CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[Gardener1850]

New guy here... lurked a lot during the Tibbetts case as well as Watts, which was close to home along with this one.

I wanted to share some thoughts about the phone sending messages on 11/25. I apologize if this has been brought up already. Most smartphones have a very limited battery life, so whoever was in possession of the phone on 11/25 would have had to have it powered off to make it from 11/22 to 11/25 or they would have had to be in possession of a charger that matches her phone. Really, there are 3 types for most smart phones these days... Apple, USB-C, or micro USB. That leads me to ask, where is KB's phone charger? Of course, we don't know the answer to this. If she was the one to send the messages, then surely she would have to have her charger with her. If she did not, then the phone was likely shut off or someone had in their possession or had to procure a matching charger that would keep it going for 3 days. We've heard that the phone pinged in Idaho. Many have wondered if it was pinging along the way. I know my phone wouldn't make it very long searching for signal going from CO to ID over 3 days unless it was plugged in. I'm thinking it was turned on in the location after being off. I wonder what kind of phone KB has as well as PF. Both Apple? Both Android?

The other thing I wanted to mention was that PF in one of his dog videos, which are several years old, said he had to borrow a smart phone to make the video because he didn't have one. Some have wondered how tech savvy he is. How many of you didn't have a smart phone 4.5 years ago? Just throwing it out there. Not saying anything about his intelligence, but besides PF, my wife is the only person I know who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago.

Welcome Mountainman. You make some good observations. I'm one of those people who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago. Were it not for my reading all about them here I might not think to power the phone off or know about special apps you can get to send messages days later. The first time I got on an airplane with my new phone I needed the flight attendant's help to power it off, Lol. However, I have the internet at home and have since the 1990's. Before smart phones, I would have searched online for info about them. Or simply ask my LE brother about it if I were PF.

The one caveat to this way of thinking, however, is that we are assuming KB's phone was a smart phone and PF still didn't have one. I don't think we know what kind of phones they have. In my case, I finally got a smart phone because it's easier to communicate with my husband who has to have one for his job. It made sense for us both to have the same thing and we got a deal (buy one get one free with new contract). I can see PF getting a smart phone 2 years ago in order to keep better contact with Kelsey-- especially since she commuted so far to work and was always flying. And smart phone plans have come down quite a bit in recent years. "Burner" smart phones with no contract are also much cheaper and more common these days than 4 years ago (or so I have been lead to believe from reading on Websleuths )

 

[Kapua]

And her mother has said KB and PF were in a loving close relationship. Both are verified and insiders. My guess is, like any couple, they have their ups and downs and depending on when she last spoke to that relative, an opinion is formed. Maybe something was said to aunt that led her to believe there was a break up on the horizon. Maybe something was said to mom that made her believe things were better than they were. We just don't know, but the facts are we have a man who didn't report the mother missing. Even if you want to believe he received a text from her saying she was going to be gone for a week, she didn't check in to make sure her child was okay, ask to speak to the baby and after a week he wasn't concerned she wasn't coming home, how he was going to take care of the baby. He not only doesn't report her missing, refuses to be interviewed by police, hasn't put up a missing poster, hasn't attended a single news conference and his main concern is his privacy.
At the crux of this, it's apparent that this young woman is missing and the last person to see her is only concerned about protecting himself. That's not a man, it's got nothing to do with be rural or urban, it doesn't matter if they broke up, it doesn't even matter if they never had a "lovey" relationship. He's not looking for her because he doesn't want her found, he's protecting himself because he's the only one that matters, and he's using his child as a buffer like the real man he is.

Spot on!

 

[Wsimm]

I think if KB told mom/aunt/anyone in family that there were problems in the relationship, then mom wouldn't have said otherwise in her interview. Even if she just didn't want to upset PF since he has the baby, I imagine she'd just decline to comment rather than say "no issues, things were great."

On the other hand, something did seem off in her interview, like maybe she realized she didn't really know her daughter's life as well as she wished she did. Or something, something's bugging me about mom's demeanor during interview... Maybe she disapproved of certain aspects of KB's life and doesn't know quite how to set that aside for now... Or could be just that she's super intimidated by the media spotlight, as I would no doubt be as well.



lol and I'm the opposite but still a luddite -- I have a flip phone and every month or so it says my text messages are getting full and I HAVE to delete a bunch or I won't get new ones...

