AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[MassGuy]

The 911 Call is Key IMHO

I think Denise made the call at the very beginning of this confrontation and this is the yelling between them and James heard by dispatch. Maybe the perp(s) kicked in the door before she even connected. The 911 call is what gives LE this locked in timeline IMO, especially now that Sheriff Fitzgerald addressed the neighbors account as unsubstantiated. Perhaps they've heard some of the "what" but not the "who" involved?

Short methodical timeline......disturbance, confrontation, killing, abduction and departure from the scene in minutes. Somebody had a serious agenda here. Revenge/rage or desire for Jayme, I'm just torn between the two. Either way poor, dear Jayme

Again, JMHO

I agree. That 911 call is definitely what allowed them to basically discount the neighbor’s account.

I was never sold on the idea that they heard gunshots at that particular time, as the method of entry isn’t one that generally lends itself to the perpetrator(s) hanging around.

You don’t go in fast and loud, just to remain on the scene for any length of time.

I think they went there with a purpose, and that purpose was Jayme.

I am still open to the idea that this was a revenge type crime, that morphed into something else though.

 

[ilovechili]

The 911 Call is Key IMHO

I think Denise made the call at the very beginning of this confrontation and this is the yelling between them and James heard by dispatch. Maybe the perp(s) kicked in the door before she even connected. The 911 call is what gives LE this locked in timeline IMO, especially now that Sheriff Fitzgerald addressed the neighbors account as unsubstantiated. Perhaps they've heard some of the "what" but not the "who" involved?

Short methodical timeline......disturbance, confrontation, killing, abduction and departure from the scene in minutes. Somebody had a serious agenda here. Revenge/rage or desire for Jayme, I'm just torn between the two. Either way poor, dear Jayme

Again, JMHO

This fits extremely well with the 5 feet, 4 minute scenario and makes absolutely perfect sense. But then, most likely gunshots were heard on the 911 call is where it catches me. Which I guess could be the case with both parents shot during the call and it simply has not been shared with us and is part of the reason the family has not had it shared with them either, too intense and hurtful plus it is evidence of time, etc. No hint of shots fired in the call log but maybe they do not do that or they can mention some things off record to their officers before they respond? Is that possible, does anyone know the protocol with such things? But for that, this is the most likely scenario I have seen/read, etc. based on the bit we know. It is just odd that it would be a hang up call and nothing heard when shots should have been clearly heard?

Or possibly the call did not connect until after parents were shot...? Could it have been Jayme and the perp heard yelling instead? She is freaking out, her parents have been shot and he is screaming at her to come while holding a gun pointed at her? Because if the parents were shot before the call connected, they would not have heard James and the perp yelling. To this day, like many have said, every single scenario seems to have a sticking point, it is so frustrating.

I tell myself it is best we not know if it helps their case and finds her but the instinct to want to help and see her found is also there, and to understand. And it is quite close to two months now... Prayers for this girl.

 

[MntnHiker]

I'm glad the sheriff has said the neighbors' account was unsubstantiated, as that is something we've wondered about here for awhile.

IMO only, I don't think the neighbors' account was nefarious. I think it's possible they either misread the time on the clock (I had asked at one point if either or both of them normally had to wear glasses or contacts but I don't think we have any way of knowing) OR that it started as a simple guesstimate of time and then they stuck with it. Like "Well, we had laid down around X time, so it had to have been around 12:30 or so." I tend to lean toward option 1, and then they kept doing interviews, so their timeline kept circulating.

IMO I don't think they are guilty of anything but being sort of busy bodies who live right next to a brutal crime scene and got swept up in the media interviews and being "right there." I could be wrong; JMO.

I do think this much shorter timeline makes sense with the "five feet in the house" comment. It's possible that if James was the first one killed as the perp came through the door that both Denise and Jayme came running out. I don't know how I would react in this situation. Even as a younger child/teen, if one of my parents was in mortal danger, I may try to run to them, even if my own life was in danger. It's possible the perp only had to go in a short ways because both other family members came running.

 

[ShaylaVale]

I have been assuming that the perp came through the front door too, but we have no verification that the bullets came from the outside in. Did they in fact come from the inside out? Was JC leaving and was shot from behind? That would allow the cabinet on the inside wall as well as the snowman to appear undamaged. But, on the other hand, could bullets go through the wooden door and not break the glass door?

I have been sick the past few days so I think I missed something. Can you please point me to the information about the cabinet, and snowman being damaged? Thanks bunches

 

[Rosiebones]

There are posted pictures in a previous thread that show a snowman statue and a glass fronted cabinet just inside the front door on the opposite wall. There is also an investigator dressed in a white overalls. I tried looking for it but honestly don't know how long ago it was posted. Help anyone?

 

[photographer4]

What if Jayme (at least initially) was kept somewhere very close to home? Maybe even so close that the perps car never reached a camera that could identify his vehicle.

Maybe the perp didn't even use a car? I am not super familiar with the area, but how possible it it perp could have held a gun to Jayme and marched her somewhere very nearby? One weirdo built caves under his home that lead to a bunker he dug not too far from a victim's home, and kept her there for quite awhile before she conned him into allowing her to play a game on his cell phone while he slept there one time. She used to text her mom that she was in an underground bunker, and could hear cars - she was found not long after texting her mom. It seems impossible, but is it really? Here is a link to that story for anyone interested: elizabeth-shoaf-girl-in-the-bunker-true-story

 

[photographer4]

I have been sick the past few days so I think I missed something. Can you please point me to the information about the cabinet, and snowman being damaged? Thanks bunches

I don't have the link but some of us thought we saw a cabinet inside the front door area, that seemed to have some decorations on it (from a photo in the media of the investigators working the front door area). However, I now wonder if the cabinet was actually there since this was described as an open floor plan by the Sheriff in the most recent DM article... :/

 

[Rosiebones]

I don't have the link but some of us thought we saw a cabinet inside the front door area, that seemed to have some decorations on it (from a photo in the media of the investigators working the front door area). However, I now wonder if the cabinet was actually there since this was described as an open floor plan by the Sheriff in the most recent DM article... :/

In a previous thread, it was thoroughly discussed that this cabinet was up against the wall that enclosed the stairs going down to the lower garage level. That doesn't mean it was there since we don't know the layout but it was very plausible. It is clearly there in the photo that I saw but can't find at the moment. Still looking.

