Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[otto]

Someone mentioned the family photo that is posted by the DM. These images are from the DM, but the link is excluded due to violations of the NZ court ruling.

 

[Pepper77]

I'm wondering about the money that his grandparents gave him. On the one hand we read that he was going to buy a restaurant, and on the other hand we read that his grandparents gave him money so he could live in a hotel. If I had to guess, I would believe that his grandparents gave him money to buy a restaurant rather than pretend to be a suit wearing rich man who lived in a hotel.

RSBM ... The money was mentioned as "a few hundred"* by his grandfather in NZ media earlier in the week (which he added had yet to be paid back) ... "a few hundred" would not go far ... at best, it would pay for two nights at the City Life (rates start at around NZ$205 per night). I've also seen it mentioned elsewhere that the money his grandparents gave him was spent on suits and watches (which would likely go into the thousands - you wouldn't get a lot for "a few hundred". So he obviously had other income sources.

From Grace Millane murder accused was estranged from family, grandfather says:
"His grandfather had loaned him a couple of hundred dollars in mid 2016, which he didn't pay back. The family hadn't heard much from him since."

*Note: I'm not sure where I got "a few hundred" from as it clearly states "a couple of hundred" in the link above ... but the mention of the lavish spending on watches and suits was from The Heavy article. A couple of hundred dollars would probably only stretch to a week's worth of groceries and a stay at a backpacker's - not much else.

 

[otto]

I do wonder if his online dating extended beyond facebook, and whether he learned that Grace came from a family that could afford a room in the hotel even though she also had a bed at the nearby hostel.

What did he want with her, and why did he violently murder her on the night that she was celebrating her birthday? Did she represent everything that he could never be?

"Scum--bag" doesn't even begin to describe the New Zealander who was so vacant that he planned the murder of a tourist on her birthday because he so desperately wanted what she had but has no chance in several lifetimes of ever achieving.

 

[All & Forward]

The chance of his grandparents giving him money to buy a restaurant is exceptionally small. Who enlists their grandson, who's estranged, money to invest in a property?

If you'd read the article – and this is my main issue with these sorts of forums, people don't read the articles or all information and instead latch onto tidbits of information – the woman said he clearly used almost white lies. The story goes:

Accused sees an ad for a room in Auckland. He's in Sydney at the time. Gives these three young students a call and they find him pretty normal, a decent addition to their little student digs. His story is that he's moving over to buy a restaurant as his family are big in the property game. He moves in and it becomes obvious something is up: he doesn't work and won't answer questions about his income stream, and he drinks heavily. Not only does he drink heaps, but he starts becoming abrasive, puffs out his chest, and talks completely differently after drinking.

One girl asks what restaurant he's purchasing and he tells her a name. But that restaurant is owned by the girl's family, and she absolutely knows they aren't selling it. She confronts him, tells him all the girls are uncomfortable, and he has to leave. A day or so later, they all go to work and when they all return, everything of his is gone. A few days later they realise he's been back. They get the locks changed.

A while after, said girl is down at her family's restaurant and sees the accused. He's working as a bar man at the restaurant. She sees him and feels sick, he sees her and literally up and leaves his shift. Her quote is 'no one saw him after that' which could mean none of the housemates saw him but I guess it means her family didn't either (so he walked out and quit).

I've known blokes like this. They're hard to actually describe. All I can say is they have just about the right amount of affability and decent, clean looks but they usually obsess over status and women. They generally have very few friends and especially struggle to relate to other men. They love things like dating, apps, and going out because it allows them to be their own person – aka create their own story and world – and present that to girls. The reason these sort of blokes can actually go okay with women is because they stay sober in nighties or they're so good at lying they believe their own lies and can put it across.

Not be weird, but Grace could look very attractive. I wonder why, on a Saturday night, she went for him? We'll never know. People have their sorts. But he isn't anything other than average looking to me and the way he dresses, does his hair, and presents himself is very... banal? Boring? Dull? There'd be better looking, more interesting lads swiping on a Saturday arvo and night in a CBD of what, a mil and a half? I would love to know how much he was fronting on tinder and if he was telling some bold fibs which made her both appealed and feeling sale.