Also -- re the red trucks, I wonder if that first neighbor, the one who saw the red truck so often that she thought PF lived there, was getting the two trucks mixed up. KB's red truck would indeed be there nearly all the time, if she commuted in the sedan. And incidentally, that newish Toyota Tacoma is sure a nice rig for someone with money issues... Almost too nice for ranch work... In my ranching town, Toyotas are for evil liberals (like me, lol) and ranchers use almost universally American-made makes. One more point, re parking -- remember that if her place is a duplex, then even if there are four spots, she really only has permission to use two of them. Generally speaking. MOO

My thought too! My rednecky sons would be saying “Nah, what cowboy doesn’t own a Cummins”?

 

[BRRI]

No, and unless I’m mistaken, any comment that she did make was on social media, not here. And whether she later deleted it or didn’t, the point remains that she didn’t say it here. So we have no basis in fact to speculate about a breakup. What we do have is Mom saying the relationship was good and strong.

The prospect of him killing her is just as strong regardless of relationship status anyway.

As to her going on a soul searching trip... once again, she left her vehicles at home. If she had rented a car we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If she borrowed from someone, we would know all about it.

And to your experience with cell phone service in Idaho. That’s your experience with your particular carrier. A different carrier would have different results. I have two phones, one with Verizon and one with Sprint. The Verizon phone has LTE service 99.99% of the places I go, but the Sprint phone often drops to 3G or 1X. We don’t know what carrier KB had.

It was posted here too before she was verified and then deleted

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

So, both posters here that have commented that they didn’t get a smart phone recently, have also both said they are not good at technology. If you use that as the basis of speculation, PF likely didn’t manipulate that ping or the phone. If he did this, it was either a false ping (by fault of a glitch) or he was physically in Idaho.

I would think it's the latter. Based on His truck being taken via the search warrant,and him being the last known person to have contact with her. Per his own account of getting their child handed off to him,and her phone,and purse nowhere to be found.

 

[Lhughessk]

It would be interesting to know what or if he responded to the text that came from KB's phone from Idaho.

It’s extremely important to know what was going on with his phone during those three or four days. Even if he went to Idaho with her phone, and sent a text on the 25th, it’s still a problem being able to show that text as read, and be able to reply to it when his phone is in Colorado and he’s in Idaho. Not to mention, if he’s got an accomplice working his phone back in Colorado, that accomplice has to spend those three or four days mimicking the normal routine that PF would be doing if he had physical control of that phone. So that means the accomplice would have to be on the family farm most if not all of that time, and any trips off the farm would have to be synced up with PF’s story later about how he spent those days, should LE get the chance to ask.

Sure he could just turn his phone off but that creates problems rather than solving them. I. Don’t know why he would undertake an elaborate ruse with her phone. Only to turn off his own.

 

[Charlot123]

That wasn't standard training, it wasn't humane training and it wasn't even smart training. That enclosure is far too small with no room for escape, that's poor planning and beyond being reckless, it's cruel. When you have dogs who are strong heelers you have to be in control and keep them from being too aggressive, the last thing you want is the vet bills from an aggressive heeler. He was teaching aggression without any direction. All he did was terrorize the calves and then teach the dog to be aggressive with them. He didn't get in the pen and interact with the dog, lead the dog, slow the dog down. The pen was too small and the dogs were trampled, that's the trainer's fault because he hasn't shown the dog how to herd.
While he's training dogs to be aggressive, they're not herding, they're not learning patterns, how to reign in the aggression and the techniques necessary for a good herding dog. Add to that the small enclosure and you've only set up a dog to be injured. That's not standard cattle dog training, it's at best reckless and at it's core it's inhumane.

I am not a cattle owner nor a farmer, in fact, the opposite, a total city person, but from my observation, one thing the farmers don't forgive is inhumane attitude towards animals. The farmers' line in my family could never forgive one person (from another line) his cruelty towards animals. That guy died eons ago, decades before my birth, he is just a name in my family tree, and yet I heard about him, as a child. Apparently, he was a great husband and father, and yet everyone remembered his dog being afraid of him, and why.

