Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[MistyWaters]

Toronto homicide squad to be overhauled under new leader after record-breaking year of killings

Published December 31, 2018 Updated 10 minutes ago
New Toronto police homicide squad leader revamping unit, calls 2019 ‘decision-making year’


In July, Idsinga became the acting head of the homicide squad and began planning his transformation of the team.

“We will have a lot of new faces and a lot of movement within the squad,” he says, noting six detectives have already been brought to help alleviate the workload of the unit’s 48 detectives."

Idsinga is also starting a video analysis unit to help ease the squad’s workload.

“The nature of homicide work in 2018 involves an awful lot of video surveillance,” he says. “To properly extract that video surveillance, to properly analyze that surveillance, to make it presentable for court, it’s a lot of work and is labour intensive.”


"Another big case that has dogged the squad is the unsolved late 2017 murders of billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman.

The family has blasted the force for numerous alleged errors and lapses, and hired its own team of former homicide detectives, Ontario’s former chief pathologist and forensic experts to perform a separate private probe. The family recently announced a $10-million reward for information that would solve the case and proposed a “public-private partnership” with police where the shadow team would work alongside the force.

Idsinga called the proposal “interesting” but said it would involve onerous restrictions. He welcomed any tips and information but wouldn’t go for a situation where police would have to share information with the family’s team."

This ought to leave a few people who are suspects of unsolved homicides wondering if they’re being featured as a star performer for TPS.

...”The nature of homicide work in 2018 involves an awful lot of video surveillance,” he says. “To properly extract that video surveillance, to properly analyze that surveillance, to make it presentable for court, it’s a lot of work and is labour intensive.”

 

[JayFriend]

I don't know if this has been posted since I haven't had any notificatins of new poats for a while.
Barry Sherman was under investigation for breaking lobbying rules | The Star

 

[human]

I don't know if this has been posted since I haven't had any notificatins of new poats for a while.
Barry Sherman was under investigation for breaking lobbying rules | The Star

Wow! The penalty would be a five year ban from lobbying! I am sure that would cause him to commit suicide!

 

[Wondergirl]

Kerry clearly failed the polygraph and willingly admitted to lying. Now you are twisting his (false) admission into blaming the guy who performed the polygraph? Well at least you are consistent in blaming everybody else.

"Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test."

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

Michael Arntfield was in on the poly?

WOW

 

[Wondergirl]

This thread has taken a turn toward the weird. Post after post by a single person with no stated connection to or knowledge of the crime ..... insisting with rising anger that the only theory appropriate for consideration is one that’s been long discarded by everyone who does have knowledge of the crime ..... a theory that was never put forth as anything more than an initial lead anyway ..... a theory that currently has support only from one single source, KW, who doesn’t have any legitimate basis for knowledge of the crime .... and a theory that is rendered impossible by basic logic.

If the architect from that last meeting was found, surely he’d confirm what every media source has reported - HS went home after the meeting (“before 5”) and BS stayed at the office (until sometime between 6:30 and 8:30).

Given that evidence shows the attack began when HS entered the home - and given that BS didn’t get home until 1.5-3.5 hours after her - BARRY WAS NOT PRESENT WHEN HONEY WAS ATTACKED. THEREFORE BARRY IS NOT THE PERSON WHO ATTACKED HONEY.

What about that is so hard to understand?

Why does this conversation continue to be dominated & derailed by the agenda of an unsupported and long-abandoned theory that is logically impossible?

If the bizarre idea at work is to push BS as perp to prevent discussion of the identity of the actual perp ... ??...... I probably don’t need to point out that this isn’t the place for that. LE are conducting the investigation, not posters here. And LE are capable of basic logic - they understand that [HS attacked in home] + [BS located outside of home] = BS not HS’s attacker.


Source for times they went home:
“Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood.

Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say.”
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

Great post, thank-you.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Michael Arntfield was in on the poly?

WOW

MA comes in at approximately the 26:04 mark. He’s brilliant.

