OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#39

[Trudie]

Oh, yeah. JMO, CR1 and KR probably knew. Those guys lived there all their lives, they likely knew who was growing over the years. They may have worked for her or had been customers.

I think back in the day, locals wished to be affiliated with FWF & the elder W’s. Many, IMO, were in awe of them.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have a feeling Fred had a lot to lose if the R's talked. Billy may even have seen it as doing mama a favor to kill them all.

JMO

Something made the W’s believe they couldn’t obtain custody of S the legal and correct way. They had no problem obtaining custody of GW4’s minor child. So perhaps that is it. Maybe that’s where all the “bizarre” comes in that Dewine mentioned.

You have one family who is used to complete control, from businesses, church’s, family, children, etc.

And you have another family known to take care of their own and not take any , who had been in the area just as long as the W’s. Along with knowledge of the W’s from word of mouth in the community, the R’s also had personal knowledge once HMR & JW began a relationship and has a child.

The short of it, the R’s had the upper hand on the W’s and the truth of the W’s would have came out in a custody battle. So, the W’s did what they’ve always done. They kept control and got what they wanted. JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

OK, thanks, I'll take your word for it. It seems like a big ask to me, but maybe not.

I feel like it’s not a lot to ask considering the severity of the crimes. And the risk of this happening again had evidence not been obtained by whatever legal ways possible.

 

[Betty P]

If it were at the locations where grows were found, then it would be per Ohio's drug laws, and probably kept in the drug $ fund (the one that is being investigated).

As much as I've criticized Reader in the past, I don't think he's that careless or dumb. JMO, those are allegations someone is putting out there without proof. There may be something to the news reports of him spending some grant money without consent of county commissioners or against grant guidelines, etc. But the other stuff just sounds like a bunch of rumors, etc. Maybe someone trying to help the W's, who knows?

 

[Trudie]

I feel like it’s not a lot to ask considering the severity of the crimes. And the risk of this happening again had evidence not been obtained by whatever legal ways possible.

If an officer needs to arrest a suspect that’s now in a dif’ jurisdiction, they MUST notify the new jurisdiction of intent. Then the new jurisdiction assists. LE can’t simply run all over from state to state conducting investigations. They have no authority. Even if they’re conducting a high speed chase that extends over their jurisdictional area, the new territory is advised, then joins in the pursuit. Hundreds, if not thousand of arrest warrants are faxed from one LE to multiple LEs daily.
LE can’t have too much back up. In small towns, they can’t even do their own physical surveillance, they’d be spotted, word would spread.

 

[Betty P]

If an officer needs to arrest a suspect that’s now in a dif’ jurisdiction, they MUST notify the new jurisdiction of intent. Then the new jurisdiction assists. LE can’t simply run all over from state to state conducting investigations. They have no authority. Even if they’re conducting a high speed chase that extends over their jurisdictional area, the new territory is advised, then joins in the pursuit. Hundreds, if not thousand of arrest warrants are faxed from one LE to multiple LEs daily.
LE can’t have too much back up. In small towns, they can’t even do their own physical surveillance, they’d be spotted, word would spread.

I recently talked to someone in criminal justice who had trained and interned with one of the big federal agencies. He said their undercover people relocate a lot in their jobs. They don't want locals becoming familiar with them or suspecting who they are. Seems logical "out of towners" did a lot of the work on the W case in AK, with consent of local LE.

 

[Trudie]

As much as I've criticized Reader in the past, I don't think he's that careless or dumb. JMO, those are allegations someone is putting out there without proof. There may be something to the news reports of him spending some grant money without consent of county commissioners or against grant guidelines, etc. But the other stuff just sounds like a bunch of rumors, etc. Maybe someone trying to help the W's, who knows?

I agree.
There’s a lot of reasons for people to dislike their local LE.
Especially those involved in the system. Let someone get a DUI or speeding ticket, they suddenly HATE the law. Never mind they broke the law.
Some think their vote entitles them to never be cited or fined. Ridiculous.

