AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[Quill]

Bow season was already in session. As well as gun season for those with disabilities. Also, plenty of hunters keep guns in their trucks regardless of what season it is.

Keeping hunting guns in trucks used to be a thing 40-50 years ago, but not so much where I live anymore. They are too valuable and make the truck an easy mark for theft. No hunter I know carries his hunting gear around unless they are heading to the woods.

 

[ilovechili]

I think if shots were heard on the 911 call, they would have had to note it in the call log and advise the responding officers for their safety. The responding officers responded to a 911 call hang up. JMO

Thank you. That is what I wondered. So it is basically required. That would eliminate the call being made first most likely or the dispatcher would have heard shots. Of course though, the only reason we think it was a "big" gun with no silencer is because of the neighbor and now that seems to be in question.... Sometimes it seems like the more we hear, the less things fit together, instead of the other way around...

 

[1987]

thread num 25 post 1300 has a still image of snow man and cabinet. I don't know how to quote and bring that post over.

 

[ilovechili]

But why jump to someone fleeing town right off the bat instead of looking locally? If the traveled east to the intersection and turned they could have also avoided police.

They went to the plant fairly early on and to a few local residences per the call log anyhow. Yet I agree with you, with regard to a vehicle, they seemed to center in one direction at first insofar as cameras and searching and such. They could have went east and turned either to the north or south and possibly avoided law enforcement but it would have been fairly risky with two law enforcement agencies in town and one of them responding. However, whoever this was clearly thinks nothing of risk....

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thank you both for looking... Just because it was said to be an open floor plan they still could have a half wall, especially enclosing a staircase...

The video in this link clearly shows the cabinet at the 25 second mark:
911 call traced to phone of missing Wisconsin girl's mother, authorities say - CNN

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe there *are* gunshots on the tape? One at the beginning as perp breaches entry and one at the end when Denise is shot and a whole lot of screaming in between? I'm almost starting to lean that way now. If they heard a shot, then screaming, then shot then silence, that would certainly explain the super tight timeline.

It sure does fit well but the common consensus is the shots would have been mentioned in the call log for the safety of the officers. I wonder if there is any possible way they were not recognized as gunshots until the call was cleaned up.... Since the neighbor's account is now in question, is it possible he/they used a gun with a silencer and would that be difficult for the dispatcher to hear?

 

[ShaylaVale]

Yes I can clearly see what appears to be a hutch style cabinet beginning at the 26 second mark. It is straight across from the doorway. It sure doesn't look like a very big area/room. Thank you for posting the link...

 

[Rosiebones]

Seeing that cabinet there unbroken and no blood on it or at least not a lot makes me question how gunshots could have gone through the door from the outside and hit JC without breaking the glass or worse yet having blood all over it. I still wonder if he was hit and knocked unconscious and DC also, Jayme grabbed and then the two were shot on the perps way out to be sure they were dead and couldn't ID them.

 

[ShaylaVale]

Thank you everyone who looked for the cabinet. Then there was something about a snowman? Is he in the cabinet? Sorry I am working with an eye infection today and plan on taking the video into my laptop (on my tablet atm) where I can blow up the images in the video and look at it frame by frame. Unfortunately my health hasn't been very cooperative. It seems if it is not one thing it is another.

I went from Fibromyalgia, to severe kidney issues, to just being diagnosed with osteonecrosis, (the bones in my knee are dead)... Anyway my issues are small compared to what this family is going through...

 

[ShaylaVale]

Seeing that cabinet there unbroken and no blood on it or at least not a lot makes me question how gunshots could have gone through the door from the outside and hit JC without breaking the glass or worse yet having blood all over it. I still wonder if he was hit and knocked unconscious and DC also, Jayme grabbed and then the two were shot on the perps way out to be sure they were dead and couldn't ID them.

I thought the door was kicked in and then James was shot. He could have been standing to the left of the cabinet. (left as from us looking in through the door) So not much blood splatter got on the front side of the cabinet. It could all be on the side we can't see? Just my thoughts...

 

[Mistermagoo]

Maybe the perp didn't even use a car? I am not super familiar with the area, but how possible it it perp could have held a gun to Jayme and marched her somewhere very nearby? One weirdo built caves under his home that lead to a bunker he dug not too far from a victim's home, and kept her there for quite awhile before she conned him into allowing her to play a game on his cell phone while he slept there one time. She used to text her mom that she was in an underground bunker, and could hear cars - she was found not long after texting her mom. It seems impossible, but is it really? Here is a link to that story for anyone interested: elizabeth-shoaf-girl-in-the-bunker-true-story

BBM
I have thought to myself that it is possible that the perp may have parked at a different loc. That was debunked because the dog lost the scent or something like that. You have to think that the perp is very aware of cell phones and knows everybody has them. In the perps mind you would have to think that he/she/they must know there is a great possibility that someone can call 911.