 

[ldlager]

This thread has taken a turn toward the weird. Post after post by a single person with no stated connection to or knowledge of the crime ..... insisting with rising anger that the only theory appropriate for consideration is one that’s been long discarded by everyone who does have knowledge of the crime ..... a theory that was never put forth as anything more than an initial lead anyway ..... a theory that currently has support only from one single source, KW, who doesn’t have any legitimate basis for knowledge of the crime .... and a theory that is rendered impossible by basic logic.

If the architect from that last meeting was found, surely he’d confirm what every media source has reported - HS went home after the meeting (“before 5”) and BS stayed at the office (until sometime between 6:30 and 8:30).

Given that evidence shows the attack began when HS entered the home - and given that BS didn’t get home until 1.5-3.5 hours after her - BARRY WAS NOT PRESENT WHEN HONEY WAS ATTACKED. THEREFORE BARRY IS NOT THE PERSON WHO ATTACKED HONEY.

What about that is so hard to understand?

Why does this conversation continue to be dominated & derailed by the agenda of an unsupported and long-abandoned theory that is logically impossible?

If the bizarre idea at work is to push BS as perp to prevent discussion of the identity of the actual perp ... ??...... I probably don’t need to point out that this isn’t the place for that. LE are conducting the investigation, not posters here. And LE are capable of basic logic - they understand that [HS attacked in home] + [BS located outside of home] = BS not HS’s attacker.


Source for times they went home:
“Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood.

Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say.”
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

I am interested in knowing how you know or can state as fact that honey arrived home before Barry. IF she left apotex before he did, there is no evidence that has been made public that I am aware of that confirms that she arrived home first. She may have gone shopping, visited a friend, etc. In fact, based on what we know it is just as likely that Barry in fact arrived home before she did.

 

[Wondergirl]

Regarding the forced entry into the home:


Greenspan also accused Toronto police of failing to thoroughly check the entry points into the home.

"If this best practice had been followed, they would have located the point of entry into the home, which would have seriously undermined their misleading and irresponsible conclusion that there had been no forced entry," he said.

Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

 

[casesensitive]

I am interested in knowing how you know or can state as fact that honey arrived home before Barry. IF she left apotex before he did, there is no evidence that has been made public that I am aware of that confirms that she arrived home first. She may have gone shopping, visited a friend, etc. In fact, based on what we know it is just as likely that Barry in fact arrived home before she did.

It is likely that Honey arrived home before Barry, but you are right, this is an assumption and not a known fact. I mentioned this before--hopefully TSP have surveillance camera evidence to determine what time each Sherman arrived home, or at least who arrived first.

 

[Tortoise]

It is likely that Honey arrived home before Barry, but you are right, this is an assumption and not a known fact. I mentioned this before--hopefully TSP have surveillance camera evidence to determine what time each Sherman arrived home, or at least who arrived first.

Yes, or phone signals.

 

[taylorss]

I am interested in knowing how you know or can state as fact that honey arrived home before Barry. IF she left apotex before he did, there is no evidence that has been made public that I am aware of that confirms that she arrived home first. She may have gone shopping, visited a friend, etc. In fact, based on what we know it is just as likely that Barry in fact arrived home before she did.

Good question, thanks! My understanding that HS got home first comes from widespread media reporting on their departure times from Apotex in conjunction with statements about their arrivals at the home before the attack. This consistent linking of departure from meeting with arrival at home IMO indicates that reporters believe the two are connected.

BTW the issue isn’t whether HS made any stops, but whether she got home before BS. But IIRC I haven’t seen any media discussion or speculation about possible stops HS made on her way home. Any such stop would be a big part of the story, since whoever HS encountered when stopping would be the last to see her alive and/or a possible perp who followed her home. That there’s been no discussion of any such stop counsels against inventing it on one’s own IMO.

