CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

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BBM. But he did not live in a remote location, did he? I took it that he lived on the outskirt of town on 35 acres.
Do we know if he had a current hunting license ? Or are they required in CO for a resident ? If he has a hunting license has he used any of the tags ? Did he keep a skull for mount ? If so the info where the animal was taken will be on the tag. Might be worth a look see . Elk season for example:
 
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Yet another woman, another mother, murdered that we are discussing here. Over and over again.

Over and over again.

Perhaps there's something proactive we could put forth.

Something, somewhere, where women or friends could reach out.

Instead of figuring all of this **it out after.

National Abuse Hotline https://www.thehotline.org/

Excellent resource.

https://www.whengeorgiasmiled.org/


Be safe and reach out.

Night.
 
I don’t think baby K was planned, if baby 2 was on its way it was not planned either. IMO

I don’t feel full custody was his motive and I don’t believe KB was planning to move back to Idaho (and if she did , he could simply go to court and easily prevent her from taking baby K with her to Idaho...or anywhere outside a a reasonable distance from his residence.)

So what’s his motive ?

We'd all like to know his motive, but even if we find out, I doubt it will make an sesnse to any of us.
 
Exactly. The "breakup" feeds into the narrative that she took off, that possibly she was distraught, or going to cry in Grandma's arms.
Hmmm. Where have we heard that story before?...

Hard to travel anywhere without your car.

Gotta give him credit for remembering to remove her purse and phone from the house though.

That still won’t save him from a life sentence.
 
FWIW, I have a weird theory, I have been surprised that bodies of people who have been killed, seem to turn up. Who would have ever expected Laci Peterson's body to be found? That was really amazing.

And Lori Hackett's body was discovered after months of looking.

I don't know where KB is, or if she will be found...there is a lot of open space. But maybe something will happen...
 
We'd all like to know his motive, but even if we find out, I doubt it will make an sesnse to any of us.
I’ve mentioned this before, but the Wagner family likely killed 8 people for the custody of a young child.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the motive was the same here.
 
Florissant seems to not really have a central residential area; it looks like a handful of businesses around one or two main intersections, with the residents all scattered. And yes, very close behind PF's property is National Forest land.

And -- hiya @BuySellTrade , I'm former FS too, R5 even. I only did half a career, between 1990 and 2003 so we wouldn't have overlapped. Besides, I'm an "ologist", not a forester. Anyway, hi!

Happy holidays Auntie Cipation!

You were in a much different USFS. Note I was an employee from 1969 to 1985 and resigned in my early 30s during Reagan. I'd like to communicate more if you would message me.

Think you much understand then about the different perception of a local and one that resides and makes their living from what appears vast emptiness of the Federal lands of the western USA. My impression is that a local guy who spent his life there and was engaged in outdoor pursuits would be was more familiar with the roads and forests than understood by an urban person.

Still I am not certain PF did a body dump on public lands. I'm very open minded about this. But do think PK likely knew where people cut Christmas trees and where he would be far less likely to be observed if he did do a body dump.
 
You're right that his place isn't super remote, and you're also right that his place isn't a ranch (though not because of the size -- lots of ranchers near me have their winter feedlot on not much more than 35 acres, but he has no feed setup at all for any number of animals above just a few).

But I was responding to you responding to a post about the forest lands and how rural folks know their nearby forests well -- the roads, the stands of trees, where they are/aren't likely to run into other people, etc. In terms of possibly having gone for a tree, and in terms of possibly having dumped a body. In that sense PF is effectively right up against National Forest land and probably is as familiar with it as was described. IMO.

What you describe is precisely what I was trying to relate. In my home turf I can talk to old friends and we can literally talk about very specific places in the middle of no where that few folks would even perceive to the detail. The difference in perception is wide.
 
FWIW, I have a weird theory, I have been surprised that bodies of people who have been killed, seem to turn up. Who would have ever expected Laci Peterson's body to be found? That was really amazing.

And Lori Hackett's body was discovered after months of looking.

I don't know where KB is, or if she will be found...there is a lot of open space. But maybe something will happen...
Laci was only found thanks to a key error made by Scott Peterson.

He tied her limbs to the cinderblocks, instead of tying her body itself.

The limbs tend to break away first, which is what released her from her watery grave.

If PF made a similar mistake, like burying her in a shallow grave, or dumping her above ground, then there’s a reasonable chance she will be found.

I still think that her best bet of being found, is cell phone location tracking (of the person who dumped her), or someone who talks.

