Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

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I've just created this account to comment on here. I think the last time I really read this forum was the Chris Brahney case in Manchester about five years ago. Like that case, this one's left me with that removed, disconnected feeling where I find myself staring out the window a little more every day. I don't think there's any shame in some tragedies resonating more. You can say others are forgotten – and that's true, and that's a sad but human reality – but this has hit me.

I'm a man from Australia of similar age. I've travelled to the UK, to Europe, to the US and save for a month here and there where I've rendezvoused with mates, I've done it solo. Girls I know, girls my age do that same thing too: girlfriends, sisters, friends. It's a normal thing and a rite of passage.

I've felt the soaring 'whoooooaaah' while your plane flies onto a brand new continent and you see the trees and streets and can't wait to get down onto the ground and see it all for yourself. She too had that. And the breakdowns of a missed train, the anger of some annoying, dirty in the dorm. Showers not working. But then making memories with transient, two-night-long friends. I've used tinder to try and go out and meet girls. You know, that's travelling.

Even those people in her dorm, apparently two other girls and a guy. It's pretty easy to just come and go and not realise if a person has been home or not – you can easily miss a dorm mate even on longer stays – but imagine being told. I'm sure you'd relay those innocuous 'so, where ya from? How long have you been travelling?' conversations for a long time. I couldn't imagine how sick, sad, and introspective that would get you... seeing her passport, her backpack... that would hit me.

Sorry for that. Very self-indulgent. But it hits me and I can't imagine the fear she probably felt when the reality of the situation set in but I really hope she didn't have to confront that.

Anyway, I don't know if I'll log back in here so I'll make all my points and make them as brief and simple as possible. I hate the amount of disinformation masquerading as fact on forums like this, completely does my head in, so I'm trying to work things out. Cheers. So:

– People have mentioned Grace's Tinder account was still visible. How did people find this out? How many days of inactivity does it take for your account to disappear?

– Were Tinder, facebook, instagram possibly used in tracking down the accused? All three are either owned or use facebook log-in information. I wonder if they could get into her account and get a timeline or if they already have? The reason I ask is that police alerted the girl who was due to meet up with the accused and let her know what'd happened. The only way you could do that is by having access to Tinder accounts.

– Why are people now saying he wasn't staying at CityLife permanently? I thought it was confirmed his grandmother had given him money to live in one of the apartments in the complex? Why are people now saying he'd just booked a room for the weekend?

– Will we find out when they met, how they met, and what they did on the night? Seems she left the hostel about 7pm and they went to his at 9:41pm. Seeing as all maps indicate all (known) points of interest were within a block or two, that'd mean they were (drinking) together for probably an hour and a half, two hours-ish. It's interesting but unsurprising that he's been able to charm women, but together with her pink band (I lean toward this being a 'free drink' or pub crawl access thing given to her by the hostel, as opposed to a club... who goes clubbing before 9? And clubs in the antipodes use stamps), I wonder if they were going back there to grab a drink or something?

– I personally do not think this was premeditated. To me, he's one of those tough exterior, very easily broken interior young men: they're gentle with women but as soon as they get the flick of rejection, they turn angry. These guys feel entitled to women and think being nice, or two hours of drink buying, entitles them to sex.

– Why has this automatically been pegged as murder? Isn't that risky in terms of a trial? For it to be murder, wouldn't they have to have proof he lured her into his room with the explicit intent of murdering her? That seems insanely, insanely cold. The bloke seemed weird and off-kilter but that sort of planning is something else. Why are they so confident it went this way, as opposed to something that'd result in manslaughter?
 
– Why has this automatically been pegged as murder? Isn't that risky in terms of a trial? For it to be murder, wouldn't they have to have proof he lured her into his room with the explicit intent of murdering her? That seems insanely, insanely cold. The bloke seemed weird and off-kilter but that sort of planning is something else. Why are they so confident it went this way, as opposed to something that'd result in manslaughter?

Murder doesn't have to be planned way before killing someone. You can decide in a second to murder someone. If say she rejected his advances and he got angry and decided to kill her then that is murder.
 
– Why has this automatically been pegged as murder? Isn't that risky in terms of a trial? For it to be murder, wouldn't they have to have proof he lured her into his room with the explicit intent of murdering her? That seems insanely, insanely cold. The bloke seemed weird and off-kilter but that sort of planning is something else. Why are they so confident it went this way, as opposed to something that'd result in manslaughter?