 

[photographer4]

This fits extremely well with the 5 feet, 4 minute scenario and makes absolutely perfect sense. But then, most likely gunshots were heard on the 911 call is where it catches me. Which I guess could be the case with both parents shot during the call and it simply has not been shared with us and is part of the reason the family has not had it shared with them either, too intense and hurtful plus it is evidence of time, etc. No hint of shots fired in the call log but maybe they do not do that or they can mention some things off record to their officers before they respond? Is that possible, does anyone know the protocol with such things? But for that, this is the most likely scenario I have seen/read, etc. based on the bit we know. It is just odd that it would be a hang up call and nothing heard when shots should have been clearly heard?

Or possibly the call did not connect until after parents were shot...? Could it have been Jayme and the perp heard yelling instead? She is freaking out, her parents have been shot and he is screaming at her to come while holding a gun pointed at her? Because if the parents were shot before the call connected, they would not have heard James and the perp yelling. To this day, like many have said, every single scenario seems to have a sticking point, it is so frustrating.

I tell myself it is best we not know if it helps their case and finds her but the instinct to want to help and see her found is also there, and to understand. And it is quite close to two months now... Prayers for this girl.

Maybe there *are* gunshots on the tape? One at the beginning as perp breaches entry and one at the end when Denise is shot and a whole lot of screaming in between? I'm almost starting to lean that way now. If they heard a shot, then screaming, then shot then silence, that would certainly explain the super tight timeline.

 

[ShaylaVale]

In a previous thread, it was thoroughly discussed that this cabinet was up against the wall that enclosed the stairs going down to the lower garage level. That doesn't mean it was there since we don't know the layout but it was very plausible. It is clearly there in the photo that I saw but can't find at the moment. Still looking.

Thank you both for looking... Just because it was said to be an open floor plan they still could have a half wall, especially enclosing a staircase...

 

[elektroangel]

In the beginning I assumed the casino was a lot closer than it actually is. Fourteen miles or so away is a stretch for using surveillance cameras. But now they say they have footage in a thirty mile radius (I believe). It now does seem odd to have thought of it so quickly.

Not really. It is the only major property on the highway heading out of town that would likely have surveillance.

 

[stargazer17]

This fits extremely well with the 5 feet, 4 minute scenario and makes absolutely perfect sense. But then, most likely gunshots were heard on the 911 call is where it catches me. Which I guess could be the case with both parents shot during the call and it simply has not been shared with us and is part of the reason the family has not had it shared with them either, too intense and hurtful plus it is evidence of time, etc. No hint of shots fired in the call log but maybe they do not do that or they can mention some things off record to their officers before they respond? Is that possible, does anyone know the protocol with such things? But for that, this is the most likely scenario I have seen/read, etc. based on the bit we know. It is just odd that it would be a hang up call and nothing heard when shots should have been clearly heard?

Or possibly the call did not connect until after parents were shot...? Could it have been Jayme and the perp heard yelling instead? She is freaking out, her parents have been shot and he is screaming at her to come while holding a gun pointed at her? Because if the parents were shot before the call connected, they would not have heard James and the perp yelling. To this day, like many have said, every single scenario seems to have a sticking point, it is so frustrating.

I tell myself it is best we not know if it helps their case and finds her but the instinct to want to help and see her found is also there, and to understand. And it is quite close to two months now... Prayers for this girl.

I think if shots were heard on the 911 call, they would have had to note it in the call log and advise the responding officers for their safety. The responding officers responded to a 911 call hang up. JMO

 

[elektroangel]

Hunting season had not started when this happened. Starts mid-November.

Bow season was already in session. As well as gun season for those with disabilities. Also, plenty of hunters keep guns in their trucks regardless of what season it is.

 

[1987]

I don't have the still images of cabinet but in this video about 2:22 mark the cabinet is seen.

 

[Quill]

yeah i'm definitely leaning towards perp being a hunter.

Why?

 

[Jax49]

I don't have the still images of cabinet but in this video about 2:22 mark the cabinet is seen.

Thank you. About the 1:12 mark???

Also, right after that the glass door is carried away and looks to be undamaged, imo.

 

[1987]

about the neighbors, they are older and had been out that night, i feel there could be a shock factor to them too, it happened next door and not a long time after they got home, there may be a oh my it could have been us thought in their heads. stress makes some ramble and it seems media is who was there to listen to them ramble.

 

[1987]

Thank you. About the 1:12 mark???

Also, right after that the glass door is carried away and looks to be undamaged, imo.

I could have been wrong on the time mark. I called myself watching the time mark but who knows. it is in the video though.

 

[Jax49]

I could have been wrong on the time mark. I called myself watching the time mark but who knows. it is in the video though.

2:22 is the the very end - if someone finds a better shot than around 1:12 maybe they will let us know, tia.

I'm thrilled you found the video - it was going to be a long search for me.

 

[daisy6441]

Not really. It is the only major property on the highway heading out of town that would likely have surveillance.

But why jump to someone fleeing town right off the bat instead of looking locally? If the traveled east to the intersection and turned they could have also avoided police.