This can only give more credit to the sheriff that this was a bang bang get in and out deal. However, imo, I would still think that before hand, the perp would have thought, what if everything doesn't go as planned? If you park by the Closs house and 911 is called, you possibly cannot got out because the police can block the driveway.

 

[Rosiebones]

thread 25 entry #1109 is a screen shot of the entryway with the cabinet and the snowman on the floor. I think his body had to fall to the right, into the open part of the house because the door would have swung open to the left. The hinges are on the left of the frame and the knob/lock is on the right (going by the splintered wood of the door frame) The living room would have probably been to the left because of the kind of window.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Not hunting season. Hunters really don't violate the law. This isn't the wilderness. A lot of hunting is on private land or state land. Hunting season started Nov 17. Jayme was kidnapped Oct 15.
Violation of the hunting season is a fine of not more than $1,000 - $2000 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both, and by a mandatory 3-year revocation of license.

Wait...but how does that mean perp wasn't a hunter? Could've hunted in the past and could've hunted after the crime. This person definitely had knowledge of firearms and how to shoot to kill. Could be a hunter, could be someone with a police or military background.

 

[Jax49]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/a29211ef-4666-4a1b-9add-419e8e18d00c-jpeg.157044/

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

 

[Mistermagoo]

I thought the door was kicked in and then James was shot. He could have been standing to the left of the cabinet. (left as from us looking in through the door) So not much blood splatter got on the front side of the cabinet. It could all be on the side we can't see? Just my thoughts...

I thought that he could be to the right of the cabinet towards the kitchen. That may explain why kitchen chair ( If it was a kitchen chair) has damage to it

 

[girlhasnoname]

Seeing that cabinet there unbroken and no blood on it or at least not a lot makes me question how gunshots could have gone through the door from the outside and hit JC without breaking the glass or worse yet having blood all over it. I still wonder if he was hit and knocked unconscious and DC also, Jayme grabbed and then the two were shot on the perps way out to be sure they were dead and couldn't ID them.

Def possible, it was never substantiated that the wooden door was shot in, only kicked in by the 911 call log.

 

[Jax49]

I thought that he could be to the right of the cabinet towards the kitchen. That may explain why kitchen chair ( If it was a kitchen chair) has damage to it

Not sure if it means anything, but that looks like a dining room hutch. moo

 

[ilovechili]

BBM
I have thought to myself that it is possible that the perp may have parked at a different loc. That was debunked because the dog lost the scent or something like that. You have to think that the perp is very aware of cell phones and knows everybody has them. In the perps mind you would have to think that he/she/they must know there is a great possibility that someone can call 911.

This can only give more credit to the sheriff that this was a bang bang get in and out deal. However, imo, I would still think that before hand, the perp would have thought, what if everything doesn't go as planned? If you park by the Closs house and 911 is called, you possibly cannot got out because the police can block the driveway.

These are interesting thoughts and I have wondered the same. There are many cases where the perp was a neighbor or lived nearby.

I am not so sure LE would tell us if and exactly where the scent was lost (meaning the truth about it) because they also have to not tell the perp what they wish to not tell him if he is listening to interviews, etc. I would think if a dog tracked her to a home, that would be enough for a warrant but as you say, perhaps if they parked nearby or would an ATV or even motorcycle or dirt bike ride at some point cause the scent to be lost? And as many have said, with Elizabeth Smart, she could hear dogs while captive but the dogs never hit exactly on her so who knows... The only dogs (other than the tech dogs) I heard of or saw were called were from Sawyer County Search & Rescue and they were called at around 9:00 a.m. There is an entry far earlier to an officer to have a search team ready (but that could be people?). I think Hayward/Sawyer County is a good hour plus away so that dog/people team would not be there until probably close to 11 and that is if it was dispatched pretty quickly. No idea what kind of search dogs they use, how many there are or the success rate.

 

[sbsuzilight]

Found Deceased - NC - Hania Noelia Aguilar, 13, abducted and murdered, Lumberton, 5 Nov 2018 #4 *Arrest*

Thank you.

 

[ShaylaVale]

S

I thought that he could be to the right of the cabinet towards the kitchen. That may explain why kitchen chair ( If it was a kitchen chair) has damage to it

Ince we don't know the exact layout James could have been on either side. He could have even been right in the front and the gun was angled in either direction... The blood splatter should follow the trajectory of the bullet... This is only speculation trying to explain why there appears to be minimal damage to the cabinet. I have to see how far I can blow up the pictures to see if I can find signs of blood splatter, but the pictures are so dark. I doubt if I can see much...