CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

She is close to the "ranch".
As long as he was free, he'd have to be able to monitor her remains , body of water or grave to reassure him that he was smarter than the FBI.
WHERE did he go as a young boy? Where's his dad, grandaddy or uncle? Where did they live?
Moo

My worry is she's at a dump. Regardless, it feels like she's a needle in a haystack. It's terrible.

 

[jillianelaine]

I want them to find kb’s body. Makes me so sad to know she’s still out there somewhere. My guess is it’s close - 30 miles outside of his town, though I'm very familiar with the area and they'll need him to talk. PF doesn't seem too intelligent so I don't think he put much thought behind where he put her as some are suggesting.

The neighbor never heard any KB struggle on thanksgiving (really?!) Neighbor was home during the time she saw pf truck at the condo for 30 min, correct? And no witness to him loading up his truck? hmm.

My hunch is that KB did not have any plans to move from the area or switch jobs; it’s been stated that she came from a religious family, that she may have been reserved, so she likely was really trying to make it work and wait for him and marriage. Do we know if KB had tried to live at the ranch with he and his mother when she first moved to CO? I think PF deceived KB from the very beginning about plans to move out together and grow a life together. He may have felt a lot of inadequacy and anger about her reaction to that. And then she switched from being a barista to having a much bigger job - something that may have caught he and his mother off guard. And then she got pregnant and PF and his mother found themselves raising/caring for a baby in a non-traditional set-up. I'm sure they must've felt resentment over that and likely felt out of control - especially if his mom was pressuring him to just write this one off. I don't think this story went the way PF had wanted it to. All just thoughts. Correct me if too much speculation.

I was led to believe that the neighbor left her home while his truck was parked. That 30 minute time frame was an estimation of the time frame in which she saw it. She was on her way to a Thanksgiving Day celebration.

 

[jillianelaine]

I never understood how LE concluded her death occurred ON Thursday, and not Friday. IMO, he must have told someone what he did. I realize that maybe he had an alibi. If he was nursing his time with an out of town visitor, if he had spent Thanksgiving and the rest of the holiday weekend in the same household as that person, perhaps it helped to establish a timeline.

 

[MassGuy]

She is close to the "ranch".
As long as he was free, he'd have to be able to monitor her remains , body of water or grave to reassure him that he was smarter than the FBI.
WHERE did he go as a young boy? Where's his dad, grandaddy or uncle? Where did they live?
Moo

That’s the problem, there are so many familiar places at which he could have dumped her body.

He probably knows that whole area like the back of his hand.

If we are to assume that those text messages and ping were an intentional effort to misdirect authorities, which I don’t think is a leap, then it stands to reason that she’s nowhere near Idaho.

Why direct law enforcement to the place you put her?

So she may be nearby, but they’ll still have to get very lucky to find her.

Fortunately, they don’t need her body to prove murder.

But for the sake of her parents though, we all hope they recover her.

 

[jillianelaine]

She is close to the "ranch".
As long as he was free, he'd have to be able to monitor her remains , body of water or grave to reassure him that he was smarter than the FBI.
WHERE did he go as a young boy? Where's his dad, grandaddy or uncle? Where did they live?
Moo

I'm kind of thinking this same thing about relatives/grandparents land. IMO his text may have said she was visiting a relative... not that the words were consciously chosen, but might the idea of a "relative" have been on his brain. Seems it may have been far easier for that text to be more general to read she was "visiting a friend"

 

[Charlot123]

I'm feeling something similar to you. He didn't want to marry her. Maybe he had a new woman and just wanted out. I don't know. But I do think there was deception about who he was and his intentions. And it came to a head for him.

It is interesting that in all annihilation situations, there are feelings involved. SP, allegedly, "loved" AF. CW loved NK. And I think that either PF was genuinely attached to his child.

But all these guys, so different (because you can't compare gregarious SP with odd CW or this guy, from whom the most we heard was "get off my property"), have one major flaw. They seemingly don't understand that one just can't replace people and go on.

SP didn't like how Laci's body changed during pregnancy, he did not want kids, so he invited AF to go to him for vasectomy. Like, "I shall kill my pregnant wife, and live with this new woman and her kid, and have no kids of my own".

