CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #11

[sloane7777]

I don't get this 'rural people' stuff. How rural and unnoticeable can you be in a nation of 330 million people?

I have family in rural Arkansas who can go weeks easily without really seeing another human and the vast land , if they decided to murder me I would never be found ...." She was last sighted heading out towards Huntsville " that would be under the caption and that would be IT .

 

[jillianelaine]

Possibly, but not likely. I think those texts were sent to buy time (which it did) and create an alibi (which may backfire big time) and the only person that needed that really bad was PF. Besides, what the perp can't manipulate is the digital information that existed before she went missing.

It wouldn't surprise me if the text to PF focused exclusively on her explanation of needing time to be away and failed to include other normal issues like "can your family take care of or daughter for a week" or "we can Skype if she misses me too much" and so forth.....

 

[CDB]

I think its reasonable to assume a woman who leaves her one year old child for a week, would be concerned that the child might not adjust well to the absence. That problem can be easily reduced with tools like Skype or FaceTime. I'm curious whether those programs were installed on her phone and if so, did the boyfriend appear on the contact list. And she on his. I also wonder how much time she typically spent on a computer. How often does a person traveling alone for a week do so, without a laptop or tablet--and especially if they planned to use Skype

My thoughts are that KB was not involved heavily in social media so no need to carry a tablet or laptop. I also think the phone calls on the holiday to CB suggests her typical contact method does not involve facetime. MOO

 

[cattlekate]

JMO
I agree and I have faith that they will break the case and find out what happened. Hopefully soon.

There is one thing that I have not been able to shake though. This is pure speculation and since we have heard that the father may have relatives currently or in the past in LE then I have been wondering if part of the delay in getting the investigation full throttle may have been due to some LE ties that may have been known to him. Does anyone else think that could be possible?

I would hate to think that and I guess it may not matter at this point but I am wondering if there was any internal LE pressure to not dive into the case as much as could have been done at the beginning. I suppose if its ever determined that anything like that happened then I would hope LE could take action against others if they found out they were led astray at the beginning.

All JMO and speculating.

Absolutely! I wonder about the same thing. I cannot imagine any person impeding this search. But if they were stupid enough to do it, I pray they get jail time and assets seized!

 

[SandyQLS]

BBM. Why has PF's lawyer said that they had a relationship with normal ups and downs?
And where was the 'dry toothbrush' mentioned?

- "relationship" is a very broad term and indicates nothing, which is why a lawyer uses it and doesn't get cornered by semantics. A person has a "relationship" with many persons, their mother, their neighbor, etc.

- toothbrush: there is probably a better source, one that directly quotes brother Cl.B, but here is one non-quote:

Kelsey Berreth Case: What to Know About the Missing Colorado Mom Last Seen on Thanksgiving Day

"...Sunday, Dec. 2

Kelsey’s mother, Cheryl, reported her daughter missing after being unable to reach her. Cheryl reached out to Frazee, who called her back and said he hadn’t heard from her since she had last texted.

Officers with the Woodlawn Park Police conducted a community care takers search on Kelsey’s home, which was empty. Her cars, her clothes and her toothbrush all appeared untouched since Thanksgiving, authorities said. ..."

 

[Seattle1]

I think it was her brother who reported that her toothbrush was in the home. Not dry, or the number of toothbrushes. I imagined that it was electric toothbrush if he commented that a toothbrush was there.

Except many don't travel with their electric brushes. I don't.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I was speaking specifically regarding SandyQLS’s statement which indicated that relationship status wasn’t even in doubt and she accepted that PF no longer had a “significant other”. The discussion was whether PF, if innocent, had a duty to check on KB during that entire week she was gone. Kind of hard to debate the point when we couldn’t agree on relationship status.

There’s also the question of Websleuths rules. My understanding is that any speculation must have a basis in fact. News media using the term “custody” doesn’t do it - especially when many of them also use the term “fiancé”. And your reference to the aunt doesn’t qualify as a fact, either. For one, we can’t discuss FB stuff. Two, if something is posted and then deleted, it’s no longer valid for consideration. And three, we have no way of knowing if what she posted was accurate. It could have been faulty second-hand info. The fact that it would be posted and then quickly deleted should make it less trustworthy, not more.

Meanwhile, both CB and PF’s attorney have been on record that they were in an active relationship. CB even called it “good” and “strong”. Those are things that I believe we should give more weight, given who they are coming from and the direct or semi-direct nature of the quotes.

