AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

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Two reasons...

1) Doing it at night means there are virtually no witnesses around. (Except for the parents. And as you said, the perp seemed intent on killing them.) If you think about the other options like when she is at school, church, or dance class there would be witnesses everywhere. Even taking her from the bus stop would be tough, because there is going to be a decent amount of traffic on that road at 8am. At least enough that it would be almost impossible to pull over, grab her, and take off with no one seeing it.

2) Much more getaway time. If everything had gone right and there was no 911 call, the perp would have had 10+ hours of getaway time. Taking her during the day pretty much guarantees that she's going to be reported missing pretty quickly.

If this was planned I think the perp simply weighed the options and decided that the parents would have to be killed and it would have to be done at night to ensure the fewest witnesses possible and the maximum amount of getaway time. (Now obviously the getaway time was greatly reduced due to the 911 call, but without that...)

I agree with almost all of this, except that the 911 call mattered somehow with respect to getaway time. The perp is long gone and without a trace. The 911 call had no impact on getaway time imo.

This person knew exactly how long it would take LE to get to the house, and was correct.

This person anticipated that LE would not immediately assume a crime of this magnitude had occurred, and was correct.

Perp probably planned crime so it would take a few minutes as Fitz has stated. If a 911 call was made - whether by someone in the house or by someone hearing the gun - it wouldn’t matter.

If I’m a half mile away by the time LE arrives, I may as well be a million miles away. It was 1 am on a Sunday night when I bet 95% of Barron is asleep or at the plant working.

moo.
 
I agree with almost all of this, except that the 911 call mattered somehow with respect to getaway time. The perp is long gone and without a trace. The 911 call had no impact on getaway time imo.

This person knew exactly how long it would take LE to get to the house, and was correct.

This person anticipated that LE would not immediately assume a crime of this magnitude had occurred, and was correct.

Perp probably planned crime so it would take a few minutes as Fitz has stated. If a 911 call was made - whether by someone in the house or by someone hearing the gun - it wouldn’t matter.

If I’m a half mile away by the time LE arrives, I may as well be a million miles away. It was 1 am on a Sunday night when I bet 95% of Barron is asleep or at the plant working.

moo.

Thanks Moonsie.
A Truly important perspective to take.

By design, the plan was to be warp-speed.
He or they were successful on that front.
Goal was accomplished within 1-2 minutes, perhaps.
They didn't even need the "4 minutes".

Added on Alternative scenario:

1) Perp then places the 911 call. How? Why?
a) To gain "trust" from Jayme, he says, "Get me a cellphone, I'll even call 911 to get help to your parents."
b) He dials and places the phone on the floor, or makes her do it.
c) He forces her to leave with him.​

Entire time inside the house? 3 minutes.
 
I agree with almost all of this, except that the 911 call mattered somehow with respect to getaway time. The perp is long gone and without a trace. The 911 call had no impact on getaway time imo.

This person knew exactly how long it would take LE to get to the house, and was correct.

This person anticipated that LE would not immediately assume a crime of this magnitude had occurred, and was correct.

Perp probably planned crime so it would take a few minutes as Fitz has stated. If a 911 call was made - whether by someone in the house or by someone hearing the gun - it wouldn’t matter.

If I’m a half mile away by the time LE arrives, I may as well be a million miles away. It was 1 am on a Sunday night when I bet 95% of Barron is asleep or at the plant working.

moo.

I see what you are saying. I'd agree that the 911 call didn't matter in the sense that it was going to be a quick kill-and-grab whether 911 was called or not.

I'd imagine that if all things were equal, a perp would prefer to have as much time as possible before it is known that Jayme is missing. Doing this during the day leaves no chance for that. It's not a vital part of the plan, but another reason to do it at night at her house vs at the bus stop/school/church/etc.

I don't think the perp planned on them calling 911, but I think the perp's mindset was "whether you call 911 or not, I'm getting out of here fast."
 
LE says they found the dog outside on the deck waiting at the door to come in when they arrived on the scene . Any theories?
Could someone in the Closs family have been outside before the crime occurred? Could someone have been talking to the perpetrator outside before the crime ? Somehow this discussion or meeting led to anger . Perpetrator gets gun in car and in a rage commits this horrible crime ? Someone put the dog outside .. ? Anyone think about this ?

If the door was kicked open, obviously it was still open. This was a small dog too.
 
Last night, and I do not know what time it was, my fan which I have up on a stool, fell off onto a ceramic tile floor. The noise was deafening. I was sound asleep and had no idea what happened. I thought it was outside of the house.

Apparently it must have happened to my husband when he took a nap because he knew exactly what the noise was.

It is so freaky to hear a huge noise and not know what it is or where it came from. Had my husband not known what it was, I don’t know what I would have done.