 

[otto]

As for the grandparents, they foolishly gave him money and he spent it on suits and trying to look rich. Too bad they didn't monitor the situation a little more closely.

 

[All & Forward]

I do wonder if his online dating extended beyond facebook, and whether he learned that Grace came from a family that could afford a room in the hotel even though she also had a bed at the nearby hostel.

What did he want with her, and why did he violently murder her on the night that she was celebrating her birthday? Did she represent everything that he could never be?

"*******" doesn't even begin to describe the New Zealander who was so vacant that he planned the murder of a tourist on her birthday because he so desperately wanted what she had but has no chance in several lifetimes of ever achieving it.

I wouldn't go trying to be play shrink here and say she represented his deepest wants.

Also – do we know she had a room at the hotel? This seems like more disinformation and muddling of facts. It seems as though he lived at the hotel and she had a room at a hostel.

I know she had money, but who books a hotel and hostel for the same night? It's weird. She probably went the hostel route because she wanted the safety and sociality of it. Otherwise how else do you meet people? It was her first solo trip. I'm sure she wanted girls to visit landmarks with, people to organise boat trips and walking tours with, and people to go out and act like a pillock at hostels with.

I think a typo has caused confusion. She almost definitely only booked the hostel. He lived at the hotel.

 

[Pepper77]

Yes, @All & Forward Grace was attractive; but he was too ... he looked like a clean-cut, shaven, well presented guy to me. Like attracts like.

 

[otto]

The chance of his grandparents giving him money to buy a restaurant is exceptionally small. Who enlists their grandson, who's estranged, money to invest in a property?
<snip>

Who gives anyone money without some sense of accounting? Apparently the grandparents gave money to the suspect and he used the money to pretend to be a rich man playing dress-up in suits and other accessories while living in an expensive hotel. <modsnipped- unnecessary comment>

 

[Pepper77]

Who gives anyone money without some sense of accounting? Apparently the grandparents gave money to the suspect and he used the money to pretend to be a rich man playing dress-up in suits and other accessories while living in an expensive hotel. Is that why the grandparents gave the money to him? Is that the culture in NZ - families assist younger generations to deceive tourists and other vulnerable populations?

No that is NOT the culture in New Zealand, Otto! Come on now ... surely from all the reports of vigils being held for Grace around our country, that has suggested that we are, for the most part, very caring people who are absolutely outraged this has happened?

 

[Pepper77]

As for the grandparents, they foolishly gave him money and he spent it on suits and trying to look rich. Too bad they didn't monitor the situation a little more closely.

They only gave him a couple of hundred dollars - in 2016, as per the article I posted above - that would not get him very far (certainly not enough to 'look rich').

 

[otto]

The chance of his grandparents giving him money to buy a restaurant is exceptionally small. Who enlists their grandson, who's estranged, money to invest in a property?

If you'd read the article – and this is my main issue with these sorts of forums, people don't read the articles or all information and instead latch onto tidbits of information – the woman said he clearly used almost white lies. The story goes:

Accused sees an ad for a room in Auckland. He's in Sydney at the time. Gives these three young students a call and they find him pretty normal, a decent addition to their little student digs. His story is that he's moving over to buy a restaurant as his family are big in the property game. He moves in and it becomes obvious something is up: he doesn't work and won't answer questions about his income stream, and he drinks heavily. Not only does he drink heaps, but he starts becoming abrasive, puffs out his chest, and talks completely differently after drinking.

One girl asks what restaurant he's purchasing and he tells her a name. But that restaurant is owned by the girl's family, and she absolutely knows they aren't selling it. She confronts him, tells him all the girls are uncomfortable, and he has to leave. A day or so later, they all go to work and when they all return, everything of his is gone. A few days later they realise he's been back. They get the locks changed.

