Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[mrjitty]

– Why has this automatically been pegged as murder? Isn't that risky in terms of a trial?

It isn't automatic. The police base charges on the forensic and circumstantial evidence.

For it to be murder, wouldn't they have to have proof he lured her into his room with the explicit intent of murdering her?

No.

That seems insanely, insanely cold. The bloke seemed weird and off-kilter but that sort of planning is something else. Why are they so confident it went this way, as opposed to something that'd result in manslaughter?

The circumstances in which a healthy 22 year old female dies by accident in your hotel room on a Saturday night are pretty limited.

Drug overdose?

Any form of substantial physical attack on the victim will fall within the definition of murder.

 

[mrjitty]

They only gave him a couple of hundred dollars - in 2016, as per the article I posted above - that would not get him very far (certainly not enough to 'look rich').

I guess we have to wait for name suppression to end before we are going to see proper reporting on who this guy is.

At the moment a couple of family members say they had not been in contact with him and one thought he had been back in Oz.

Where has he been since he got kicked out of his flat? Who has been around him in recent months?

Some of these people may well be key witnesses.

 

[otto]

Maybe she thought that she was just going to smoke a quick joint and would be back at the casino in time for the pink bracelet draw for 5000 euros.

 

[otto]

I guess we have to wait for name suppression to end before we are going to see proper reporting on who this guy is.

At the moment a couple of family members say they had not been in contact with him and one thought he had been back in Oz.

Where has he been since he got kicked out of his flat? Who has been around him in recent months?

Some of these people may well be key witnesses.

I think proper reporting is intact. He's a soccer player with military and police in 2010. Since then he has been out of contact with his community and family. The family says the reason that he is out of contact is because his parents divorced as a child.

Are any family members still "back in Oz?"

 

[otto]

It isn't automatic. The police base charges on the forensic and circumstantial evidence.

No.

The circumstances in which a healthy 22 year old female dies by accident in your hotel room on a Saturday night are pretty limited.

Drug overdose?

Any form of substantial physical attack on the victim will fall within the definition of murder.

It was deemed a homicide after she was traced to the suspect's room and before a car was identified or a body was found. That pretty much means that there was evidence in the hotel room that she was deceased. Since there was no body, this suggests blood evidence and multiple stab wounds.

Drug overdose is farfetched. She bought the pink bracelet for a draw at the casino and there's nothing to suggest that she chose to miss that so she could instead be murdered by a stranger on her birthday in an ugly hotel room.

Yes, it looks like premeditated murder. The question of whether there are other victims is very serious. Where has he been, who else is missing.

 

[mrjitty]

I want NZ and Australia to pay attention and to attend to their population (violent offenders of women with whom they have sex) such as married men and others who prey on tourists. Yes, many tourists are seduced by the beauty of the county. Perhaps they should not forget the origins of criminal exodus from England.

Perhaps it would help to familiarise yourself with the history of european colonization of NZ before making such insinuations?

 

[Jennifer17]

I want NZ and Australia to pay attention and to attend to their population (violent offenders of women with whom they have sex) such as married men and others who prey on tourists. Yes, many tourists are seduced by the beauty of the county. Perhaps they should not forget the origins of criminal exodus from England.

New Zealand was not a penal colony.

 

[Jennifer17]

I want NZ and Australia to pay attention and to attend to their population (violent offenders of women with whom they have sex) such as married men and others who prey on tourists. Yes, many tourists are seduced by the beauty of the county. Perhaps they should not forget the origins of criminal exodus from England.

There is no violence toward women in your country?

 

[mrjitty]

It was deemed a homicide after she was traced to the suspect's room and before a car was identified or a body was found. That pretty much means that there was evidence in the hotel room that she was deceased. Since there was no body, this suggests blood evidence and multiple stab wounds.

Drug overdose is farfetched. She bought the pink bracelet for a draw at the casino and there's nothing to suggest that she chose to miss that so she could instead be murdered by a stranger on her birthday in an ugly hotel room.

Yes, it looks like premeditated murder. The question of whether there are other victims is very serious. Where has he been, who else is missing.

I agree it's farfetched.

I was simply pointing out why manslaughter would be an unusual charge in the circumstances, unless the accused had already claimed some extenuating facts.

Manslaughter is essentially a homicide which arises from an unlawful act, but without one of the murderous intents I have already twice posted.

Like say he shoved her angrily, she fell and cracked her skull on the edge of a table.

But the prosecution need not worry about such possibilities at this point - the onus will be on the defence to raise any such mitigation at trial.

The prosecution will charge up to Murder (the obvious inference in the situation).