By the way, if they actually HAD broken up, and I was PF’s attorney, I would be getting out in front of the hoopla over his lack of involvement and saying, “My client and KB actually were no longer together romantically, and that is why he didn’t feel that checking up on her after the 25th was appropriate.” But the lawyer has not said that. Maybe he’s not a good lawyer. You don’t necessarily get a lot of good attorney options in a small town. I’ve lived it.

Whoa, back up the truck. First, what the aunt had posted is quoted verbatim in the media and those articles and stories have been linked in these threads. So, don't make an accusation that I am breaking WS rules and relying on FB posts that can't be discussed because that is absolutely not the case at all.

The DailyMail story that quotes the aunt's post verbatim acknowledges that it had been deleted and that there was no explanation why it was deleted other than Kelsey's mother asked her to do so. More to the point, that entire section of that article was related to the status of the relationship.

All you are try tell me is that you personally give more weight to what certain individuals say and ignore the rest. None of that is an argument against whether there is a basis to question the relationship status. You have your opinion, I have mine.

 

[jillianelaine]

That is an excellent point. If a stranger/acquaintance abducted her, why the need to stall for more time? The only person the stall really benefits is PF because it gives him a reason not to worry about where she is.

jmo

I think that is a very critical point and for me, the one thing that really really convinces me of his guilt. If she disappeared on Thanksgiving, why

My thoughts are that KB was not involved heavily in social media so no need to carry a tablet or laptop. I also think the phone calls on the holiday to CB suggests her typical contact method does not involve facetime. MOO

I suspect she is not heavily into social media yet I still think that she might be concerned about her child missing her and for that reason, would want to have a means that the child could see her. I don't have Facebook or Instagram or Blog, but because my mother lives in another country, I use Skype with just her!

 

[gitana1]

Also, in that press conference when they get to the Q and A the very first question was about why PF wasn't there and the answer "you would have to ask him". The followup question by the same reporter was "Is he cooperating?" and the answer was "At this point, yes". If PF was lawyered up at that point I expect that the answer would have been "He has only spoken to us through his attorney" but we don't get that kind of answer from law enforcement until the second press conference when the police chief is asked if PF is still cooperating.

I don't know. I think he lawyered up immediately. Just my impression.

To me that's the kind of artful statement LE makes when a POI has made any kind of statement to them (e.g. "The last I heard from her was via this text. Here. You can see my phone.") And has maybe voluntarily given some evidence that his attorney knows they'd get anyhow, (so it makes the impression of cooperation), and LE is hoping the POI will actually sit down and answer detailed questions.

Clearly, he did not.

 

[Beamer15]

Except many don't travel with their electric brushes. I don't.

I don’t either. I leave the electric toothbrush at home and revert to the free ones that my dentist gives me.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

I’ve also read here for years, at least 4-5.

I signed up and posted on this case because -the likely suspect is using his right to remain silent (and if guilty at least is not a hypocrite)
-shared custody which I do with my child (and now I know better be more nosy when my ex asks me to keep our child during his custody time. BTW he has gone up to two weeks and does not contact our child (which annoys me but again he’s a grown man and I have no jurisdiction over him) (now if our child told me that she tried to reach him and no response for several days , I’d contact his relatives (not LE I’m not his next of kin or roommate or employer )
-vast majority of WS thinks he is guilty and not a lot of brainstorming of other possibilities was happening at first and if I were missing I’d appreciate all angles considered. (Plus cases like Jaycee Dugard, the Castro women, the curious case of Sherri Papini make me more open minded to statistical anomalies)

 

[gliving]

That is an excellent point. If a stranger/acquaintance abducted her, why the need to stall for more time? The only person the stall really benefits is PF because it gives him a reason not to worry about where she is.

jmo

It also makes sure her employer won't look into why she didn't report for work on Monday. Two entities who would likely show concern are now placated.

 

[Lhughessk]

Whoa, back up the truck. First, what the aunt had posted is quoted verbatim in the media and those articles and stories have been linked in these threads. So, don't make an accusation that I am breaking WS rules and relying on FB posts that can't be discussed because that is absolutely not the case at all.

The DailyMail story that quotes the aunt's post verbatim acknowledges that it had been deleted and that there was no explanation why it was deleted other than Kelsey's mother asked her to do so. More to the point, that entire section of that article was related to the status of the relationship.

All you are try tell me is that you personally give more weight to what certain individuals say and ignore the rest. None of that is an argument against whether there is a basis to question the relationship status. You have your opinion, I have mine.

