AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

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Found it - Go to page 21 of this thread (#28), theres a post by elektroangel with 3 photos. It shows the patio door. I hate to repost them because its not confirmed to be the same door that was taken. But thats why another door was mentioned. Hope that helps.

I did see those sliding glass doors photos, but I still think the glass door with the brown trim that LE was carrying out was the outer front door, not one of the side/deck doors. I think it looks like the front door from the "power wash company - before & after" picture. I could be wrong. IDK. But the trim didn't match the unpainted/weathered wood sliding glass/deck doors, IMO.
 
Someone may repost the pics- it was very intriguing. The sliding class doors didn’t exactly match the pumpkin clings on the door carried out by the technicians. Thinking it was a backdoor with similar pumpkin clings, but don’t know. That is important, IMO.
It was the front storm door.
44193205_10102617043326683_630766877139795968_n.jpg
 
I did see those sliding glass doors photos, but I still think the glass door with the brown trim that LE was carrying out was the outer front door, not one of the side/deck doors. I think it looks like the front door from the "power wash company - before & after" picture. I could be wrong. IDK. But the trim didn't match the unpainted/weathered wood sliding glass/deck doors, IMO.
Im sorry I must have misunderstood. I read backwards through posts when Im trying to catch up quick so I lose parts of conversations that way. I agree though.
 
I wish I knew more about ballistics/penetration. I've no doubt at close range some rounds can penetrate the door, but would they still have the velocity needed to kill a person on the other side after going through a 2 inch think wood door? I think of shotguns as being primarily useful aiming at the jam, strike plate, setscrews, handles, locking mechanism, hinges or other hardware components in order to facilitate the breach.

I have lots of target practice training on paper, cardboard, steel and even bowling pins, but door breach, 2 inch thick wood, etc. is above my paygrade ;)

Birdshot and buckshot are vastly different.. birdshot through door James likely wounded / moving... buckshot through door he’s done... chest or head...

Below is buckshot ... takes 4 doors to stop pellets... that’s pretty good indication James was not in good position..and perps intent.

 
Birdshot and buckshot are vastly different.. birdshot through door James likely wounded / moving... buckshot through door he’s done... chest or head...

Below is buckshot ... takes 4 doors to stop pellets... that’s pretty good indication James was not in good position..and perps intent.

And probably at close range to boot.
 
According to officer 325 at 1:05 am states multiple “rounds” spent. “Round” is a general term for any type of firearm projectile that is nonspecific, therefore pistol, rifle, or shotgun could have been used. PD uses the term bc it is nonspecific, however if they had used the term “brass” that narrows things down a bit. A bullet riddled door...I’m going with shotgun.
What Exactly Is A Round Of Ammunition? - Daily Shooting | Shooting Tips And Reviews
Happy reading!

Agree, and I made the same point many times early on too. But in other (subsequent) articles and interviews shared here, Fitzgerald used the term "shell casings", "bullet casings" and "casings". I'm less inclined to believe police would use the term "bullet casings" to describe shot-shells. If it was only attributed to the media's interpretation, who frequently get the firearm's nomenclature wrong, I would be skeptical. But direct quotes were cited, so while it's possible, it's more likely we can safely rule out shotgun.
 
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Agree, and I made the same point many times early on too. But in other (subsequent) articles and interviews shared here, Fitzgerald used the term "shell casings", "bullet casings. and "casings". I'm less inclined to believe police would use the term "bullet casings" to describe shot-shells. If it was only attributed to the media's interpretation, who frequently get the firearm's nomenclature wrong, I would be skeptical. But direct quotes were cited, so while it's possible, it's more likely we can safely rule out shotgun.
Scroll down to shells v shotshell
9 Most Misused Gun Terms - Guns and Ammo
 
Birdshot and buckshot are vastly different.. birdshot through door James likely wounded / moving... buckshot through door he’s done... chest or head...

Below is buckshot ... takes 4 doors to stop pellets... that’s pretty good indication James was not in good position..and perps intent.


Wow! That answers that question. There's not even a significant drop, and at a farther distance then I imagined at the Closs home. Thanks for sharing.
 
Agree, and I made the same point many times early on too. But in other (subsequent) articles and interviews shared here, Fitzgerald used the term "shell casings", "bullet casings. and "casings". I'm less inclined to believe police would use the term "bullet casings" to describe shot-shells. If it was only attributed to the media's interpretation, who frequently get the firearm's nomenclature wrong, I would be skeptical. But direct quotes were cited, so while it's possible, it's more likely we can safely rule out shotgun.
I disagree but to each their own opinion. There could have been two or multiple weapons used but if the scene was as bad as I’ve read, a semiauto pistol would have had to have been fired many times unless the perp was that dang accurate and got head/chest shots in just a try or two. Jmo
 
Agree, and I made the same point many times early on too. But in other (subsequent) articles and interviews shared here, Fitzgerald used the term "shell casings", "bullet casings. and "casings". I'm less inclined to believe police would use the term "bullet casings" to describe shot-shells. If it was only attributed to the media's interpretation, who frequently get the firearm's nomenclature wrong, I would be skeptical. But direct quotes were cited, so while it's possible, it's more likely we can safely rule out shotgun.

I think the police use generic or ambiguous terms on purpose... keeping info close to vest... you could be correct and no shotgun.. I simply like shotgun because it’s loud.. leaves cushion for error .. and any of those pellets hit your target the victim likely won’t get up ... could very well be assault rifle or handgun...two guns wouldn’t stun me either...
 

Thanks. We've been over this many times in the beginning. I've explained it several times to others. I know the nomenclature. I'm a certified firearms instructor and rifle(wo)man. If we were only talking about the words "shells" and "rounds" I would agree, it could be rifle, pistol, or shotgun. But I shot with police. I'd point, laugh, mock and ridicule my cop friends if they referred to a shotshell as a "bullet casing". :)
 
Too many mess ups and mistakes have been made by 911 operators for me to take their observations too serious.
First of all, it wasn't the 911 dispatcher who indicated this may be a suicide. It was the responding officer who made that statement. And he made that statement based on what he was seeing AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. The dispatch log is simply a record of the communication between dispatch and the public safety responders who are often in very high stress situations. Their observations are NOT the completed investigation. They do not have the information that everyone has after the fact. Unless or until you have been a 911 telecommunicator, you have no right to make judgements. MOO, based on 30 years of 911 experience.
 
Thanks. We've been over this many times in the beginning. I've explained it several times to others. I know the nomenclature. I'm a certified firearms instructor and rifle(wo)man. If we were only talking about the words "shells" and "rounds" I would agree, it could be rifle, pistol, or shotgun. But I shot with police. I'd point, laugh, mock and ridicule my cop friends if they referred to a shotshell as a "bullet casing". :)
Same, except not a certified instructor. Many cop friends as well and my usual range is the PD range
 
Same, except not a certified instructor. Many cop friends as well and my usual range is the PD range

I'm not sure where/what/if we disagree then. I don't rule out both a shotgun and handgun or rifle may have been used. I just think if Fitzgerald said "bullet casing", which apparently he did, he wasn't talking about shotgun shells. Doesn't mean there weren't both or all three. :)
 
I hear you. I'm skeptical too.

3 officers dispatched to "a hang up with lots of yelling", on a Sunday night? And they arrive within seconds of each other? Possible, of course, but it does make me wonder.
I lived in a bigger town than Barron and I’m not kidding when I say they generally sent a minimum of 3 cop cars out on most calls, even ridiculous things where there clearly was not a need for that many. I just don’t think this is uncommon in relatively small towns.
 
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