 

[Dudly]

As much as I've criticized Reader in the past, I don't think he's that careless or dumb. JMO, those are allegations someone is putting out there without proof. There may be something to the news reports of him spending some grant money without consent of county commissioners or against grant guidelines, etc. But the other stuff just sounds like a bunch of rumors, etc. Maybe someone trying to help the W's, who knows?

I think Reader was wanting to move much faster and he was held back by DeWine and the PAs. That did make him look like he was hiding something or not trying hard enough to get the case solved. I no longer think any of that was his doing.
His life was even threatened over this case so apparently the Ws think he did his job. Knowing the Ws considered killing him, trying to smear him would be no surprise to me...

 

[Trudie]

I recently talked to someone in criminal justice who had trained and interned with one of the big federal agencies. He said their undercover people relocate a lot in their jobs. They don't want locals becoming familiar with them or suspecting who they are. Seems logical "out of towners" did a lot of the work on the W case in AK, with consent of local LE.

Short story. Years ago in my town, I noticed a young, lanky, long haired man had taken up daytime residency on a local bench. He always spoke to anyone passing. Eventually, he had “new” friends. Rumor had it he also had a sleeping room in a not desired area.
One afternoon, I was in the library, he was using the copy machine, holding his wallet. I stood behind him eager to make a copy. As he opened the copy machine to retrieve his original, BOING he dropped his wallet. It was flopped open, a few items dropping out along the way. I bent to help collect things. As I reached for the wallet.....there it was. His fed Marshall badge. He smiled demurely & thanked me, as I handed it to him. I saw him only one more time. A few days later there was a huge drug bust so I assumed he was here because the local police couldn’t ingratiate their own into the situation.

 

[Trudie]

I think Reader was wanting to move much faster and he was held back by DeWine and the PAs. That did make him look like he was hiding something or not trying hard enough to get the case solved. I no longer think any of that was his doing.
His life was even threatened over this case so apparently the Ws think he did his job. Knowing the Ws considered killing him, trying to smear him would be no surprise to me...

Some may think he didn’t act fast enough because we don’t know what was going on behind the scene. We do know that immediately, the big LE guys were involved, to get the investigation rolling. Even if he or anyone wanted an arrest, it could not happen until DeWine authorized arrests. They may have had info on one suspect that constituted an arrest but needed to hold off until they could get the proper evidence on the other 3.

Again, (sorry), I think the W’s were under focus by day two. It was no secret animosity existed between W’s & Rs and the coincidence that S was NOT in the home during the murders did not go unnoticed by seasoned LE.
Of course LE couldn’t do a presser “ahhh, we put a local man and his family under surveillance, we’ll update you in a few days.” They needed everyone to act normally.


(With the advent of technology, why can I not start my dishwasher and W/D from the comfort of my couch)

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Some may think he didn’t act fast enough because we don’t know what was going on behind the scene. We do know that immediately, the big LE guys were involved, to get the investigation rolling. Even if he or anyone wanted an arrest, it could not happen until DeWine authorized arrests. They may have had info on one suspect that constituted an arrest but needed to hold off until they could get the proper evidence on the other 3.

Again, (sorry), I think the W’s were under focus by day two. It was no secret animosity existed between W’s & Rs and the coincidence that S was NOT in the home during the murders did not go unnoticed by seasoned LE.
Of course LE couldn’t do a presser “ahhh, we put a local man and his family under surveillance, we’ll update you in a few days.” They needed everyone to act normally.


(With the advent of technology, why can I not start my dishwasher and W/D from the comfort of my couch)

Look at the pressure DeWine put on the local coroner to keep those autopsies out of public view. IMO that was because part of the suppressor was lodged in some of the victims wounds and he didn't want the W's to know they had that lest they get rid of the materials they made them from.

In any case none of us doubted the anger in Readers face when he talked about these murders.

JMO

 

[Trudie]

It’s never been stated FW partipiated (or not) in the revenge convo, correct? Only that it took place in her home with her in attendance (I picture them clustered around the kitchen table).

