CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[Deleted member 155000]

JMO
Been thinking about the sideways parking. It would be real interesting to know if that was unusual or if he did that all the time.

One thing about doing that is if the truck was parked like I think it was then it hides a lane leading up to his trucks door. It would give a somewhat hidden path to one of the doors. Either passenger door or drivers door.

Trying to draw it below. This may not come out but will try to draw a picture. The "vvv" is the hidden lane leading up to either the front driver door or passenger door of the sideways parked vehicle.

|---|vvv|---|
|---|vvv|---|
|---|vvv|---|
|---|vvv|---|
-----------------
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Or could it have also blocked her cars from leaving?

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm wondering if Kelsey had life insurance coverage and if PF would somehow have access to the benefit as father of their child? (Assuming he isn't listed as beneficiary.) *Under the theory of foul play by the hands of PF and this was perhaps planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is life insurance. Kelsey seems to be a pretty responsible person and getting life insurance with a new baby would be a responsible thing to do. Who would be the beneficiary? My guess is that PF would be first with a trust for the minor child being the successor beneficiary.

 

[BRRI]

Yep. The chickens get killed when they no longer lay eggs. Other animals are put down when they are no longer productive if it is a real farm. Not running an animal retirement home. Those that talk differently aren't trying to run a profitable farm.

This makes sense but I’m not sure about the reports of his anger towards horses. I can’t justify that.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I probably should not admit this but don't even know HOW to delete my texts, lol.

Swipe left-

 

[BRRI]

I'm wondering if Kelsey had life insurance coverage and if PF would somehow have access to the benefit as father of their child? (Assuming he isn't listed as beneficiary.) *Under the theory of foul play by the hands of PF and this was perhaps planned.

Their daughter sure would I bet.

 

[Mom24]

This. All this. Those are WORKING dogs, not your pet on the sofa. A working bred Border Collie will destroy a house out of boredom.

Was that pet training? No.

Was that pretty standard cattle dog training? Actually, yes.

Again, I suspect PF is somehow involved. But with the evidence released as of now, there's nothing. I'm seeing a lot of fairly normal country farming behavior honestly. And for as odd as it looks to an outsider who is used to urban life, your urban life can be baffling to someone who is used to rural country life.

That wasn't standard training, it wasn't humane training and it wasn't even smart training. That enclosure is far too small with no room for escape, that's poor planning and beyond being reckless, it's cruel. When you have dogs who are strong heelers you have to be in control and keep them from being too aggressive, the last thing you want is the vet bills from an aggressive heeler. He was teaching aggression without any direction. All he did was terrorize the calves and then teach the dog to be aggressive with them. He didn't get in the pen and interact with the dog, lead the dog, slow the dog down. The pen was too small and the dogs were trampled, that's the trainer's fault because he hasn't shown the dog how to herd.
While he's training dogs to be aggressive, they're not herding, they're not learning patterns, how to reign in the aggression and the techniques necessary for a good herding dog. Add to that the small enclosure and you've only set up a dog to be injured. That's not standard cattle dog training, it's at best reckless and at it's core it's inhumane.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Playing devil’s advocate what if $25,000 donation came from PF. Would that change the opinion of those that are 100% sure he’s guilty?

And if you feel he’s guilty and if he’s the 25k donor that makes you feel he’s more guilty....then PF is absolutely correct to not speak to LE or the media. MOO If innocent PFs life is already ruined.

Also having followed this case since the beginning, only verified information I have seen is texts were from KBs phone to her job and PF on 11/25. Mom called PF on 12/2 and shortly after called police and teported KB missing. JMO (but based on MSM and police timelines to arrive at my opinion)

If PF was involved he got a HUGE assist from KBs family and friends that no one noticed (enough) from 11/23 to 12/1 that they hadn’t heard from her/she wasn’t responding to calls and texts. I blame her family and friends for not reporting her missing more than PF (assuming they were not an active couple and her 11/25 text said something along the lines of ‘don’t call me I’ll call you’) Even the information from the aunt (that could be based on CB convo with PF on 12/2) was that PF said KB went to visit family, if any KB relatives heard that info before 12/2, then it’s even more baffling they didn’t report her missing until 12/2.

I am not among those who think it's 100% him. Hovering at about 80 him/19 another perp/1 self motivated. But if he was the one who provided the reward, that would NOT change my opinion whatsoever. Because if he was somehow involved (hypothetically) and knows there is no one who could claim the reward, he could offer a million dollars if he wanted...bc he would know it can't be claimed. MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't have them. Sorry!
MOO

Found it. Photo originally taken and posted by @mustloveco

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #2

 

[girlhasnoname]

THIS....LOL. We have one of those too. We’ve affectionately named her Harriet Oleson in our home. She can be a real thorn in my side at times, but I’ll tell you what she’d be my savior if I suddenly went missing.

Absolutely can count on her first, she is the Boss Lady around here.

 

[Kapua]

Idk. With the amount of people with cameras today, a stranger may still be worried about covering their tracks.

A stranger wouldn't need to cover his tracks. He wouldn't be on LE's radar screen. He would not care if she was reported missing on Nov 22nd, Nov. 25th or Dec. 2. He would not be a POI at all, particularly not when the missing woman had a "fiancé" or an "ex".