RSBM ...

@All & Forward please don't make this your first and last post - your comments were very interesting.

Re. your last paragraph, that's baffling me too ... I wonder if it could have been an accidental death someway, somehow ... but if that was the case I'm sure the police would have cleared that off upfront. There's obviously a lot more to it, that we're not privy to at this stage.
 
In regard to the speculation of Grace's body being removed from the Apartment in a suitcase or bag - yes, it is possible (as the Heather Mack, Body in a suitcase murder) but, the body still releases fluid, and suitcases cannot contain that amount (under restricted pressure of the closed bag). So unless the body had a waterproof covering, or the suitcase bag had a waterproof covering, I think there would have been a problem.

I wonder how much cleaning was necessary to the car he was using to dispose of Graces body - it was hired out after it was dropped off.
Hire car companies clean and refresh cars - and inspect them for damage and cleanliness at the time of drop-off before they release the deposit, or add further charges to the rental bill.
I wonder what condition the car was in?
Surely if there had been blood, an alarm would have been raised?
But if he had used the time between 6.30am and 9.30am to clean the car, the rental company might be none the wiser.
 
Interesting as I am finding that I can't access any of the DM articles now. I know they were taken down a few hours after the court hearing but then reinstated. May possibly be something done so us kiwis can't access? Any one else in NZ finding this?
 
But if he had used the time between 6.30am and 9.30am to clean the car, the rental company might be none the wiser.

I hadn't associated any activity in that three-hour time period that the police mentioned other than it was the time he disposed of the body but perhaps he was doing something else with the car as you suggest.

Initially the police said they wanted to hear from anyone who may have seen the car from 6.30am to 9.30am on Monday 3 December in the west Auckland area. I'm not from there but is that on the way to where the body was found? CityLife, where I'm sure he was living, is in central Auckland. No idea of distances and whether them stating west Auckland actually means anything.

My timeline, but I could be way off, is Grace was dead before lunch time on Sunday when the car was hired and her body not removed from the hotel until early Monday morning. I feel he waited until then as any rural dumping sites would be full of hikers or people generally out and about etc on a Sunday. To do the deed early on a working day makes more sense. It seems the police have accounted for the vehicle from 9.30am to just before lunch time on Monday when he returned it to the hire company because it's just that three-hour time period they're interested in.
 
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Interesting as I am finding that I can't access any of the DM articles now. I know they were taken down a few hours after the court hearing but then reinstated. May possibly be something done so us kiwis can't access? Any one else in NZ finding this?
Geoblocking? Possible. Can you use a VPN to evade it?
 
Re the police quickly coming to the conclusion that Grace was dead, I wonder if she actually recorded the attack, or some of it, on her phone and they found that in the apartment. Of the missing items they were trying to locate there was no mention of her phone (that I can recall) so my suspicion is that they have it.
 
Re the police quickly coming to the conclusion that Grace was dead, I wonder if she actually recorded the attack, or some of it, on her phone and they found that in the apartment. Of the missing items they were trying to locate there was no mention of her phone (that I can recall) so my suspicion is that they have it.
I thought she had left her phone at the hostel.
 
Her dad is a measured, well spoken guy. Respectable poise in a pretty overwhelmingly tragic time.

Not sure about these vigil things. I've followed this closely and have been low the last few days but I feel this is a private, mourning sort of matter. I hope this isn't hijacked for politics. This has nothing to do with anything other than extreme bad luck.

I guess the message is, if you're a girl and you want to meet up with a guy on tinder, tell your mates. If you're overseas, let someone at the hostel know – it might seem embarrassing to say 'hey, I'm going to meet someone off tinder' but it's worth it. Ideally, tell your date you want to bring someone. Come on, sounds like a good way to find a good local bar and to have a fun night – for everyone. If the tinder date kicks up a fuss, then it's probably not worthwhile anyway.
 
Interesting as I am finding that I can't access any of the DM articles now. I know they were taken down a few hours after the court hearing but then reinstated. May possibly be something done so us kiwis can't access? Any one else in NZ finding this?

They've blocked it for Kiwi VPNs ... I wasn't able to access any of the articles from my (NZ) location either, but then when I tried via Hotspot Shield VPN I could. If you're a Chrome user, you can add Hotspot Shield VPN as a free extension.