My point: if, during her GJ appearance she was asked if such a convo took place, she likely denied it. Why? Two reasons. IMO. One, she thought her home secure. Because she limited access to family or well trusted persons. Two, because she assumed her family to be waaaaaay up the creek & didn’t want to add to their problems.

I found these story lines interesting. Albeit, lengthy.
My child, the murderer

 

[OsoTejano]

It’s never been stated FW partipiated (or not) in the revenge convo, correct? Only that it took place in her home with her in attendance (I picture them clustered around the kitchen table).

My point: if, during her GJ appearance she was asked if such a convo took place, she likely denied it. Why? Two reasons. IMO. One, she thought her home secure. Because she limited access to family or well trusted persons. Two, because she assumed her family to be waaaaaay up the **** creek & didn’t want to add to their problems.

The revenge conversations are interesting. There does not appear to be any conspiracy indictments that include FW and no conspiracy indictments for this specific conspiracy. Add an unnamed confidential source and it looks like the prosecution is letting this conspiracy go uncharged to protect the identity of the confidential source. If this source was not material to the investigation or any of the evidence of the charged crimes, then the prosecution probably will not have to disclose the identity of the source.

Edit: I might add that motion 5 for AW seems to be very broad and wants EVERYTHING related to the investigation. May be and end run around the prosecution’s desire to keep this source confidential.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Some may think he didn’t act fast enough because we don’t know what was going on behind the scene. We do know that immediately, the big LE guys were involved, to get the investigation rolling. Even if he or anyone wanted an arrest, it could not happen until DeWine authorized arrests. They may have had info on one suspect that constituted an arrest but needed to hold off until they could get the proper evidence on the other 3.

Again, (sorry), I think the W’s were under focus by day two. It was no secret animosity existed between W’s & Rs and the coincidence that S was NOT in the home during the murders did not go unnoticed by seasoned LE.
Of course LE couldn’t do a presser “ahhh, we put a local man and his family under surveillance, we’ll update you in a few days.” They needed everyone to act normally.


(With the advent of technology, why can I not start my dishwasher and W/D from the comfort of my couch)

I agree the W’s were on LE’s radar from the beginning. That’s another reason I believe info was put about the grows, the road rage incident, etc. That info made the W’s believe LE had no clue and that they truly got away with it. That info made the W’ a feel secure. When people feel secure, they’re more apt to slip up. That’s JMO.

 

[Trudie]

The revenge conversations are interesting. There does not appear to be any conspiracy indictments that include FW and no conspiracy indictments for this specific conspiracy. Add an unnamed confidential source and it looks like the prosecution is letting this conspiracy go uncharged to protect the identity of the confidential source. If this source was not material to the investigation or any of the evidence of the charged crimes, then the prosecution probably will not have to disclose the identity of the source.

Edit: I might add that some of the discovery motions for AW seem like they are very broad and want EVERYTHING related to the investigation. May be and end run around the prosecution’s desire to keep this source confidential.

LE, to get necessary info, can do their best to ensure the CI remains confidential. Happens all the time.

 

[Trudie]

I agree the W’s were on LE’s radar from the beginning. That’s another reason I believe info was put about the grows, the road rage incident, etc. That info made the W’a believe LE had no clue and that they truly got away with it. That info made the W’ a feel secure. When people feel secure, they’re more apt to slip up. That’s JMO.

....like how could they NOT be, right? Of course they were.
I agree, with each passing day, the 4 had increased confidence they had gotten away with murder, of 8.
I do think their confidence was short lived. Once searches took place, they knew their freedom was short lived.

Ok, let’s move to AK. Start a new life. Just the 6 of us.
Maybe this will go away.

Nope. Not happening.

 

[Trudie]

Since JW is having the first pretrial, I think if he goes to trial, his will be the first. If if the judge will set a trial date or due to the magnitude of this, ask both sides to coordinate.