They can always argue Manslaughter in the alternate under NZ law, if the need should arise.

 

[mrjitty]

New Zealand was not a penal colony.

I actually found that quite funny, because its still a friendly ribbing point in Oz-NZ rivalry

In reality many from my part of NZ still trace their ancestry back to the "first 4 ships" which was a sign of superior breeding

Part of my family were poor miners from scotland

 

[otto]

I realise reporting is still confused so maybe it would be helpful to posters if we summarise the published info?

The victim was staying at Base in central AKL - make sense for a backpacker. This is located on Queen Street

The murder took place at a room at City Life - also on Queen Street.

When charged, according to reporting in the Telegraph, the accused address was given as City Life Hotel. This may be simply because he was booked in there. I think we can rule our the victim booking a room there and be certain the accused had a room there.

I also saw reported in the Daily Mail, that he lived elsewhere on Queen Street, but I now wonder if this was a mixup based on the street address.

So overall, I would say it is currently completely unclear where he had been living since his flatmates kicked him out of his AKL flat.

I have also been wondering, given the efforts at name suppression, whether the grandparents are a wealthy/known family. It's interesting in the reporting, even in the UK, they have not been named, which makes me suspect their media work is professionally handled.

Did she rent a hotel room in addition to the hostel bed? Did he book the room? Who paid for the room that night?

Yes, it is unclear where he has been living between 2016 when his grandparents gave him money to go away and today. We know that in the interim he freaked-out three women with deceit and predatory behaviour.

Perhaps the suspect was living at the hotel at the expense of his grandparents, or perhaps Grace paid for the room?

 

[ocsalumni]

I want NZ and Australia to pay attention and to attend to their population (violent offenders of women with whom they have sex) such as married men and others who prey on tourists. Yes, many tourists are seduced by the beauty of the county. Perhaps they should not forget the origins of criminal exodus from England.

I can't tell if you're just trolling at this point. This is so off-topic and inappropriate. (..and ignorant, at that)

 

[Jennifer17]

I actually found that quite funny, because its still a friendly ribbing point in Oz-NZ rivalry

In reality many from my part of NZ still trace their ancestry back to the "first 4 ships" which was a sign of superior breeding

Part of my family were poor miners from scotland

I am Australian and may even have some ancestors that were transported, but most of my ancestors were Welsh coal miners.

 

[kiwijayne]

They've blocked it for Kiwi VPNs ... I wasn't able to access any of the articles from my (NZ) location either, but then when I tried via Hotspot Shield VPN I could. If you're a Chrome user, you can add Hotspot Shield VPN as a free extension.

I see Trade Me have come down hard on members publishing the suspect's name on their messageboards ... lifetime bans are being handed down to those flouting name suppression. Reddit are usually just as strict, which is a good thing.

I’m on Trademe and saw that too. In fact I got a member banned with her vile posts about victim blaming.

 

[mrjitty]

It would be helpful if incorrect information was not posted in the thread

The accused was only charged with murder AFTER the body was discovered. This is typical for murder cases. At this point the police had the picture at the hotel, forensics from the room, and the hire car directly linking him to the disposal of the corpse. This is easily sufficient to persuade a District Court Judge to remand the accused into custody awaiting trial for murder. We don't know what the room forensics were, but I would say the police didn't actually need 100% evidence how she died in the room at that stage. Finding the body gives them cause of death.

A 26-year-old man has appeared in court in New Zealand charged with the murder of British backpacker Grace Millane.

Miss Millane, 22, disappeared in Auckland on 1 December - police ended their search on Sunday after finding a body in the outskirts of the city.

The man, who cannot be named, is due back in court next month.

Court documents showed he had been living at the Citylife Hotel on Queen Street in central Auckland, which is where Miss Millane was last seen.

Backpacker murder accused in court

 

[mrjitty]

I am Australian and may even have some ancestors that were transported, but most of my ancestors were Welsh coal miners.

And they got to move to "the lucky country!"

 

[kiwijayne]

New Zealand was not a penal colony.

Yes it was criminals came here from England via Australia

New Zealand's dark secret: Many of us are descendants of Australian convicts

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes it was criminals came here from England.

What does that mean?

 

[kiwijayne]

I actually found that quite funny, because its still a friendly ribbing point in Oz-NZ rivalry

In reality many from my part of NZ still trace their ancestry back to the "first 4 ships" which was a sign of superior breeding

Part of my family were poor miners from scotland

Mine too.

 

[Jennifer17]

And they got to move to "the lucky country!"

I think there were plenty of Welsh immigrants too in NZ.