I see Trade Me have come down hard on members publishing the suspect's name on their messageboards ... lifetime bans are being handed down to those flouting name suppression. Reddit are usually just as strict, which is a good thing.
 
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I just heard on the (NZ TV) news that the Wellington cable car is going to be lit up with white lights in honour of Grace this evening.

I was at the supermarket earlier, stuck in a long queue waiting to be served, and people were even talking about it there ... to say that Grace and her family are so many peoples' thoughts here is somewhat of an understatement.

I couldn't help but think today - when I read an article that is banned here, which showed new (to me) pictures of the accused - that he looked like a nicely presented young man. I said in response to someone's post yesterday that I thought he had a creepy smile, but in these pictures I didn't see that. You just can never tell about people on appearance - I imagine he probably got a few swipes on Tinder which is eerie to consider. I also learned something new - apparently he told one of the flatmates (those that gave him the boot) that he was looking at buying a restaurant, but she knew he was lying as the restaurant belonged to her family and it was not for sale.

In that same article I saw new (to me) pictures of Grace, pictured with her family - it's just such a terrible, terrible tragedy that this has happened to such good people.
 
Her dad is a measured, well spoken guy. Respectable poise in a pretty overwhelmingly tragic time.

Not sure about these vigil things. I've followed this closely and have been low the last few days but I feel this is a private, mourning sort of matter. I hope this isn't hijacked for politics. This has nothing to do with anything other than extreme bad luck.

I guess the message is, if you're a girl and you want to meet up with a guy on tinder, tell your mates. If you're overseas, let someone at the hostel know – it might seem embarrassing to say 'hey, I'm going to meet someone off tinder' but it's worth it. Ideally, tell your date you want to bring someone. Come on, sounds like a good way to find a good local bar and to have a fun night – for everyone. If the tinder date kicks up a fuss, then it's probably not worthwhile anyway.

RBBM ...

That is great advice.

Yes, her dad seems like a lovely man. Grace was very fortunate to have such a wonderful, loving family.
 
They've blocked it for Kiwi VPNs ... I wasn't able to access any of the articles from my (NZ) location either, but then when I tried via Hotspot Shield VPN I could. If you're a Chrome user, you can add Hotspot Shield VPN as a free extension.

I see Trade Me have come down hard on members publishing the suspect's name on their messageboards ... lifetime bans are being handed down to those flaunting name suppression. Reddit are usually just as strict, which is a good thing.

Protecting the integrity of the investigation to ensure a fair trial and justice, I think this is a good thing. Nothing, no amount of curiosity or sales goals should compromise these human rights.

When Paul Bernardo was arrested in Canada, the USA published every juicy details they could find. Canadians could not access the information unless they crossed the border. This is not the first time that a country blatantly violates publication law, but it is shocking that the UK learned nothing from Christopher Jefferies.
 
I just heard on the (NZ TV) news that the Wellington cable car is going to be lit up with white lights in honour of Grace this evening.

I was at the supermarket earlier, stuck in a long queue waiting to be served, and people were even talking about it there ... to say that Grace and her family are so many peoples' thoughts here is somewhat of an understatement.

I couldn't help but think today - when I read an article that is banned here, which showed new (to me) pictures of the accused - that he looked like a nicely presented young man. I said in response to someone's post yesterday that I thought he had a creepy smile, but in these pictures I didn't see that. You just can never tell about people on appearance - I imagine he probably got a few swipes on Tinder which is eerie to consider. I also learned something new - apparently he told one of the flatmates (those that gave him the boot) that he was looking at buying a restaurant, but she knew he was lying as the restaurant belonged to her family and it was not for sale.

In that same article I saw new (to me) pictures of Grace, pictured with her family - it's just such a terrible, terrible tragedy that this has happened to such good people.

It's good to hear that the NZ community is participating in numerous cultural and social events to move past the murder of Grace.

It was published that the suspect moved in with 3 girls and told them that he was in the area to purchase a restaurant. The restaurant he mentioned is owned by the family of one of the other roommates. He was asked to move out, and was gone the next day.

I'm wondering about the money that his grandparents gave him. On the one hand we read that he was going to buy a restaurant, and on the other hand we read that his grandparents gave him money so he could live in a hotel. If I had to guess, I would believe that his grandparents gave him money to buy a restaurant rather than pretend to be a suit wearing rich man who lived in a hotel.
 
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