 

[Trudie]

There is just something about the "revenge against LE" meeting at FW's that does not make sense.
Clearly FW must have had something VERY big at stake to host such a meeting, and I think it was bigger than the potential charge of lying to a grand jury. I think she might have had some maternal instinct to try to save her own blood from going to prison (she would not have known DP was even on the table then) but would have stopped short of risking going to prison herself.
Does not make sense to me that RW or RAW would even be at that meeting, why get involved in a murder plot against LE? They seem to be intelligent enough not to risk going to prison themselves if the revenge plot was carried out.
At the meeting might the 4 & FW have been trying to hire some unsavory type to do their dirty work for them. You know, someone that already had a record and could be discredited in court if he tried to imply the W family had anything to do with LE murders? Sounds like there are many people out there with motive to seek revenge on LE. Maybe the meeting was held at FW's house as she was funding it?
JMO
PS - and the unsavory type was wearing a wire in exchange for getting out of some of his own legal problems.

Idk if the meeting was a “hosted” event, as in pre planned or if everyone converged on FW for advice.
I also think the 4 wouldn’t mind RWs presence.
I also feel IF RW/RAW had any clue what was going on, they would want their mom OUT of the equation & very peed off that she was involved by virtue of the 4. Totally agree with your “maternal instinct” suggestion. We see this with nearly every crime. The parent/s of the suspect rarely believe the evidence against their child true. Some, even presented with facts, will spend every dollar they have, in effort to clear their child, they simply can’t accept the truth.

Eta: if RW is an informant, I don’t find it unusual she’s in court. Someone can turn someone in or testify against them but still love them. IF either RW/RAW turned “mole”, I think it likely their decision was made as they saw their mom becoming more intertwined. And, I have no reason to believe RW/RAW are anything other than law abiding.

ETA: they knew LE was closing in after the GJ convened. I think that’s what prompted revenge discussions. Can’t we all picture G4 “I ain’t going to jail, they ain’t arresting me, I’ll shoot........”

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It’s never been stated FW partipiated (or not) in the revenge convo, correct? Only that it took place in her home with her in attendance (I picture them clustered around the kitchen table).

My point: if, during her GJ appearance she was asked if such a convo took place, she likely denied it. Why? Two reasons. IMO. One, she thought her home secure. Because she limited access to family or well trusted persons. Two, because she assumed her family to be waaaaaay up the **** creek & didn’t want to add to their problems.

I found these story lines interesting. Albeit, lengthy.
My child, the murderer

I believe it was stated that she took part in the conversation. At any rate it was in her home so she knew about it and who knows what else. She should have went to LE and came clean about it all.

I personally think she was way more involved. The reason I think this is because she was charged. As some on here have pointed out, mothers are not usually charged for lying to LE about their kids. You very rarely see that. But yet she was. That makes me think there was way more to it but lying to a GJ and obstruction of justice were the only charges LE thought they could make stick. I think she was involved, if not from the beginning, shortly thereafter. The plot to kill them all may even have came from her. I suspect that Billy is a bit of a mama's boy and if mama said they needed to be dead he would try his best to please her. Perjury and obstruction of justice was the only thing they could get her on though, because without Billy and crew talking there is no proof she knew.

At any rate she deserves jail time for allowing this to go on long after it should have ended. She obstructed justice and one father is dead before he could see his son's killers in jail. That is in large part due to Fred.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Same here. Not to sound paranoid, but we live in a very different world today. Information gathered about you, from the products you buy to where you travel, can be and are used against you by your mortgage lender, employer, bank, credit card company, and all the insurance companies you do business with, etc. There are some real horror stories out there.

BBM

Very true. One has to be very careful. Most folks have a firewall, and, either separate, or together, an antivirus/malware scanner, at minimum, on their personal computers. Many forget about their phones though. A smartphone is basically a tiny computer.

While this is not as horrible as what has happened to some, I recently had someone try and intercept a fairly significant purchase that I had made online. Someone sent the owner an email stating that the item was to be delivered to another address, in another state. The merchant caught it, and contacted me, to double check the order, thank goodness!