CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[heartgoesout]

Mine for Erin

Yes, mine for Erin. Are there mines in the area for Kelsey?

 

[BRRI]

I don't think it is known at this point who will be awarded permanent custody, although when I first read the posts about it after his arrest, that was the impression I got too.
As I understand, there will be a hearing in order to decide this, or at least for temporary custody.
There are many things to consider when deciding where to place the child permanently. If the child has a strong bond with the person who has been the primary caretaker, they will usually place her there. But these are unusual circumstances, so it's hard to tell. Also the child's age may be taken into account. She may easily adapt to change, and may bond quickly with Kelseys family during the period of time they will be caring for her. How long that will be we don't know.
We've had an attorney discuss this, Gitana 1, if you can find her comments from last night.
As far as PF not being the father, we have no indication of this, and I'm assuming his name is on the birth certificate. But her family can always request a paternity test. They can also request a psychological. There are lots of things to consider, including the environment, family dynamics of each family, religion, age, health, and finances. It will be interesting to see what develops. I hope her family gets custody. Do we know if Kelseys mom and dad are together? I haven't heard anything about her father. Jmo

Her dad is on the title of the house with her mom, along with primary addresses being the same, so I’d say they are likely together.

 

[NanZDrew]

Who ever said she wanted to purchase a home with PF? Her finances seemed fine. I don't know why everyone is insisting he was in any way taking care of her. She bought her place and her cars. She had a good job. He was the one with money issues IMO.

I agree. I think he was totally living off of his mother.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you, that was what I thought. I wonder what court record The Denver Post is referring to in which they confirm Berreth's DOD as the 22nd...

I saw that too and went back to read all the motions again. I don't see any mention of the 22nd in any of them, so I don't know. Anyone else?

Possible evidence in Kelsey Berreth investigation found in Idaho
A court document available online indicated Berreth was killed on Thanksgiving Day.

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

 

[SoVeryMe]

I know know next to monothi about horses, but I heard people bury them where they drop. (Indicating he perhaps shot it)
He probably had equipment to move them.

Moo

I have a few horses die, we’ve buried them where they passed with the exception of one who passed in the barn. I had someone move him for me but didn’t stick around to see how he did it. I’m sure he was as careful as he could be but it definitely wasn’t an easy task.

I would guess some people even drag them to their burial site. My horses are like my family so I’m pretty finicky about how they were handled even after death. I can’t speak for others.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

(Indeed, it was a scam and how sad and scary so many people inquired about such services! spoiler alert, the hit man actually alerted press or LE iirc about victims that were inquired about and their lives were potentially saved, additionally (spoiler alert), there was a “good guy” hacker who didn’t really know the hit man was a scam si we wise trying to hack his service and alerting LE as well, something like that...)

(Furthermore, it was quite a brilliant scheme I might add—-who is really going to call the cops and say “Um, yeah hi, I paid this guy to kill my wife but he didn’t do it...”)

Brilliant until the solicitor hires another hitman to take care of the scam hitman.

 

[BRRI]

Brilliant until the solicitor hires another hitman to take care of the scam hitman.

True except on dark web, things are very hard to track and anonymous. I’d bet the money is paid to an off shore account somewhere

 

[Kadie]

I don't think there is much question that PF is the father. He must be listed on the birth certificate or he wouldn't have had the child the last several weeks. I don't think it is a given at all that KB's family will get custody immediately. I know that police chief indicated that in the press conference but that was jumping the gun. Its not up to law enforcement. The district court will appoint a guardian next week and a long process will begin. I will say that the fact that the chief said that KB's family will get custody does tell me that there is some suspicion that PF's mother has some involvement with KB's disappearance. Otherwise, she would be the logical one to have custody at least in the short term.

It's a whole new ball game when CPS/DHHS and the Probate Court gets involved. If K is now a temporary Court ward, DHHS will make recommendations to the Judge, who will make the final decisions on custody, placement and services for this child. We should be able to learn more at the Court hearing. I'm curious if PF is the legal father and if any custody and visitation had been established with the Court.