Her family deserves to give her a proper burial, so I hope she’s found soon.

It’s not necessary to a successful prosecution though.

Fourtunately.
 
I am very familiar with vast, unoccupied land. I am not sure that he is, living on a land with no grazing but still being a self proclaimed "cowboy". I think that he is a show pony.
I don't think he is even good enough to be a show pony. I think he is all pony and NO show. That would make him a donkey.
 
We initially did not know where or when Kelsey was murdered, so the theory that Kelsey could have been murdered while cutting a Christmas tree made sense. Today we know that she was most likely murdered at her home shortly after noon on November 22, coinciding with the time that the neighbor saw the red truck parked at her house.

I doubt that a tree cutting place is a likely hiding spot for a body just before Christmas. I also think it's unlikely that he drove far with a body in his truck, probably less than 20 miles. The question I have is whether he moved the body twice, perhaps once to the acreage and then with the extra week to cover his tracks, perhaps it was moved again.
 
I posted in the last thread about my experience of "Christmas tree" patrol when I worked for the USFS. Before university and during university I worked as a Forest Tech for the USFS and then was a Forester post graduation. My last position was a District Silviculturist in charge of reforestation, stand improvement, and cutting prescriptions for timber sales. This occurred between 1969 and 1985 but I am retired now on a NF inholding and the local USFS still sells permits and provides maps to folks wanting to get trees. Time has past and this was in California not Colorad0 so specifics vary now.

Repeating myself, Christmas tree patrol was a fun thing and separate on a volunteer basis from one's regular job plus there was overtime as long days and on weekends. That time of year staffing is low so it was mostly the year round professional employees. I had similar experiences on two different ranger districts. The USFS sells Christmas tree permits. One needs to have a permit visibly attached to trees cut. They cost now I think $20.

"Civilians" were given maps that had areas excluded for cutting and areas suggested or even designed for cutting. Part of this is that there are different tree species. For example red fir and noble fir are what are known as "silver tips" on the Christmas tree lot. The silvertips grew in specific areas and at higher elevations. Locals but even more so folks from the urbanized area 80 miles away made the outings (often the areas were popular for camping, hiking, hunting, fishing other times of the year and had good all weather roads). Much of the commercial timber harvest was clear cuts so there were plantations of Christmas tree sized trees. Suitable plantations were shown on the maps and trees within the plantations marked as non-cut trees. All other trees were fair game for those with tree permits. Being higher elevation often the roads were plowed of snow and folks were directed toward areas where they were less likely to have problems like getting stuck. In general plantations were off limits for cutting unless designated. There were also Douglas-fir plantations designated for cutting but the DF and other species not desired like the silvertips. Some Douglas-fir plantations that had excess trees for a commercial crop were "pre-commercially thinned". Contracts were let for plantations thought to have good Christmas tree potential where the contractor had "salvage rights" and could remove cut trees suitable for sale. This reduced the cost of thinning or even brought in some revenue but wild DF are thinner in foliage than the manicured and grown for Christmas trees that are most commonly sold. Also areas were set up for Boy Scouts to cut and raise money for their needs.

To Christmas tree patrol was mostly to go to near the silvertip and other areas where people knew they could cut. We had maps and permits we could issue on the spot. So the job was fun and merry and we got to interact and be a presence with the public, often families having a quality experience. In the silvertip areas there would be check points going in (recall often in snow or at least winter weather) where we said hi to everyone and counted vehicles. Then was counted vehicles coming out and if vehicles did not come out we would cruise around and get folks out that were stuck, public safety. We were a lurking presence in any case to make sure damage wasn't done, people had permits, and public safety. Also there were people referred to as "Christmas tree poachers" cutting illegally without regard to damage for their own profit. It did no happen much if there were "rangers" roaming about. If we saw evidence, LE would act and we did not confront. I remember this well because it was fun. There were times we decorated our trucks and had coffee and hot chocolate for the public. We often got cookies.

So it did not seem logical to dispose of a body on Fed lands where there are "rangers" lurking and public cutting. Seems reasonable that one looking to dump would go away from Christmas tree areas. An outdoorsy local like say PF would know areas to get good Christmas trees but also areas where the roads were still decent but people scarce during the holidays. Cattle grazing areas are mostly in pine forests and not in the more alpine forests where prime Christmas trees reside.