He would have gone to investigate. I live in a country with no guns allowed and the police generally do not work at night. If it would have been an unwanted person in the yard, he would have run away so the situation is so different than the US.

I think if the Closs’s were asleep, the alert time for them would be awhile.

I wonder if the lights were on in the house? I think I would not turn on the lights.
 
Last night, and I do not know what time it was, my fan which I have up on a stool, fell off onto a ceramic tile floor. The noise was deafening. I was sound asleep and had no idea what happened. I thought it was outside of the house.

Apparently it must have happened to my husband when he took a nap because he knew exactly what the noise was.

It is so freaky to hear a huge noise and not know what it is or where it came from. Had my husband not known what it was, I don’t know what I would have done.

He would have gone to investigate. I live in a country with no guns allowed and the police generally do not work at night. If it would have been an unwanted person in the yard, he would have run away so the situation is so different than the US.

I think if the Closs’s were asleep, the alert time for them would be awhile.

I wonder if the lights were on in the house? I think I would not turn on the lights.
 
I think I figured out how to quote girlhasnoname, but it’s trying to insert everything I’ve tried (and failed) to quote before. So, I’ll figure out how to clear that later. Maybe.
Anyway, yeah there’s things about every motive that sound good, but there’s things about all of them that don’t make sense also. I’ve run it through my head so many times now I’m not sure what I think anymore. I guess a targeted/planned attack by someone they knew leaves the fewest question marks for me at this point. Making it the most probable in my mind. Been trying to talk my wife and daughter into timed re-enactments. They think I’m stupid.
Don't feel bad, been there done that on the reenactment :oops:
 
I wonder how helpful an Alexa or similar device would of helped LE?
Oh now that is some good reasoning! I think I've heard something on MSM lately that LE was checking Alexa data on a case. Criminals these days sure have a harder job in most cases thank goodness.
 
That's so crazy. I have tried to get my husband and my daughter to do the same and my husband thought I was just teasing him about actually trying to reenact the timing and my daughter let's wait until after Christmas beacause I should be concentrating on my large family gathering that we are hosting. My OCD tendencies have really been in overdrive peaking at this forum daily.

This horrible situation must be agony for all of the people that care about the Closs family and those close to them that are hurting. I feel terribly for all of them and hope that Jayme will be found soon and brought home.
^ THIS ^ Hoping for a miracle.
 
Last night, and I do not know what time it was, my fan which I have up on a stool, fell off onto a ceramic tile floor. The noise was deafening. I was sound asleep and had no idea what happened. I thought it was outside of the house.

Apparently it must have happened to my husband when he took a nap because he knew exactly what the noise was.

It is so freaky to hear a huge noise and not know what it is or where it came from. Had my husband not known what it was, I don’t know what I would have done.

He would have gone to investigate. I live in a country with no guns allowed and the police generally do not work at night. If it would have been an unwanted person in the yard, he would have run away so the situation is so different than the US.

I think if the Closs’s were asleep, the alert time for them would be awhile.

I wonder if the lights were on in the house? I think I would not turn on the lights.
We had a situation the other night also. We live in the country. I had laid down in bed and had fallen asleep while leaving a lamp on in the living room, bedside lamp on in bedroom, TV on, blinds open My husband had fallen asleep on couch in basement family room with tv on. At 3:08 in the morning I was startled awake by what I thought was someone knocking on our front door by living room. I was startled and absolutely terrified. I heard same sound again about 30 seconds later I knew if someone was there they could see inside and know every move we made. I tried to move-I could not even move one inch. My body was paralyzed in fear. Hubby was downstairs where all guns are stored (locked up) and there was no way to get to him without walking right in plain site of possible intruder. I finally was able to move-it took almost 3 minutes to convince my body to do so. I shut off bedroom lights, tv and snuck to only window I could see the driveway. There
Was nothing to be seen. I locked myself in master bath for about 10 minutes then eventually did shut off rest of lights and went back to bed but did not sleep.
In the morning I checked the porch where I thought knocking had come from but found no tracks ( we had snow) but did find that that door was unlocked.
Husband said he was awaken at same time so there had to be something
Lesson learned- I responded totally different out of fear than I ever thought I would, guns locked up do you no good if you need them and for God sakes don't leave all lights on, door unlocked and blinds open. I was completely vulnerable.
Making some changes going forward
 