So I assume that certain traits might be professional. People who live on the land, in proximity to their animals, usually have some loyalty towards them. I wonder what stories about PF are told in the farmers' community, if any.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes of course people can't compare how one works with a working dog to how a pet is treated. Different worlds.

That being said, several country people on here said he seemed off with those dogs.

I won't say he was abusing them but his demeanor and inflection felt...off to me. Made me feel he is an abusive person. I don't think he treated those animals with respect. And they're not being bred for meat. They're being bred to work with humans.

Like I said, I know farmers with working farms and working dogs and have seen how they treat their animals. There's something different here.

Not one ounce of respect which a good farmer should have. IMO.

I stand by my opinion that this seems to be a cold and abusive man with a temper who would likely shoot a dog after he has no use for it.

It's my instinct. I understand I could be wrong and sure hope I am. For Kelsey and their baby's sake.

A "working dog" still needs to be treated humanely. As several experienced in dog training on here have pointed out, there is a way to train animals humanely and PF wasn't doing it. The dogs in his video were terrified. That's my opinion after seeing the videos. PF is a very angry man. JMO

 

[UnicornDragon]

Private insurance- yes lots of exclusions. But life insurance through DOSS, her employer is highly likely if she worked there full time.

Not all employers offer life insurance coverage, and there are limitations even from a group life insurance product. Until I see something from DOSS that KB does have life insurance, I'm not going to assume she has any.

 

[Charlot123]

So, both posters here that have commented that they didn’t get a smart phone recently, have also both said they are not good at technology. If you use that as the basis of speculation, PF likely didn’t manipulate that ping or the phone. If he did this, it was either a false ping (by fault of a glitch) or he was physically in Idaho.

Agree. Either physically in ID, or someone who was good with the phones advised him.


BTW, the simplest question - does anyone know what phone KB has, and what phone does PF own? That would already answer a lot of questions. KB is flying, so, no need in smartphone during the day, and it is my impression that as a young mom, and a house owner, she would be saving money. Is her phone top of the line, or merely an old LG? Maybe there was no lock or passcode on it?

 

[k80dixon]

I have seen a few posts that say the poster has heard PF's mother is allegedly disabled in some way or unwell. I have never seen a verified reference for this within these posts. Could someone please post the original reference regarding the health of PF's mother? Thanks in advance.

I understand we are not allowed to sleuth members of PF's family, and that is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a verified reference to the information that is being posted on this forum regarding SF's alleged disability. Or has it just been assumed since PF is living with his mother on her ranchette that she has health problems and he is caring for her and then that unverified info has been copied by others?

No offense to anyone. Just trying to establish the truth.

I would also like to know if this info was ever verified. Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the rumor started sometime last Wednesday/Thursday with a forum member that was insinuating (though never confirmed or verified) that they were related to PF. They said the grandmother was disabled and "takes good care of her grandbaby." I tried to find a link to the comment, but it looks like the member has closed their account. Other established members tried to get this poster to become verified and asked that they not derail the board with unverified information, but it can't be unheard (unread).

 

[MassGuy]

According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

ETA: We don’t know if it was a “search,” but a convoy of law enforcement vehicles was seen leaving his property.

 

[Madison418]

According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

Hmmmm, interesting. I wonder if there will be any upcoming press conferences or anything

 

[Kapua]

I want to know how PF explained to his family that the baby was with him 24/7 from Nov. 22 on.

 

[susiQ]

Thank you gitana1. I respect your opinion a lot. I also think adding the dynamic of Kelsey's brother having a husband and CB and her son are not estranged over that gives even more support to the idea that Kelsey and her mom were close. By all appearances Kelsey was accepted by her family even having a baby and not being married. I think had Kelsey broken up with PF she would have told her mom and her brother. I get the feeling she was close to her brother too because he knew her make-up kit and suitcases (and brother-in-law was in tears in the interview I saw, bless him). I think the family would have rallied around her to support her emotionally in whatever she wanted to do if she and PF were no longer engaged. I'm open to the idea that the relationship was a rocky one but I no longer think they were "broken up" on Thanksgiving morning. JMO.