Woodland Park is surrounded by National Forest. The town itself is mostly forested. The tree cutting area is northeast on Rampart Range and would have been busy. Thousands of people from Colorado Springs go up there, especially Thanksgiving weekend. That being said, there's a lot of public property in every direction and a lot of forest service roads crisscrossing the area. It would be very easy to go out to a place he knew in the dead of night and not be seen by anyone. There are only 1-2 rangers assigned to the Pikes Peak Ranger district, and they have to cover hundreds of square miles. It would be more likely for a local to see someone than a ranger. No grazing on public lands (through leases) is allowed past mid-October. It's summer only.
 
We initially did not know where or when Kelsey was murdered, so the theory that Kelsey could have been murdered while cutting a Christmas tree made sense. Today we know that she was most likely murdered at her home shortly after noon on November 22, coinciding with the time that the neighbor saw the red truck parked at her house.

I doubt that a tree cutting place is a likely hiding spot for a body just before Christmas. I also think it's unlikely that he drove far with a body in his truck, probably less than 20 miles. The question I have is whether he moved the body twice, perhaps once to the acreage and then with the extra week to cover his tracks, perhaps it was moved again.
Very possible!
 
Woodland Park is surrounded by National Forest. The town itself is mostly forested. The tree cutting area is northeast on Rampart Range and would have been busy. Thousands of people from Colorado Springs go up there, especially Thanksgiving weekend. That being said, there's a lot of public property in every direction and a lot of forest service roads crisscrossing the area. It would be very easy to go out to a place he knew in the dead of night and not be seen by anyone. There are only 1-2 rangers assigned to the Pikes Peak Ranger district, and they have to cover hundreds of square miles. It would be more likely for a local to see someone than a ranger. No grazing on public lands (through leases) is allowed past mid-October. It's summer only.
What's the snow cover like now?
 
We initially did not know where or when Kelsey was murdered, so the theory that Kelsey could have been murdered while cutting a Christmas tree made sense. Today we know that she was most likely murdered at her home shortly after noon on November 22, coinciding with the time that the neighbor saw the red truck parked at her house.

I doubt that a tree cutting place is a likely hiding spot for a body just before Christmas. I also think it's unlikely that he drove far with a body in his truck, probably less than 20 miles. The question I have is whether he moved the body twice, perhaps once to the acreage and then with the extra week to cover his tracks, perhaps it was moved again.
That jibes with my thinking here.

Most killers want to get rid of a body right away, and certainly don’t like to hold on to one for days.

They also don’t like to travel long distances with a body.

So I do think it’s more likely that she is close to home.

This guy did have the benefit of time, and the means to move a body though.

That ping shows that he, or someone else, traveled to Idaho at some point. It’s not out of the question that Kelsey’s body also made the trip.

But for that to happen, he would have had to have taken the body to one location, and then moved it a second time to take it towards Idaho.

He may have buried her once, and then dug her up again.
 
Very possible!

Someone took a huge risk by sending the texts on November 25. If the murder was completely hidden by that date, there was no reason to send the texts. The fact that the texts were sent suggests that more time was needed to cover his tracks.

Is there a burn pit or burning barrel on the acreage? That's one way to eliminate a body.
 
That jibes with my thinking here.

Most killers want to get rid of a body right away, and certainly don’t like to hold on to one for days.

They also don’t like to travel long distances with a body.

So I do think it’s more likely that she is close to home.

This guy did have the benefit of time, and the means to move a body though.

That ping shows that he, or someone else, traveled to Idaho at some point. It’s not out of the question that Kelsey’s body also made the trip.

But for that to happen, he would have had to have taken the body to one location, and then moved it a second time to take it towards Idaho.

He may have buried her once, and then dug her up again.

Either he was in Idaho on November 25 (should be easy to figure out), or he has an accomplice. Evidence was found after search warrants were executed in Idaho just a few days ago, so police probably have the answer.

I doubt that her body is in Idaho. I too think that she is close to home, not necessarily buried.
 
That jibes with my thinking here.

Most killers want to get rid of a body right away, and certainly don’t like to hold on to one for days.

They also don’t like to travel long distances with a body.

So I do think it’s more likely that she is close to home.

This guy did have the benefit of time, and the means to move a body though.

That ping shows that he, or someone else, traveled to Idaho at some point. It’s not out of the question that Kelsey’s body also made the trip.

But for that to happen, he would have had to have taken the body to one location, and then moved it a second time to take it towards Idaho.

He may have buried her once, and then dug her up again.
That's a really disgusting thought!
 
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