the tipping point. Based on HMR's Twitter feed, FB Timelines, and those of CG, HHG, and other family members, I have wondered if JW either cheated on, or greatly let HMR down not long after their fourth anniversary as a couple (August 2014). Not long after, she was gone. She went from looking forward to marrying "her best friend", in August of 2014, to a comment about trust in Oct., on to a new-to-her car, in Nov. 2014, and then on to CG. CG, I believe, not too long after JW, as a break-up rebound. He'd have been the perfect candidate, since he'd likely been hanging around FR, due to FR seeing HHG.

HMR and JW call a "break". They're gonna see other people. You never see any pics of CG & HMR on her main FB, not to mention them with S. In fact, HMR makes a separate FB, entirely, to announce their new relationship, in May of 2015. Then, they break up a few weeks later. K was conceived.

HMR and CG are busted up by around the end of July/1st of Aug or so. I do believe that HMR may have had a brief, weak, moment around their "5th anniversary" and she and JW had a last fling (it could have given him a small hope that K was his).

HMR was seeing CH shortly after Aug., and by October, 2015 she had posted that she and CH are in a relationship. She announces it on her real FB, and posts pictures of not only them, together, but of a pregnant her, S, and CH, all seemingly very happy together. Her mom comments that she's happy if her daughter is happy. There's even a candid shot of CH holding S. I think that JW saw that CH was not a fling. What if HMR moved in with CH? He could potentially be the new father figure to a W child, maybe two! He would lose them all. They would lose them all. What would happen to the alternating weeks?

I also believe that the Rs had something over on the Ws. and as long as the Rs were alive, they would have it to hold over them. Otherwise, all the Ws would have had to have done is call LE and drop a dime on the grows, before DR moved. Call CPS too. For some reason, they couldn't/didn't do either of those things. I believe the OP a couple threads up, was right, they were afraid of the Rs.

 

[rsd1200]

There I go, not being clear again. I worry my comments are too long and so I kind of try to cut back on words but end up using too many words anyway and not being clear in the bargain. Here, I'll quote myself from the comment you replied to...

"....with the W's feeling ripped off or betrayed or the R's..."

And, unclear is that I should have emphasized the word "feeling" ripped off or betrayed. Iow, their perception or just how they do business all the time with everybody... ie; make yourself the victim and the other guy the bad guy. (... and make sure to send that out there on the gossip train with bells ringing.)
To be very clear, I do not suspect that the R's actually did rip the W's off. I have a feeling, myself... that there is more than one party who wished they never got involved in any business deals with W3. But, that is just a feeling, in all fairness. And, finally, I do not think Sheriff Reader's and Gov Dewine's opinions and feelings towards the R's would have appeared to change so much for what seems the more positive if they had learned of any cut throat business practices pulled off by the R's towards the W's. The other way around? Maybe... and that might be why Sheriff Reader is referring to the entire R family more kindly as of late.

FWIW, I understood what you meant.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Yes, in retrospect, that decision was somewhat unfair to surviving family members. At that point (August 2016) I think LE was still focused incorrectly on the Rhoden and Manley family members as suspects. JMO, that's also part of the reason why they decided to confiscate and lock up the homes of family members. Same with refusal to turn over property (family Bible) that had no bearing on the investigation, but had sentimental value to surviving family. LE and prosecutors wrongly assumed family members were involved in the murders or were withholding information about the killers, hence some punitive measures. IIRC, they also put up some barriers to TR, LM and others who were trying to settle the estates of the victims.

At least there's some comfort in knowing they eventually changed their minds about this approach.

I see your point. But it is telling me the people close to the victims did not suspect the Ws in the first months. Otherwise they would have understood the Sheriff's comment.

Can we say the children or their custodians were safe with the Gs or with the Rs given what we know today?

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Wow! I have a theory that CH was the tipping point. Based on HMR's Twitter feed, FB Timelines, and those of CG, HHG, and other family members, I have wondered if JW either cheated on, or greatly let HMR down not long after their fourth anniversary as a couple (August 2014). Not long after, she was gone. She went from looking forward to marrying "her best friend", in August of 2014, to a comment about trust in Oct., on to a new-to-her car, in Nov. 2014, and then on to CG. CG, I believe, not too long after JW, as a break-up rebound. He'd have been the perfect candidate, since he'd likely been hanging around FR, due to FR seeing HHG.