CW has a family, and the kids he loves, but he fell out of love with SW, and his new flame wants own kids, and - just like this! - let's kill the old ones and get the new ones with the new woman.

(He never asks himself, what if the new flame will be unable to have kids, or the new kids will have issues, be less than perfect. Then what? Kill them, too?)

Now I don't know the exact details of PF's life. People think there is another woman, but even if so, I won't be surprised if this is not even a passionate love. For him, it matters to 100% own the kid.

But even the simplest thing - how would it be for the child to grow up without the mother, or with a stepmother - doesn't enter his head? (He should understand the concept of motherhood, he is attached to own mother). How come he doesn't care about his child?

 

[jillianelaine]

That’s the problem, there are so many familiar places at which he could have dumped her body.

He probably knows that whole area like the back of his hand.

If we are to assume that those text messages and ping were an intentional effort to misdirect authorities, which I don’t think is a leap, then it stands to reason that she’s nowhere near Idaho.

Why direct law enforcement to the place you put her?

So she may be nearby, but they’ll still have to get very lucky to find her.

Fortunately, they don’t need her body to prove murder.

But for the sake of her parents, we all hope they recover her.

Also, he solicited someone to kill her. I don't think it was merely to cover the evidence. If so, why did he do it in her home! Therefore, IMO, he wanted to remove himself from the situation for other reasons too! That he wanted as little involvement as possible both in the death, and disposal. That he wanted to rid the body asap.

 

[gitana1]

It is interesting that in all annihilation situations, there are feelings involved. SP, allegedly, "loved" AF. CW loved NK. And I think that either PF was genuinely attached to his child.

But all these guys, so different (because you can't compare gregarious SP with odd CW or this guy, from whom the most we heard was "get off my property"), have one major flaw. They seemingly don't understand that one just can't replace people and go on.

SP didn't like how Laci's body changed during pregnancy, he did not want kids, so he invited AF to go to him for vasectomy. Like, "I shall kill my pregnant wife, and live with this new woman and her kid, and have no kids of my own".

CW has a family, and the kids he loves, but he fell out of love with SW, and his new flame wants own kids, and - just like this! - let's kill the old ones and get the new ones with the new woman.

(He never asks himself, what if the new flame will be unable to have kids, or the new kids will have issues, be less than perfect. Then what? Kill them, too?)

Now I don't know the exact details of PF's life. People think there is another woman, but even if so, I won't be surprised if this is not even a passionate love. For him, it matters to 100% own the kid.

But even the simplest thing - how would it be for the child to grow up without the mother, or with a stepmother - doesn't enter his head? (He should understand the concept of motherhood, he is attached to own mother). How come he doesn't care about his child?

They are all different. And speaking of SP it's so odd that he was so dismayed by the thought of being trapped by his own offspring yet willingly dated a woman with a child. A truly single mother who it seemed had full time care of her kid.

But SP feels like the opposite of PF - disgusted by the thought of having a child he created on this earth. I think he felt the baby was parasitically trapping him.

But one other thing that may link them all is some sort of familial enmeshment or serious dysfunction. CW and SP were similar in their narcissistic panic about being unmasked and found to be imperfect. PF is a different breed. He seems to enjoy having people think he's a sinister creep.

However, his situation living at his mom's despite having a baby and fiancée right down the street, smack of some sort of enmeshment or dependency to me.

It will be interesting to see how his family acts as this case goes along.

 

[jillianelaine]

I wonder if having "narrowed the search area" meant having ruled out Idaho as a possibility.

I wonder if having "narrowed the search area" indicated a witness who had come forward and testified that he/she had spent Thanksgiving Afternoon through Sunday morning together with him.

 

[jillianelaine]

I wonder if having "narrowed the search area" indicated a witness who had come forward and testified that he/she had spent Thanksgiving Afternoon through Sunday morning together with him.

I wonder if having "narrowed the search area" indicated a witness who indicated information of a more general nature like, "He said he disposed of her on a relatives property".

 

[jillianelaine]

I wonder what the lack of LE presence( in terms of witness accounts of search efforts) is indicative of. IMO the searches wouldn't be postponed because of the holiday.

 

[jillianelaine]

I wonder if PF is capable of having a serious relationship with any woman. Or if the price of cattle will always come into play?