A while after, said girl is down at her family's restaurant and sees the accused. He's working as a bar man at the restaurant. She sees him and feels sick, he sees her and literally up and leaves his shift. Her quote is 'no one saw him after that' which could mean none of the housemates saw him but I guess it means her family didn't either (so he walked out and quit).

I've known blokes like this. They're hard to actually describe. All I can say is they have just about the right amount of affability and decent, clean looks but they usually obsess over status and women. They generally have very few friends and especially struggle to relate to other men. They love things like dating, apps, and going out because it allows them to be their own person – aka create their own story and world – and present that to girls. The reason these sort of blokes can actually go okay with women is because they stay sober in nighties or they're so good at lying they believe their own lies and can put it across.

Not be weird, but Grace could look very attractive. I wonder why, on a Saturday night, she went for him? We'll never know. People have their sorts. But he isn't anything other than average looking to me and the way he dresses, does his hair, and presents himself is very... banal? Boring? Dull? There'd be better looking, more interesting lads swiping on a Saturday arvo and night in a CBD of what, a mil and a half? I would love to know how much he was fronting on tinder and if he was telling some bold fibs which made her both appealed and feeling sale.

Why did she go for him? He looks a bit like her brother except from the sunglasses covering his eyes. She made a mistake, similar to the three girls who invited him to be a roommate.

I think we can be sure that he is an intelligent sociopath who tells women what they hear, he tries to become exactly the man that they think they want.

Regardless of "main concerns about forums," nothing has yet been misrepresented regarding this particular article. Less information was provided, but that is within the scope given the legal ruling in NZ.

 

[otto]

They only gave him a couple of hundred dollars - in 2016, as per the article I posted above - that would not get him very far (certainly not enough to 'look rich').

How much money was that exactly?

Apparently it was enough money to carry him for two years posing in suits and preying on backpackers, especially Brits.

 

[otto]

No that is NOT the culture in New Zealand, Otto! Come on now ... surely from all the reports of vigils being held for Grace around our country, that has suggested that we are, for the most part, very caring people who are absolutely outraged this has happened?

I did read about the Maori traditional practices that made Grace's father smile again and claim that she is forever a New Zealander. Did that include a smudging ceremony?

 

[otto]

I wouldn't go trying to be play shrink here and say she represented his deepest wants.

Also – do we know she had a room at the hotel? This seems like more disinformation and muddling of facts. It seems as though he lived at the hotel and she had a room at a hostel.

I know she had money, but who books a hotel and hostel for the same night? It's weird. She probably went the hostel route because she wanted the safety and sociality of it. Otherwise how else do you meet people? It was her first solo trip. I'm sure she wanted girls to visit landmarks with, people to organise boat trips and walking tours with, and people to go out and act like a pillock at hostels with.

I think a typo has caused confusion. She almost definitely only booked the hostel. He lived at the hotel.

Muddling of facts or not, one of the disappeared articles stated that she had a room at the hostel and another room at a hotel.

Did he live at the hotel? How could he afford that? Was he using the "couple of hundred dollars from his grandparents" in 2016 to pay for that hotel room?

 

[Pepper77]

I did read about the Maori traditional practices that made Grace's father smile again and claim that she is forever a New Zealander. Did that include a smudging ceremony?

A smudging ceremony? At this point I think you're trying to be humourous but it's just coming across as being culturally insensitive. The Maori people do not smudge - that is something people of the Wiccan culture do (and of course people who are not Wiccan, but who believe in the power of smudging to get rid of stagnant energy).

 

[otto]

A smudging ceremony? At this point I think you're trying to be humourous but it's just coming across as being culturally insensitive. The Maori people do not smudge - that is something people of the Wiccan culture do (and of course people who are not Wiccan, but who believe in the power of smudging to get rid of stagnant energy).

Thank you! I didn't know that. The indigenous population in Canada is heavily entrenched with the smudging ceremony, something that has been forced on Canadians regardless of religious beliefs as part of the modernization of Canada.