HMR and JW call a "break". They're gonna see other people. You never see any pics of CG & HMR on her main FB, not to mention them with S. In fact, HMR makes a separate FB, entirely, to announce their new relationship, in May of 2015. Then, they break up a few weeks later. K was conceived.

HMR and CG are busted up by around the end of July/1st of Aug or so. I do believe that HMR may have had a brief, weak, moment around their "5th anniversary" and she and JW had a last fling (it could have given him a small hope that K was his).

HMR was seeing CH shortly after Aug., and by October, 2015 she had posted that she and CH are in a relationship. She announces it on her real FB, and posts pictures of not only them, together, but of a pregnant her, S, and CH, all seemingly very happy together. Her mom comments that she's happy if her daughter is happy. There's even a candid shot of CH holding S. I think that JW saw that CH was not a fling. What if HMR moved in with CH? He could potentially be the new father figure to a W child, maybe two! He would lose them all. They would lose them all. What would happen to the alternating weeks?

I also believe that the Rs had something over on the Ws. and as long as the Rs were alive, they would have it to hold over them. Otherwise, all the Ws would have had to have done is call LE and drop a dime on the grows, before DR moved. Call CPS too. For some reason, they couldn't/didn't do either of those things. I believe the OP a couple threads up, was right, they were afraid of the Rs.

Good point. Maybe we'll learn something about GW3 or JW.

It could be as simple as count 23 should be read as count 1.

If the defendants really committed this crime. I would investigate previous unsolved cases as well...

 

[Trudie]

I

I don't think her new home was part of the motivation. DeWine said the W's had been planning this since January 1, 2016. That was months before DR got her new home. She bought the home in March, I think on the 20th of March a month before the murders and over three months after the planning began.

JMO

Iirc, Angela knew DR was getting a new trailer. They purchased it well before it was delivered & set up.
Ridiculous to be so jealous of someone’s home.....

 

[Trudie]

I think, even with the 4 W's in jail and safely locked up, it would still take some people an awful lot of courage to go to LE. I'd have to give it some real serious thought myself but I would probably eventually go to LE with any information I had. Theoretically, there should be 2 other witnesses to JW's threat... the 3d being Hanna, already murdered.

I so agree about the courage needed factor. I have also considered what LE may have encountered had they arrested the 4Ws at their home. Wonder if it might have turned into a big shoot out. Do you see daddy W surrender willingly? I don’t. I think they would have loved taking LE out.

 

[Jennifer17]

I see your point. But it is telling me the people close to the victims did not suspect the Ws in the first months. Otherwise they would have understood the Sheriff's comment.

Can we say the children or their custodians were safe with the Gs or with the Rs given what we know today?

I am pretty sure that Dana's father suspected them straight away. Within a few days he was saying it was over custody.

 

[rsd1200]

The media did say the police were there and would not comment.

I think the rumor of arrests started on a topix post/forum JMO

Is this the one?

BCI: Posts about arrests in Pike County massacre are just 'bad Facebook rumors'

Pike County massacre: 2 properties searched, no arrests

 

[pepper 34]

I so agree about the courage needed factor. I have also considered what LE may have encountered had they arrested the 4Ws at their home. Wonder if it might have turned into a big shoot out. Do you see daddy W surrender willingly? I don’t. I think they would have loved taking LE out.

I hardly dared to say this, but I think the planning for the night of the murders also included a conversation about what to do if the W's encountered LE during their "travels". That's why I think, at the very least, the correct or proper license plate would not have been on the vehicle used that night.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I


Iirc, Angela knew DR was getting a new trailer. They purchased it well before it was delivered & set up.
Ridiculous to be so jealous of someone’s home.....

The trailer wasn't purchased by CRSR as new, nor did it get delivered. It had been on that property for a few years. Chris's sister, (Brenda's) in-laws used to own it.. Weisel's.