Here’s an example of the sort of reporting, consistent with everything else I’ve seen (tho times cited are slightly different), that supports the conclusion that HS wasn’t seen again after the meeting - ergo did not appear anywhere else after the meeting - ergo went home in short order - ergo got there well before BS:

“In the Sherman case, both were last seen alive on the evening of Dec. 13, 2017: Honey left a meeting at Apotex headquarters with her husband and the architects of a planned Forest Hill home around 6:30 p.m., and Barry left his office at 8:30 p.m. One scenario under investigation by police, sources say, is that Honey arrived home shortly after 7 p.m. and was surprised by an attacker or attackers; the same happened to Barry when he arrived home later, around 9 p.m.”
Where is Honey Sherman’s will?

 

[MistyWaters]

Regarding the forced entry into the home:


Greenspan also accused Toronto police of failing to thoroughly check the entry points into the home.

"If this best practice had been followed, they would have located the point of entry into the home, which would have seriously undermined their misleading and irresponsible conclusion that there had been no forced entry," he said.

Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

I think this quote is a great example of doublespeak and why I think Greenspan’s huff and puff was all for show.

Greenspan is definitely aware that LE’s early statement regarding no forced entry was the result of their cursory check of the premises that revealed no indications of locked doors or windows broke open by force.

But TPS has never indicated they are unaware of “the point of entry into the home” however that’s what Greenspan has directed his criticism toward.

 

[casesensitive]

But TPS has never indicated they are unaware of “the point of entry into the home” however that’s what Greenspan has directed his criticism toward.

rsbm

I agree, and since TPS is not sharing info with Greenspan, he would have no idea what they have discovered during their investigation. Also, "no sign of forced entry" usually can be taken to denote that a perp was invited in (known by the victim) or had their own key, garage door opener etc.

 

[ldlager]

I think this quote is a great example of doublespeak and why I think Greenspan’s huff and puff was all for show.

Greenspan is definitely aware that LE’s early statement regarding no forced entry was the result of their cursory check of the premises that revealed no indications of locked doors or windows broke open by force.

But TPS has never indicated they are unaware of “the point of entry into the home” however that’s what Greenspan has directed his criticism toward.

di

I’m not sure about that. My impression/recollection? was that the Greenspan reference was to an examination of the exterior door locks, and I inferred that the PI’s had discovered that one of them had been picked or tampered with.
My impression from his words also was that LE did not find that on their own, that the PI team found it. I say that because he specifically said that police didn’t follow best practices when looking at the potential entry points. He didn’t limit that criticism to the first day or two that LE had the house. He said it as a blanket statement, and I conclude that he meant for the whole time LE had the house.
It is entirely possible that LE told the family that they found no indication of how anyone entered the house during the 6 weeks they had the house, but the PI’s discovered something with one or more locks when they got access to the house. Then the PIs advised LE and probably the family what they had discovered.
All speculation on my part based on the press conference and the words Greenspan used.

 

[MistyWaters]

di

I’m not sure about that. My impression/recollection? was that the Greenspan reference was to an examination of the exterior door locks, and I inferred that the PI’s had discovered that one of them had been picked or tampered with.
My impression from his words also was that LE did not find that on their own, that the PI team found it. I say that because he specifically said that police didn’t follow best practices when looking at the potential entry points. He didn’t limit that criticism to the first day or two that LE had the house. He said it as a blanket statement, and I conclude that he meant for the whole time LE had the house.
It is entirely possible that LE told the family that they found no indication of how anyone entered the house during the 6 weeks they had the house, but the PI’s discovered something with one or more locks when they got access to the house. Then the PIs advised LE and probably the family what they had discovered.
All speculation on my part based on the press conference and the words Greenspan used.

If the relationship between Greenspan and TPS was as adversary as he made it appear, if TPS’s investigation was truly that inept, chances of successfully prosecuting anyone ever would be very remote. TPS witnesses would look like utter fools on the witness stand. But at this point in time, I can understand why Greenspan might want any suspects to think the investigation has been thoroughly botched by LE through his jumbled allegations that point toward nothingness. It resembles the classic good guy/bad guy routine.