 

[The Farm]

I have a few horses die, we’ve buried them where they passed with the exception of one who passed in the barn. I had someone move him for me but didn’t stick around to see how he did it. I’m sure he was as careful as he could be but it definitely wasn’t an easy task.

I would guess some people even drag them to their burial site. My horses are like my family so I’m pretty finicky about how they were handled even after death. I can’t speak for others.

Ugh nothing worse than when they pass in the barn. I have seen barns having to be partially taken apart to get them out, either that or cut them up which I want to hurl as I write this.
Also if you can bury on your property and the horse is scheduled to be euthanized the hole is already dug and they are put down right there.
Same here SoVeryMe, they are my family and I lose it when the end is near as with any of my animals but the joy they bring me far outweighs that proverbial end.

 

[Sabrina1011]

I saw that too and went back to read all the motions again. I don't see any mention of the 22nd in any of them, so I don't know. Anyone else?

Possible evidence in Kelsey Berreth investigation found in Idaho
A court document available online indicated Berreth was killed on Thanksgiving Day.

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Thank you PommyMommy for the link to the court documents. I spent a lot of time using the link to CW docs. I put the shortcut on my iPad. You made my day....​

 

[Deleted member 155000]

It's a whole new ball game when CPS/DHHS and the Probate Court gets involved. If K is now a temporary Court ward, DHHS will make recommendations to the Judge, who will make the final decisions on custody, placement and services for this child. We should be able to learn more at the Court hearing. I'm curious if PF is the legal father and if any custody and visitation had been established with the Court.

The previous custody arrangement hasn’t been made public.

When they announced the baby as safe, after PF’s arrests, there were statements about getting the baby to Kelsey’s family. But we don’t know if this implies visitation, temporary custody, or something else.

We know there is an upcoming custody hearing.

I suspect that since Kelsey’s disappearance, PF has completed a paternity test, but we don’t know this either.

 

[NanZDrew]

It's a whole new ball game when CPS/DHHS and the Probate Court gets involved. If K is now a temporary Court ward, DHHS will make recommendations to the Judge, who will make the final decisions on custody, placement and services for this child. We should be able to learn more at the Court hearing. I'm curious if PF is the legal father and if any custody and visitation had been established with the Court.

If he is on the birth certificate, he is the legal father. They wouldn't have a custody/visitation schedule if they haven't previously been to court and there are no records of that. Looks like they were just working it out between themselves.

 

[SandyQLS]

I am suspecting PF may have shared a common interest of silencing KB with someone who lived in Idaho. I am probably alone in thinking her death and nothing to do with domestic issues.

I don't think it would be dog fighting JMO. But someone posted here that the rodeo circuit has a lot of drug use. It's possible, perhaps not probable. Wouldn't the SW at the ranchette have uncovered evidence of other illegal activity?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Good question! Maybe she enjoyed having the intellectual/emotional "upper hand" in the relationship. Professionally she was a trainer, a leader per se. Maybe this extended into her personal life as well. She may have wanted someone to "fix".

IMO He tricked her. These types are very good at deception, luring someone in, often times until it's too late to get out alive.
Sadly.

 

[Thinker22]

Wild speculation here:

I wonder if Kelsey witnessed any inappropriate behavior/discipline by PF towards the baby, or maybe confronted him about bruising or other marks. Threatening to report him to the police over such things could trigger a guy with a short fuse to do some dramatic things.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes and I was thinking as I woke up...I wonder if the drywall they took (if they took it) was up higher where PF missed overlapping the old paint and new paint

If he had painted anywhere in the Townhouse, wouldn't LE or her family have been able to smell fresh paint when they did the wellness check?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

If he had painted anywhere in the Townhouse, wouldn't LE or her family have been able to smell fresh paint when they did the wellness check?

