CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

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Exactly. The mother has nothing to gain in this instance by lying about her conversation with KB. Additionally, all evidence, (the way KB’s day) prior to her disappearance was playing out supports her mother’s version of events. The deviation comes in PF’s story.

KB disappears....PF have you heard from her? Answer...we broke up.
She’s not home, I can’t find her....PF....she said she was going to visit her grandma in Soap Lake.
Surprise....texts from KB to employer don’t look for me, and one to PF...big secret.....
Still missing? Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer. Silence.

This is my rendition of course. But you see where the discrepancy lies, imho.


My apologies in advance as I assume this has been discussed in a previous thread, but I can not keep up with this case. I took one day off and came back to two new threads and one with 14 new pages.

Do we know it is a fact that either of them confirmed a break up. I see it mentioned that Kelseys Aunt confirmed it, but I was following the thread where this was asked and if she could verify this, and I never saw her verify the information. I spent time this morning searching for her messages, and I am either inept (a big possibility) or she is no longer on the board and her messages are deleted.
If the break up is a confirmed event that changes the way I look at this case.

That also makes it far more reasonable that KB left on an unexplained soul searching trip without alerting family. There are many places that one can go missing in Idaho when a car goes off the road.
I was just west of Gooding this weekend, and can confirm that my cell lost service within 15 miles of turning off the freeway. No towers and no pings, as I ventured nearly a full day over literally hundreds of miles.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if there is life insurance. Kelsey seems to be a pretty responsible person and getting life insurance with a new baby would be a responsible thing to do. Who would be the beneficiary? My guess is that PF would be first with a trust for the minor child being the successor beneficiary.
I’m actually thinking beneficiaries may be her family, mom/dad or possibly her brother, with trust for the baby.
 
And a working dog isn't a pet.

We have flock guard dogs. They are by far closer to livestock than they are to your pet on the sofa. Trying to keep one as a pet leads to a badly damaged dog with a broken mind. I've seen it done, it's not pretty.

Agreed. But it looks like we have country people posting who disagree about whether this guy was abusive to animals and whether his training of those dogs indicated anything.

Prairiewind seems to think that the training is normal and seemed appalled by my conjecture that hes the type to shoot a dog who can no longer work for the owner. Mom24 found the methods not effective, dangerous and inhumane.
Others seem to equate working dogs with chickens and this it's okay to get rid a dog who can no longer work, which seems to go against what Prairiewind thinks.

I'm not a country person. But I know a few. I've seen them interact quite a bit with their working breeds. Yeah, I didn't see a lot of lovey dovey pet stuff. They're not couch companions. And one friend told me he would immediately shoot his dog if it started chasing/attacking sheep or bit anyone because such a dog can't be rehabbed and would ruin their business (renting their land to sheep farmers). That seemed reasonable to me.

But the farm/ranch people I've known treated their dogs with respect and loved them in a gruff way. They didn't treat them like livestock. They treated them more like valued partners or workers on the farm and I saw affection.

So I guess attitudes differ.

True I'm looking at his video through an urban lens and also from the bias that I suspect him of a crime. That makes a difference. But while I didn't see outright abuse, something about his demeanor, his words and his overall treatment and attitude toward his animals, seemed off to me and supports the idea (to me) that this is a cold, angry person who is likely abusive to animals.

Clearly, people see things differently. So it's very subjective.
 
Not criticizing the dog herding trade. It's the way the dogs are handled,and treated,and even other dog trainers taking notice. Combined with other reports of his way with animals.
Fair enough. But his way may be the "typical" way. My point being, if you eat cow, then you are essentially indirectly complicit in the treatment of the dogs in the end. Right? Just something to keep in mind, that's all.
 
A week after first press conference, no new details on disappearance of Kelsey Berreth
Woodland Park Police Dept. has been tight-lipped about the investigation. Since Monday they've released no new information other than to say because the search warrant was sealed there are no details available about what they found.

On Monday, FOX21 contacted the Colorado Bureau of Investigation with a number of specific questions.

This was their response:

"These are great questions. Investigators continue to follow-up on leads and tips that have been reported since Kelsey's disappearance. While we cannot comment on the specifics of Kelsey's case, the team is working nearly around the clock on this investigation that, as the chief stated, is the department's number one priority."

Neighbors who lived next to Kelsey Berreth said she kept to her self, maybe they just saw her getting her mail or coming in and out. Neighbors also noted they believe red truck removed from Patrick Frazee's home during the search was Kelsey's because neighbors have seen her drive it home.

Many people refused an on-camera interview saying they moved to mountain town likes this to avoid the spotlight.


I can't help but think all the discovery released in the watts case has put people off from talking....
 
I'm not sure she only had two parking spaces. Satellite images make it look like she could fit 4 cars there. She had more parking space than her neighbor she shared a wall with anyway:
View attachment 160449
Google Maps
Each house you see there is a two unit townhouse. Kelsey's house shares an interior wall with a neighbor. And both units share the parking area.
 
New guy here... lurked a lot during the Tibbetts case as well as Watts, which was close to home along with this one.