Because then he went on to say this -

“Greenspan said the private investigation is not meant to undermine the work of police, but rather to advance "the common goal of finding and prosecuting the perpetrators."....”
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

 

[ldlager]

If the relationship between Greenspan and TPS was as adversary as he made it appear, if TPS’s investigation was truly that inept, chances of successfully prosecuting anyone ever would be very remote. TPS witnesses would look like utter fools on the witness stand. But at this point in time, I can understand why Greenspan might want any suspects to think the investigation has been thoroughly botched by LE through his jumbled allegations that point toward nothingness. It resembles the classic good guy/bad guy routine.

Because then he went on to say this -

“Greenspan said the private investigation is not meant to undermine the work of police, but rather to advance "the common goal of finding and prosecuting the perpetrators."....”
Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers reward of up to $10M for information about killings | CBC News

It worries me, because I fear that it may have, in fact, been that inept........

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Re: no signs of forced entry. I looked up information on ‘signs your lock has been tampered with’. Keeping in mind there are 9 entrances to the Sherman home.
I understand that LE are highly skilled at determining whether a lock has been picked and this information is geared towards the average person-

1. Lock bumping.

This technique is what professional locksmiths often employ. In fact, bumping has been popular since the early 1900s but only to real lock experts. However, since people started talking about the process on the media, so many copycats (and burglars) all over the world have tried it, as well.

How is bumping done? First, one files the teeth of a key down into a number of points to make it look like a small saw. They insert this modified key all the way into the keyhole and take it out by one click. Then, they take a blunt object and hit the key. They withdraw it by one click again and repeat the process. This is done until all the tumblers of the lock have been caught. When this happens, you can finally open the door.

Professional lock bumpers will hardly leave any trace, but amateurs who it hastily will definitely leave marks. How do you know if your locks have been bumped? Look for fresh scratches or nicks around the keyhole caused by the pounding.

Have Your Locks Been Tampered? Here’s How To Tell

 

[MistyWaters]

Re: no signs of forced entry. I looked up information on ‘signs your lock has been tampered with’. Keeping in mind there are 9 entrances to the Sherman home.
I understand that LE are highly skilled at determining whether a lock has been picked and this information is geared towards the average person-


Have Your Locks Been Tampered? Here’s How To Tell

The term “forced entry” involves the use of force - smashing, breaking, kicking in, etc and LE has only ever stated there was no forced entry.


But for sure, illegal entry can occur by tampering with locks on doors or windows without the use of force.

 

[MistyWaters]

It worries me, because I fear that it may have, in fact, been that inept........

Well the other allegation by Greenspan, that LE should have been nothing except for attempting to haul in everyone who ever claimed to be in the Sherman 12000 sq ft house over the years, regardless of the location, in order to eliminate them as suspects is equally absurd. If LE has a strong suspect and found his palm or finger prints in multiple locations near the crime scene, why on earth would that be cause to eliminate him just because there was a match?

That was my earlier point. Look closely and Greenspan’s critique of TPS was indeed creative but at the same time absolutely as meaningless as is the forecast of snowfall in a Canadian winter.

BBM

“....Greenspan also accused police of mishandling the investigation by overlooking about 25 palm prints and fingerprints the private investigators found in the home.

"The failure to follow simple procedures regarding print elimination fell below the best-practice standards," he said....”
A year later, police still struggling to solve deaths of Honey and Barry Sherman | CBC News

 

[JDG]

I think we need to remember that Greenspan and the TPS are on the same side of the law.

They aren't adversarial, the criticisms are minor and perhaps even fabricated.

For his team to vacuum 2 months after the deaths and claim that the TPS did not, is absurd. IMO

Greenspan does not know what the TPS have/have not done. He just wishes he did...lol

Greenspan is being well paid and needs to have the 'appearance' of doing something to earn said money.

I do hope there is a break in this case soon. Perhaps the staffing changes will be helpful.