The wellness check happened around ten days after she disappeared...so only maybe. They make paint that has low to no scent now too.

 

[Dexxie8]

Hi Everyone! New member here. This case is really interesting. Shocked about the solicitation charge
Can’t wait to see what unfolds as this case heats up.
Unless PF is a complete idiot, I highly doubt he had any evidence in the trash that was taken to the landfill. I mean you would think he would think people are watching me, right?

 

[CuriousCricket]

Keen eye. The solicitation charge tipped the scale for me. With no witnesses in Colorado coming forward to say anything besides, "Ive seen them exchange the kid", I was confident they had not been a couple for a very long time. And for that reason, I thought they lacked the emotional investment necessary for the heated argument gone awry. I also did not believe custody issues were at stake. I don't think they planned on having a kid and for very different reasons, full time custody was not a viable option . Still, I was stumped. He appeared guilty, but what was the motive? When they announced the solicitation charge, I questioned why if he had the ability to kill her himself, hire someone and risk exposure--unless that second person knew him well and also had something to gain by silencing her. And I began to see PF in a new light. A ****! It was said he trained dogs so I pondered whether he was involved in a dog-fighting ring. Or maybe involved with drugs. Something to earn some quick bucks. And maybe she knew too much. When all the information flowed in for the arrest, the timing and the charges led me to believe someone was talking. The person he solicited seemed like the only likely candidate. I hope that thoroughly answers your question!

Very nice -- and thorough. Thank you. Makes sense, as well. It's so good to see the way so many different minds work. But logical and smart. Keen eye is right.

I was not considering that the relationship being over for awhile would mean that he was not likely to have killed her in heat.

Very interesting.

Now, here's another question. If he was not emotionally involved with the baby and KB any longer, is it possible he and/or his mother was/were paid by KB for their childcare while she worked those long hours?

 

[Nudgee]

I posted this a few days ago when the arrest was made ( can't bring it forward from thread #13 so hope copy and pasting works)..... anyone else interested/concerned about the newspaper article where the neighbor now says there were two other vehicles there on Thanksgiving Day which prompted LE to investigate further?? I am unclear exactly where those vehicles were parked, but the fact PF's truck was parked in another direction, blocking them, concerns me. I just wonder if PF told KB that he has friends/family coming over to her house on Thanksgiving morning to meet him while he picked up their daughter, which caused her to go to the Safeway and make the cinnamon rolls. In other words, unexpected guests! I think most of us would be prepared for Thanksgiving morning if we expected guests. And then asking her mother for a recipe (which we do not know what that recipe was).

As for @MassGuy and his TB Super Bowl rings avitar.... I'm a die hard Eagles fan.... I'll leave it there (LOL)



Emi said: ↑
Patrick Frazee arrested, charged with first-degree murder
It’s not clear at this time who now has custody of their 1-year-old daughter, Kaylee.
Could he have hired someone to kill KB, at her home, then went over to get the baby after he knew they had killed her. When I read through the article linked above, the additional cars mentioned by the neighbor doesn't sit well. Anybody else read it the same way I do?? (and the rolls left on the counter has always been strange to me). Without any initial signs of forced entry she may have known the killer/s.

"Investigators then zeroed in on searching Berreth’s home days after News 5 also talked with one of Berreth’s neighbors on Monday. That neighbor said she had previously seen two red pickup trucks at Berreth’s home on Thanksgiving Day, when Frazee said he picked up the couple’s daughter.

Berreth’s uncle, Ed Stanfill, said Berreth owns a red truck. Frazee’s truck, which was seized in the search over the weekend, was also red. The neighbor’s account of the events also fits Frazee’s timeline about when he last saw his fiancé.

“I looked up there, and there was both red pickups there Thanksgiving Day. And that was from 12:30 [p.m.] to 1 p.m.,” the neighbor said. “The other two cars were parked with the vehicles facing the apartment, but his was parked sideways behind them.” "

My thoughts and prayers go out to her family.