We had a situation the other night also. We live in the country. I had laid down in bed and had fallen asleep while leaving a lamp on in the living room, bedside lamp on in bedroom, TV on, blinds open My husband had fallen asleep on couch in basement family room with tv on. At 3:08 in the morning I was startled awake by what I thought was someone knocking on our front door by living room. I was startled and absolutely terrified. I heard same sound again about 30 seconds later I knew if someone was there they could see inside and know every move we made. I tried to move-I could not even move one inch. My body was paralyzed in fear. Hubby was downstairs where all guns are stored (locked up) and there was no way to get to him without walking right in plain site of possible intruder. I finally was able to move-it took almost 3 minutes to convince my body to do so. I shut off bedroom lights, tv and snuck to only window I could see the driveway. There
Was nothing to be seen. I locked myself in master bath for about 10 minutes then eventually did shut off rest of lights and went back to bed but did not sleep.
In the morning I checked the porch where I thought knocking had come from but found no tracks ( we had snow) but did find that that door was unlocked.
Husband said he was awaken at same time so there had to be something
Lesson learned- I responded totally different out of fear than I ever thought I would, guns locked up do you no good if you need them and for God sakes don't leave all lights on, door unlocked and blinds open. I was completely vulnerable.
Making some changes going forward
Very scary for you I'm sure. Glad you're ok.
 
That is an awesome idea RB
That feature is on my android.
iPhone is set up
Where u can press side button 5x and 911 call starts ... do we know if they had iPhones? Just curious if there was dial.. or setting on iPhone / Samsung that started call ??

They should really set the damn phones up so cameras are turned on along with mic for 5min after 911 calls.... uploading direct to cloud... really 3 cameras... quality mic..
That should atleast be option..
It is an app that will work on any phone. I have it on mine which is an Android. Problem is in a panic who is going to count to 5 while pushing a button?
 
Yes, I have thought about that as I read it somewhere else but didn't have a MSM confirmation of it.

I believe it would make sense for the dog to be found out by the back door, either having gotten out the front door as it appears left open when LE arrived, or out as someone exited the back sliders. Letting the dog out to do her 'business' makes sense to happen through the back not out close to the highway, so that might be her routine. Which actually bring up another question....

If she was found at the back door, does that mean it was closed and she couldn't get back in? It was very cold that night, wouldn't she have tried to get back inside? Or was she put outside? Oh this case keeps me up at night I'm telling 'ya.

MN/WI cold - nah. Not that cold. Took lab for a walk yesterday at about the same temp - 3 mile walk.
 
Two reasons...

1) Doing it at night means there are virtually no witnesses around. (Except for the parents. And as you said, the perp seemed intent on killing them.) If you think about the other options like when she is at school, church, or dance class there would be witnesses everywhere. Even taking her from the bus stop would be tough, because there is going to be a decent amount of traffic on that road at 8am. At least enough that it would be almost impossible to pull over, grab her, and take off with no one seeing it.

2) Much more getaway time. If everything had gone right and there was no 911 call, the perp would have had 10+ hours of getaway time. Taking her during the day pretty much guarantees that she's going to be reported missing pretty quickly.

If this was planned I think the perp simply weighed the options and decided that the parents would have to be killed and it would have to be done at night to ensure the fewest witnesses possible and the maximum amount of getaway time. (Now obviously the getaway time was greatly reduced due to the 911 call, but without that...)

So it was important to the perpetrator.
  • Get away time 10+hrs
  • No witnesses 10+hrs
Hypothetically, Had the 911 call not been made.

Depending on when Jayme was due at school or the first lesson depends on when she would have been reported absent from school by her teacher or registration process and then tracking down of NOK or Carer add another 2 hours for confusion, contacting Jennie-O for parents. Only then does the penny drop with anyone, can't get hold of parents and no Jayme that there may be something wrong. I actually see your point of view. So the possibility is the murdered and missing wouldn't, if all had gone to plan without the 911 call been noticed until 10 am Monday morning.
 
Yes, I have thought about that as I read it somewhere else but didn't have a MSM confirmation of it.

I believe it would make sense for the dog to be found out by the back door, either having gotten out the front door as it appears left open when LE arrived, or out as someone exited the back sliders. Letting the dog out to do her 'business' makes sense to happen through the back not out close to the highway, so that might be her routine. Which actually bring up another question....

If she was found at the back door, does that mean it was closed and she couldn't get back in? It was very cold that night, wouldn't she have tried to get back inside? Or was she put outside? Oh this case keeps me up at night I'm telling 'ya.
Strange this should come up now because I had thought what if James was outside with dog and noticed a crime in process...someone stealing his truck, etc. But then, I thought no, because the dog was in the house. Now there are posts saying she was outside. That makes me wonder. Could explain the way the truck was randomly parked too. jmo
 
That feature is on my android.

It is an app that will work on any phone. I have it on mine which is an Android. Problem is in a panic who is going to count to 5 while pushing a button?

It’s not counting to 5 it’s simply pushing 5x real fast... or home button and volume now..

Think it’s about second and half.. still quicker then dialing 911..

Does your android dial right away or give u 3 seconds to cancel out ??
 
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