 

[zecats]

<modsnipped quoted post and response>

There are always other threads to peruse and comment on, however. WS is contagious, but so interesting as well.

What can I (we) say. Hopefully we are helping in some way to find people, solve crimes, support family. And it is such a supportive place to chat with those of like minds.

Happy New Year all. May justice be served, may Kelsey be found and may Little K remain with CB.

 

[jillianelaine]

I wonder how they narrowed down the time of death to Thanksgiving Day. Let's assume that CB's words may have been concocted (for good reason) not to hinder, and perhaps enhance the investigation.

Did CB know that KB intended on preparing a recipe, a recipe that went unmade.?
Did CB know that KB had baked the cinnamon rolls to take to someone's home. A holiday gift for a neighbor?
Did CB know they had plans to decorate her home that day? And their were no decorations?
Were CB and KB scheduled to speak that particular evening?

 

[zecats]

It's getting bizarre in here.

So nothing new, folks? We've got a hearing Monday but nothing came out from Idaho yet, I take it?

I've been searching and re-searching. Nothing but old news...sometimes disguised as new news.

 

[jillianelaine]

Was it stated that on several occasions PF brought the kid along to his work sites?
I wonder if his mother played much of a role in the child care functions?

 

[zecats]

I'm feeling something similar to you. He didn't want to marry her. Maybe he had a new woman and just wanted out. I don't know. But I do think there was deception about who he was and his intentions. And it came to a head for him.

Was she employed as a pilot while she was pregnant? At first, when she moved there, I've read she worked as a barista. That would be a safer (understatement) job for a pregnant woman. Maybe the pilot job and the distance she traveled, plus the sense of her job being more significant, more financially lucrative, etc, put a strain on their relationship. Something he couldn't handle do to his insecurities. He finally snapped
All jmo questioning, of course

 

[jillianelaine]

To the family and friends of KB, there are so many questions and so few answers but trust your hearts in your God and know that all of us here have been touched by her story and can all become better and wiser people through her legacy. I like to think that we all now carry a little Kelsey in our hearts. Warm regards.

 

[zecats]

She is close to the "ranch".
As long as he was free, he'd have to be able to monitor her remains , body of water or grave to reassure him that he was smarter than the FBI.
WHERE did he go as a young boy? Where's his dad, grandaddy or uncle? Where did they live?
Moo

Or drive up one of those steep mountain roads and toss her over. Somewhere hikers wouldn't even discover anything. Pikes Peak access road is very close to Woodland Park, for example. In 1992, a suicidal man drove his pickup truck off Pike's Peak and it landed in an area called "The Bottomless Pit" and even though it was witnessed, it was extremely difficult to find even the truck. Probably because it was witnessed, it was eventually found. In this case though, perhaps a more secure place in the mind of PF is hiding her body somewhere, and close.....in the water, buried, in a bin...I do agree he's going to have to tell where in order for her to be found. jmo

 

[Charlot123]

They are all different. And speaking of SP it's so odd that he was so dismayed by the thought of being trapped by his own offspring yet willingly dated a woman with a child. A truly single mother who it seemed had full time care of her kid.

But SP feels like the opposite of PF - disgusted by the thought of having a child he created on this earth. I think he felt the baby was parasitically trapping him.

But one other thing that may link them all is some sort of familial enmeshment or serious dysfunction. CW and SP were similar in their narcissistic panic about being unmasked and found to be imperfect. PF is a different breed. He seems to enjoy having people think he's a sinister creep.

However, his situation living at his mom's despite having a baby and fiancée right down the street, smack of some sort of enmeshment or dependency to me.

It will be interesting to see how his family acts as this case goes along.

SP looks the most normal, but I wonder if there is deep-seated psychosis, the true fear of begeting a child, and if this, in fact, drives killing pregnant Laci. (In old mythology, myriads of sons - gods, titans, heroes - offed their fathers, after these fathers tried to escape having sons, but I doubt SP was into mythology. Perhaps he knew that deep inside, he was evil, and did not want to pass on own genes? We shall never know).

PF is the opposite, throwing out the mother as the empty, wasted, shell after she has created the child, his child.

PF’s enmeshment is extreme. I wonder how he will come across when he ends up being alone for a long time. Will he get depressed, happy because he is free, or suck up to another person to avoid loneliness?