I've mentioned before, it's quite possible Kelsey thought things were fine, and if not "perfectly" fine, at least working. What we don't know is what happened after the phone call with her mom that morning. Two calls actually. We do know she went to Safeway, appeared to have come home (both vehicles found at her home) and his truck was seen at her house that afternoon (if the neighbour recalled correctly). We don't know how long they were there together before he left with their daughter or if they left together in his truck with the daughter. Essentially we know very little. Lots of speculation. Much of the theorizing is driven by PF's narrative of what happened. IF the story about him cheating on is ex is true we KNOW he has no compunction about deceiving others. Not all cheaters are capable of murder though.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

New guy here... lurked a lot during the Tibbetts case as well as Watts, which was close to home along with this one.

I wanted to share some thoughts about the phone sending messages on 11/25. I apologize if this has been brought up already. Most smartphones have a very limited battery life, so whoever was in possession of the phone on 11/25 would have had to have it powered off to make it from 11/22 to 11/25 or they would have had to be in possession of a charger that matches her phone. Really, there are 3 types for most smart phones these days... Apple, USB-C, or micro USB. That leads me to ask, where is KB's phone charger? Of course, we don't know the answer to this. If she was the one to send the messages, then surely she would have to have her charger with her. If she did not, then the phone was likely shut off or someone had in their possession or had to procure a matching charger that would keep it going for 3 days. We've heard that the phone pinged in Idaho. Many have wondered if it was pinging along the way. I know my phone wouldn't make it very long searching for signal going from CO to ID over 3 days unless it was plugged in. I'm thinking it was turned on in the location after being off. I wonder what kind of phone KB has as well as PF. Both Apple? Both Android?

The other thing I wanted to mention was that PF in one of his dog videos, which are several years old, said he had to borrow a smart phone to make the video because he didn't have one. Some have wondered how tech savvy he is. How many of you didn't have a smart phone 4.5 years ago? Just throwing it out there. Not saying anything about his intelligence, but besides PF, my wife is the only person I know who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago.

I don't know what type of phones KB or PF have, but you can buy chargers for all phones types at virtually any gas station or store.

IF KB had an iPhone and the phone was put in airplane mode it wouldn't be searching for signal, it wouldn't ping and the battery would last a lot longer. I have an iPhone and I think it would make it for 3 days in airplane mode.

Turning on Airplane Mode disables the mobile radio. The mobile radio is what pings nearby towers giving away location data. When you turn on Airplane Mode it sends a signal to the tower stating the mobile radio is going to be disabled and that's the last piece of location information from your device. As soon as Airplane Mode is turned off a signal is sent to the tower stating the mobile radio is enable and the location information logged. With that being said, IF (big if) KB's or PF's phones were put in Airplane Mode LE would be able to know the location and when the phones had Airplane Mode turned on and off.

A digital footprint is a very important piece to most cases now. And criminals typically make pretty big mistakes when it comes to this.
jmo

 

[jaspermac]

Not all employers offer life insurance coverage, and there are limitations even from a group life insurance product. Until I see something from DOSS that KB does have life insurance, I'm not going to assume she has any.

Its unlikely going to be the motive for the crime anyway. At most they would offer 1.5 to 2x her salary based on the position she has. Peanuts..

 

[Denvergirl]

Agree. Either physically in ID, or someone who was good with the phones advised him.


BTW, the simplest question - does anyone know what phone KB has, and what phone does PF own? That would already answer a lot of questions. KB is flying, so, no need in smartphone during the day, and it is my impression that as a young mom, and a house owner, she would be saving money. Is her phone top of the line, or merely an old LG? Maybe there was no lock or passcode on it?

Oh man, your post created a new question for me. I hadn't considered that her phone may have been locked. I have face ID and a passcode on my iphone, my old iphone had fingerprint recognition. If her phone had a lock, whoever unlocked her phone - presumably the day they sent texts - would have had to have known her code or had access to her?

 

[CDB]

According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

ETA: We don’t know if it was a “search,” but a convoy of law enforcement vehicles was seen leaving his property.

Interesting that it was a "convoy" I did see at least 4 SUVs and that seems like a large number for a follow up visit.

 

[jaspermac]

I want to know how PF explained to his family that the baby was with him 24/7 from Nov. 22 on.

KB went to visit her grandmother in Soap Lake.