I wanted to share some thoughts about the phone sending messages on 11/25. I apologize if this has been brought up already. Most smartphones have a very limited battery life, so whoever was in possession of the phone on 11/25 would have had to have it powered off to make it from 11/22 to 11/25 or they would have had to be in possession of a charger that matches her phone. Really, there are 3 types for most smart phones these days... Apple, USB-C, or micro USB. That leads me to ask, where is KB's phone charger? Of course, we don't know the answer to this. If she was the one to send the messages, then surely she would have to have her charger with her. If she did not, then the phone was likely shut off or someone had in their possession or had to procure a matching charger that would keep it going for 3 days. We've heard that the phone pinged in Idaho. Many have wondered if it was pinging along the way. I know my phone wouldn't make it very long searching for signal going from CO to ID over 3 days unless it was plugged in. I'm thinking it was turned on in the location after being off. I wonder what kind of phone KB has as well as PF. Both Apple? Both Android?

The other thing I wanted to mention was that PF in one of his dog videos, which are several years old, said he had to borrow a smart phone to make the video because he didn't have one. Some have wondered how tech savvy he is. How many of you didn't have a smart phone 4.5 years ago? Just throwing it out there. Not saying anything about his intelligence, but besides PF, my wife is the only person I know who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago.

Welcome! Great post especially the smart phone portion, I didn’t know that
 
Thank you gitana1. I respect your opinion a lot. I also think adding the dynamic of Kelsey's brother having a husband and CB and her son are not estranged over that gives even more support to the idea that Kelsey and her mom were close. By all appearances Kelsey was accepted by her family even having a baby and not being married. I think had Kelsey broken up with PF she would have told her mom and her brother. I get the feeling she was close to her brother too because he knew her make-up kit and suitcases (and brother-in-law was in tears in the interview I saw, bless him). I think the family would have rallied around her to support her emotionally in whatever she wanted to do if she and PF were no longer engaged. I'm open to the idea that the relationship was a rocky one but I no longer think they were "broken up" on Thanksgiving morning. JMO.

Yeah you're persuading me toward that position.
 
Thank you. She is also a verified insider. I don't know why this is still debated. This and you add in the appearance of a not so lovey relationship.
And her mother has said KB and PF were in a loving close relationship. Both are verified and insiders. My guess is, like any couple, they have their ups and downs and depending on when she last spoke to that relative, an opinion is formed. Maybe something was said to aunt that led her to believe there was a break up on the horizon. Maybe something was said to mom that made her believe things were better than they were. We just don't know, but the facts are we have a man who didn't report the mother missing. Even if you want to believe he received a text from her saying she was going to be gone for a week, she didn't check in to make sure her child was okay, ask to speak to the baby and after a week he wasn't concerned she wasn't coming home, how he was going to take care of the baby. He not only doesn't report her missing, refuses to be interviewed by police, hasn't put up a missing poster, hasn't attended a single news conference and his main concern is his privacy.
At the crux of this, it's apparent that this young woman is missing and the last person to see her is only concerned about protecting himself. That's not a man, it's got nothing to do with be rural or urban, it doesn't matter if they broke up, it doesn't even matter if they never had a "lovey" relationship. He's not looking for her because he doesn't want her found, he's protecting himself because he's the only one that matters, and he's using his child as a buffer like the real man he is.
 
New guy here... lurked a lot during the Tibbetts case as well as Watts, which was close to home along with this one.

I wanted to share some thoughts about the phone sending messages on 11/25. I apologize if this has been brought up already. Most smartphones have a very limited battery life, so whoever was in possession of the phone on 11/25 would have had to have it powered off to make it from 11/22 to 11/25 or they would have had to be in possession of a charger that matches her phone. Really, there are 3 types for most smart phones these days... Apple, USB-C, or micro USB. That leads me to ask, where is KB's phone charger? Of course, we don't know the answer to this. If she was the one to send the messages, then surely she would have to have her charger with her. If she did not, then the phone was likely shut off or someone had in their possession or had to procure a matching charger that would keep it going for 3 days. We've heard that the phone pinged in Idaho. Many have wondered if it was pinging along the way. I know my phone wouldn't make it very long searching for signal going from CO to ID over 3 days unless it was plugged in. I'm thinking it was turned on in the location after being off. I wonder what kind of phone KB has as well as PF. Both Apple? Both Android?

The other thing I wanted to mention was that PF in one of his dog videos, which are several years old, said he had to borrow a smart phone to make the video because he didn't have one. Some have wondered how tech savvy he is. How many of you didn't have a smart phone 4.5 years ago? Just throwing it out there. Not saying anything about his intelligence, but besides PF, my wife is the only person I know who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago.

Smart observations. Lots of food for thought.
 
That's right. It's part of the logic behind a survival method called the three t's. Test, threaten, transport. Attackers tend to test a possible victim first to see if they're viable prey. That can be something as innocuous as asking a woman in a dark parking average or as she runs by on a trail, for the time. Or saying hi to her. Does she timidly approach and politely answer? What is her body language and demeanor? My dad taught me to make bold eye contact and be confident and impolite: "I don't know, chief. Go ask a man." I didn't pass his test. Next victim.