Settle down, it’s a little strong to use the term “accusation”. We all struggle sometimes to know what the rules are and how to apply them. I was giving my opinion and my interpretation of how to apply them. You are more than welcome to believe differently.

But what we do have, in the first press conference, is both the police chief and CB answering in the affirmative when a reporter asked if the two are engaged.

 

[psudad]

Wouldn't call it defending him- just not presuming guilt from the very little facts available in the case. The fact that no one can confirm there even is a relationship is troubling and shows there might be more to the story than we are being led to believe.

 

[InvSmith]

This is a case of implausibilities:
1. KB goes shopping appears normal. She does not appear rushed or over dressed or over excited. All appearances indicate it is just a normal day.
2. Based on what is released to the public, this is the last confirmed sighting of KB.
3. KB does speak with her Mother on the same day of the sighting. This is the last independently confirmed discussion of KB.
4. All other information conflicts with known facts. PF indicates she is going on a trip but her cars are present and her items remain at home. PF indicates he receives a text while she is in Idaho but every indication shows she had no plans to leave. She never told her mother but asked for a receipe instead.
5. If KB was on this trip, why would she not alert family or law enforcement?
6. Does KB really appear to be someone that would text their employer informing them she is taking a week off? Well, it is way past a week.

 

[JEM1975]

I apologize if it came across as dismissive. Tone and context can very hard to discern in short written messages.

I meant "only" 55% killed by current and former partners to mean that, although the number is the highest cause of death statistically speaking, it wasn't the sole cause of death of murdered women, as it seems like we have been treating it. MOO

I completely understood what you meant and think you speak very eloquently and directly! I always appreciate your posts and the way you think Bill!

 

[gitana1]

I have family in rural Arkansas who can go weeks easily without really seeing another human and the vast land , if they decided to murder me I would never be found ...." She was last sighted heading out towards Huntsville " that would be under the caption and that would be IT .

Yeah but I think the context is traveling on highways and having to get gas or eat or sleep. If it's a well-travelled area how much would one particular person stand out?

 

[KathrynL]

Whoa, back up the truck. First, what the aunt had posted is quoted verbatim in the media and those articles and stories have been linked in these threads. So, don't make an accusation that I am breaking WS rules and relying on FB posts that can't be discussed because that is absolutely not the case at all.

The DailyMail story that quotes the aunt's post verbatim acknowledges that it had been deleted and that there was no explanation why it was deleted other than Kelsey's mother asked her to do so. More to the point, that entire section of that article was related to the status of the relationship.

All you are try tell me is that you personally give more weight to what certain individuals say and ignore the rest. None of that is an argument against whether there is a basis to question the relationship status. You have your opinion, I have mine.

On the official FB page, admin stated that the information about the status of the relationship did not come from KB, therefore they deleted the info. They didn't say where the info came from, but I have a pretty good idea.

 

[Mae’s Friend]

I’m new here too, and have tried to confine my comments to legal issues I might know something about. Seems to me 99% of what I’ve read here is thoughtful, shows concern for KB and not simply interest in the investigative puzzle, and genuine hope that a little girl’s mother might be ok.

 

[gitana1]

New to the site. Very interesting/baffling case! As someone who doesn't follow ongoing missing persons forums, it seems like the possibility of suicide doesnt get nearly as much attention as I would think it should. It's always tough to gauge where someone is at mentally and the only people (that I've seen) speakimg to her character are her family members. The same ones who seem to be clueless to the actual relationship KB had with her fiance. The text to work could be KB looking out for coworkers/boss she might care for by giving them a heads-up she won't be in the following week. Maybe she was buying herself time.

If my wife went missing, I'd immediately get a lawyer and follow their advice as well...I don't think it's all that strange at all.

Again it's all new to me, but thought I'd throw in my two cents. Really enjoy following everyone's posts on here.

Suicide is a possibility in various missing person's cases. It happens. We have seen that here.

What differs from those cases is zero indication of mental health issues (no matter how hard defenders of PF try to make that insinuation, just as the CW defenders tried to make that insinuation with Shanann Watts), the last known person to see the missing woman refusing to discuss his whereabouts during the critical period, and two highly professional, competent and experienced agencies clearly focusing on that same man.

So it's a possibility but one that is pretty dim at this point for me.

 

[jillianelaine]

And especially since Kelsey's profession deals with providing instructions, safety and deals with security, I'd be concerned as hell if that text did not include some instructions and questions or comments related to the childs safety and security. This is why I brought p Skype, this is why I'd be shocked if she did not ASK if he was able to watch the child for a week.