 

[1wonderleads2another]

I think CB and PF were not in regular communication, Regardless of the status of KP and PF’s relationship.

Therefore in my mind it’s entirely possible what KB told her mother that she had as a set of plans on 11/22 , PF knew nothing about.

It’s also probable that whatever KB said in the text to PF on 11/25 about her plans , he assumed she had already discussed with her family. (If innocent)

As someone else mentioned, I would love to know KBs phone activity from 11/22 thru 11/25 . Internet , texts, calls and all pings

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Border collies are used as cattle dogs because it is their instinct to herd animals. In that video he has an experienced dog and 4 pups that are just learning. They already know how to herd instinctively and want to do it. The training is largely about learning the commands from the rancher as to what he wants done with the animals. The pups are chained to the fence because if they aren't they will charge in to herd the cows. He doesn't want that yet. They are on very short leashes so that they cant start to run and get snapped back, but enough leash so they can go under to the other side of the fence to get out of the arena if necessary. He comment about his hand is that he would rather cut off his right hand that be without the dog. ie, the dog is THAT important to him. None of those dogs are scared. Herding dogs nip the back of the legs of animals to get them to move, its what they do, there is nothing abusive about it. Honestly, I think people are just starting to make stuff up now.

After reading some of the negative comments regarding the treatment of the dogs on the videos I wasn't going to watch them. However, after reading a few posts reporting nothing abusive is being done I watched them and I don't see anything abusive either.
jmo

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Apologies to all. I’ve answered a couple of people that the mom had some contact with PF prior to text messages received on 11/25. I’ve reread MSM and have not found that reference again. My mistake. I’m sorry for adding to confusion. I’m going to be quiet for a while now.

 

[gitana1]

Yes. When you are taken to the second location your chances of survival drastically decrease.

That's right. It's part of the logic behind a survival method called the three t's. Test, threaten, transport. Attackers tend to test a possible victim first to see if they're viable prey. That can be something as innocuous as asking a woman in a dark parking average or as she runs by on a trail, for the time. Or saying hi to her. Does she timidly approach and politely answer? What is her body language and demeanor? My dad taught me to make bold eye contact and be confident and impolite: "I don't know, chief. Go ask a man." I didn't pass his test. Next victim.

For those who do pass the predator test, he moves to the threaten stage. This can be done by using a weapon, making a scary statement or even physically invading the victim's space. So man who asked for the time and got a polite answer is now moving rapidly closer, for example. Maybe blocking the woman from getting around him.

This is when she has to aggressively address the threat- "Get the F away from me!" Or use a weapon on him if he pulls one on you. Etc.

Final stage, transport. Predators virtually never rape or kill someone where they find them. They always take them somewhere else even if it's to drag them feet away behind a car.

Don't let that happen. So you feel someone push a gun or knife against you on the street "You better some with me or I will kill you." As my dad taught me, the proper response is "F you, dude. Kill me now!" The chances or surviving an attack in public are far better than if you allow yourself to be transported. I'd rather be shot in a mall parking lot than put in a trunk and then transported to be repeatedly raped and tortured before I'm killed.

Of course this method of survival is easier to use when the predator is a stranger. What if it's someone you know and don't think badly of?

 

[PrairieWind]

That wasn't standard training, it wasn't humane training and it wasn't even smart training. That enclosure is far too small with no room for escape, that's poor planning and beyond being reckless, it's cruel. When you have dogs who are strong heelers you have to be in control and keep them from being too aggressive, the last thing you want is the vet bills from an aggressive heeler. He was teaching aggression without any direction. All he did was terrorize the calves and then teach the dog to be aggressive with them. He didn't get in the pen and interact with the dog, lead the dog, slow the dog down. The pen was too small and the dogs were trampled, that's the trainer's fault because he hasn't shown the dog how to herd.
While he's training dogs to be aggressive, they're not herding, they're not learning patterns, how to reign in the aggression and the techniques necessary for a good herding dog. Add to that the small enclosure and you've only set up a dog to be injured. That's not standard cattle dog training, it's at best reckless and at it's core it's inhumane.

His techniques as shown in the videos I saw are completely normal and standard and in accordance with what I have seen of other herding dogs and trainers.

 

[UnicornDragon]

She definitely would have had life insurance through work at minimum, and if the child was listed as the beneficiary and he was the guardian then he would have access to that money. It is unusual for someone else to be put as the trustee because it creates problems unless you don't trust the guardian. Who is going to say that if they want access to their grandchild?

Not necessarily. Life insurance for a pilot is actually not as easy to get. There are a lot of aviation exclusions.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

My mistake. Sorry.

 

[gitana1]

Yep. The chickens get killed when they no longer lay eggs. Other animals are put down when they are no longer productive if it is a real farm. Not running an animal retirement home. Those that talk differently aren't trying to run a profitable farm.

Dogs aren't livestock.

 

[LittleDoe]

I feel like I'm the "We don't know the first date that CB talked to PF" police. But we don't! It has never been specified by LE what day CB "reached out to PF and he called her back." I don't even have thoughts on this. Just trying to keep the reported facts straight.



What tweet?

Okay.

 

[PommyMommy]

Found it. Photo originally taken and posted by @mustloveco

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #2

Good job! So, is this parking area shared by two units?
MOO