For those who do pass the predator test, he moves to the threaten stage. This can be done by using a weapon, making a scary statement or even physically invading the victim's space. So man who asked for the time and got a polite answer is now moving rapidly closer, for example. Maybe blocking the woman from getting around him.

This is when she has to aggressively address the threat- "Get the F away from me!" Or use a weapon on him if he pulls one on you. Etc.

Final stage, transport. Predators virtually never rape or kill someone where they find them. They always take them somewhere else even if it's to drag them feet away behind a car.

Don't let that happen. So you feel someone push a gun or knife against you on the street "You better some with me or I will kill you." As my dad taught me, the proper response is "F you, dude. Kill me now!" The chances or surviving an attack in public are far better than if you allow yourself to be transported. I'd rather be shot in a mall parking lot than put in a trunk and then transported to be repeatedly raped and tortured before I'm killed.

Of course this method of survival is easier to use when the predator is a stranger. What if it's someone you know and don't think badly of?
We sound like 'sisters from another mister' LOL Refreshingly honest G, thx!
 
lol and I'm the opposite but still a luddite -- I have a flip phone and every month or so it says my text messages are getting full and I HAVE to delete a bunch or I won't get new ones...

Also -- re the red trucks, I wonder if that first neighbor, the one who saw the red truck so often that she thought PF lived there, was getting the two trucks mixed up. KB's red truck would indeed be there nearly all the time, if she commuted in the sedan. And incidentally, that newish Toyota Tacoma is sure a nice rig for someone with money issues... Almost too nice for ranch work... In my ranching town, Toyotas are for evil liberals (like me, lol) and ranchers use almost universally American-made makes. One more point, re parking -- remember that if her place is a duplex, then even if there are four spots, she really only has permission to use two of them. Generally speaking. MOO

I dragged my feet for years on upgrading technology, lol. I had a flip phone up until recently too.

When I said four spots I was referring to the space in front of KB's side of the duplex looked big enough for 4 cars. Her neighbor has some sort of large planter and has less space on that side. Her neighbor might only fit 2 cars (or 3 if one is turned the way that PF's truck was seen to be parked). It's possible PF parked that way all the time because neighbors did too but I'm not seeing examples of that kind of parking in the google earth photos.

Here is a mock up showing how many cars could fit normally using the neighbors car (left image is unedited, right side I simply copied and pasted the car):
 

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I can't help but think all the discovery released in the watts case has put people off from talking....

If the police asked you not to talk to the press because they didn't want the perp to get any information on who has or hasn't seen them on thanksgiving and what time, until they can talk to the perp and get his story- would you talk to the press? Or would you wait and not interfere with trying to get the perp to mess up his story? My guess is the police did this and then slowly will tell certain witness - go to the press with your story now. Trying to slowly make the perp see they are onto him, get him nervous, get him making mistakes. This would be especially true if the suspect is not talking to police or the media. He is holding everything close to his chest so no one can contradict his story. If it is PF... which I believe it is.
 
I have read that KB dropped off the baby to PF at his house or met him to exchange the baby. In the beginning I even read they met at Safeway. Now it seems that it's possible that he came to her house to get the baby. Can anyone confirm which scenario is correct? I watched both press conferences and can't seem to find an answer.
 
My apologies in advance as I assume this has been discussed in a previous thread, but I can not keep up with this case. I took one day off and came back to two new threads and one with 14 new pages.

Do we know it is a fact that either of them confirmed a break up. I see it mentioned that Kelseys Aunt confirmed it, but I was following the thread where this was asked and if she could verify this, and I never saw her verify the information. I spent time this morning searching for her messages, and I am either inept (a big possibility) or she is no longer on the board and her messages are deleted.
If the break up is a confirmed event that changes the way I look at this case.

That also makes it far more reasonable that KB left on an unexplained soul searching trip without alerting family. There are many places that one can go missing in Idaho when a car goes off the road.
I was just west of Gooding this weekend, and can confirm that my cell lost service within 15 miles of turning off the freeway. No towers and no pings, as I ventured nearly a full day over literally hundreds of miles.

No, and unless I’m mistaken, any comment that she did make was on social media, not here. And whether she later deleted it or didn’t, the point remains that she didn’t say it here. So we have no basis in fact to speculate about a breakup. What we do have is Mom saying the relationship was good and strong.

The prospect of him killing her is just as strong regardless of relationship status anyway.

As to her going on a soul searching trip... once again, she left her vehicles at home. If she had rented a car we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If she borrowed from someone, we would know all about it.

And to your experience with cell phone service in Idaho. That’s your experience with your particular carrier. A different carrier would have different results. I have two phones, one with Verizon and one with Sprint. The Verizon phone has LTE service 99.99% of the places I go, but the Sprint phone often drops to 3G or 1X. We don’t know what carrier KB had.
 
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