They dance and have other practices like rubbing noses?

I had no idea that smudging is in the wiccan superstition category.

 

[Pepper77]

Thank you! I didn't know that. The indigenous population in Canada is heavily entrenched with the smudging ceremony, something that has been forced on Canadians regardless of religious beliefs as part of the modernization of Canada.

They dance and have other practices like rubbing noses?

I had no idea that smudging is in the wiccan superstition category.

My apologies - I thought you were having a laugh when clearly that wasn't your intention.

Yes, the Maori people do press noses - which one Maori police officer was pictured doing with Mr Millane - that is called a hongi and it is a greeting. A Maori blessing was performed at the site where she was found a couple of days ago, which Mr Millane and his brother attended.

 

[otto]

My apologies - I thought you were having a laugh when clearly that wasn't your intention.

Yes, the Maori people do press noses - which one Maori police officer was pictured doing with Mr Millane - that is called a hongi and it is a greeting. A Maori blessing was performed at the site where she was found a couple of days ago, which Mr Millane attended.

You could see in her father's face that he felt uplifted with the Maori ceremony. Up until that day he looked terrified.

 

[Pepper77]

Statement from Grace's father from Grace Millane's family: 'Our whole world turned upside down':

"Grace went off to travel the world in mid-October and arrived in New Zealand on the 20th November.

By the amount of pictures and messages we received she clearly loved this country, its people and the lifestyle.

After the disappearance of Grace on 1st December 2018 our whole world turned upside down.

I arrived in Auckland on Friday 7th December, followed by my brother Martin on Saturday 8th. From that very first moment we have been astounded by the level of concern, sympathy and selfless help from every person we have met.

Auckland Police have carried out the most concise, stringent and thorough investigation. The team, consisting at times of over 24 officers have worked arduous long hours without a day off, little sleep or rest in helping to resolve this heinous crime.

The media and press have been superb in their coverage and reporting of the events surrounding Grace's tragic final days. They have not intruded into our life and have been respectful and courteous at all times.

Gill, Michael, Declan and myself would sincerely like to thank everybody involved and express our most profound gratitude.

In this difficult situation where everybody is a true hero it is sometimes difficult to single out certain people. Despite this we would like to offer our most sincere thanks and everlasting gratitude to;

Detective Inspector Scott Beard, who has been a most measured, selfless, human and professional face of Auckland Police. His emotional media statements have made him many fans both in New Zealand and at home in the UK.

Detective Senior Sergeant Greg Brand, the hidden driving force of the investigation and a true police professional.

We all hope that what has happened to Grace will not deter even one person from venturing out into the world and discovering their own OE.

Martin and I had the privilege of attending the traditional Maori blessing of the site which was a lovely and peaceful experience.

Finally we would like to thank the people of New Zealand for their outpouring of love, numerous messages, tributes and compassion.

Grace was not born here and only managed to stay a few weeks, but you have taken her to your hearts and in some small way she will forever be a Kiwi.

My brother Martin and I leave for the UK this weekend to take her home."

 

[mrjitty]

I realise reporting is still confused so maybe it would be helpful to posters if we summarise the published info?

The victim was staying at Base in central AKL - make sense for a backpacker. This is located on Queen Street

The murder took place at a room at City Life - also on Queen Street.

When charged, according to reporting in the Telegraph, the accused address was given as City Life Hotel. This may be simply because he was booked in there. I think we can rule our the victim booking a room there and be certain the accused had a room there.

I also saw reported in the Daily Mail, that he lived elsewhere on Queen Street, but I now wonder if this was a mixup based on the street address.

So overall, I would say it is currently completely unclear where he had been living since his flatmates kicked him out of his AKL flat.

I have also been wondering, given the efforts at name suppression, whether the grandparents are a wealthy/known family. It's interesting in the reporting, even in the UK, they have not been named, which makes me suspect their media work is professionally handled.