Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

Status
Not open for further replies.
What were the many signs you've read/heard about that convince you he was "off"?

One of his classmates said he was withdrawn/a loner/pretty silent, but on the other hand, one of his teachers said he was quiet and unremarkable, but DID have friends.

He didn't last through basic training in the Marines, but that could have been for any number of reasons, including an inability/unwillingness to accept authority or just plain laziness, lack of motivation/ self discipline.

He seems to have a horrid work history, but he was only 21, had no special skills, and lived in a very rural area with very few available jobs of any kind, including entry level.

His grandfather said he was played computer games a lot, but that isn't unusual at all for a young man is age (or even older).

I'd be unhappy and likely worried if my own son couldn't get it together better at that age, but without more indications something was seriously wrong, I can't imagine concluding he would be capable of harming anyone, much less of proudly committing horrific crimes against strangers.

What is most scary to me is that the signs don't seem to have been there, at least that we know about so far.
Were his parents so involved with their own lives that they
did not notice their son was enamored with dead animal heads?

Jeffrey Dahmer's father later admitted his son's fetish with
dead animals as a child. But he also admitted he and his wife
did not get along, fought a lot, and the wife took drugs a lot.
The father, a chemist, admitted they 'may' have missed some
signs that their son was a future psycho serial murderer.
But initially they were in total denial. Pretty common.
 
Well said; indeed.

For those of us who grew up in the often romanticized as "blissfully wholesome" decades post WWII (50's-70's), we recall the sudden genesis of the "milk carton kids". We realized the collective paralyzing fear as the 80's ushered in so-called "helicopter parenting" in response to the wave of cable news stories about far away missing, later found assaulted, raped, tortured and some decapitated, kids.

The ripple-effect goes well beyond the perpetrator, the victim(s), the community and even a nation. The entire planet can rapidly be compelled to forever change by a single, brutal act of violence.

As I try to balance this extreme negative with anything positive, as difficult as it is under the circumstances; it is true that violent crime has fallen nearly in half since it peaked in the mid-70's. But still at a grave emotional/psychological cost. So many innocent lives given for us to learn the hash reality of human suffering, and so many adventurous childhoods sacrificed. Our kids may be safer, yet they are still not safe.
Which is why it's so vital that we all remember how many good people there were in this situation. All the wonderful people who joined those search parties, knowing they may encounter the stuff of nightmares, and yet they stood, arm in arm, hoping against hope to find this child.
The dog walker who immediately sheltered this child with her body, literally putting her life on the line knowing that he had already brutally murdered two people to take this child, and yet she took that child in her presence and put her life on the line for a complete stranger.
The family that sat for a tense half hour waiting for LE to arrive, putting themselves at risk of death to shelter her until help arrived. Someone else's child and they protected her, offered her a blanket, warmth, shelter, safety, food, water, anything she wanted.
LE who arrested this man, walked into the belly of the beast and confronted him and took him into custody.
And let's not forget the tired and bedraggled LE who wouldn't give up, who got her name, face and story out there so the entire country knew who she was.
And us, each of us...how many are on this site??? Thousands of us, who cried, cheered and cared about this child, a child we will probably never even meet let alone know, we cared. You cared, I cared, about someone we don't even know. Measure that empathy, that love, that essence of human kindness against that one miniscule mess of a human and you see that it really is a wonderful world.
 
I'm sorry, I can't talk'

JPs father, spoke to CNN's Jean Casarez at the Barron County Justice Center on Tuesday. He said he was there to pass along a note to the Closs family.

"All I care about right now is Jayme's family. I want to get them a note," he said, declining to provide more details on the letter and apologizing for not being able to say more.

Father of kidnap suspect has a letter for Jayme Closs' family - CNN
I hope his family also finds a measure of peace and gets some support through this.
 
Dad supposedly stopped every Saturday or something per Jayme in one article. Wouldn't he wonder who his son was playing Monopoly with? Or for that matter, they may have been playing it together (dad and son)... Just saying that like with everything else, who knows...

BBM: that’s totally possible.

I keep hammering on about reading/referring to the CC, because not every MSM outlet is reporting it verbatim, & others (some of the more sensational tabloids) are cherry-picking and embellishing.

We don’t know who was playing, or even if anyone was: that comes from a tabloid photo of a Monopoly game published by (from memory) Radar Online, Daily Fail, NY Post.

We don’t know if his father visited every Saturday, or how many times he visited:
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/jayme+closs+complaint.pdf page 11

“The defendant stated that, when his father would come to the house, which was typically on Saturdays...”
 
What were the many signs you've read/heard about that convince you he was "off"?

One of his classmates said he was withdrawn/a loner/pretty silent, but on the other hand, one of his teachers said he was quiet and unremarkable, but DID have friends.

He didn't last through basic training in the Marines, but that could have been for any number of reasons, including an inability/unwillingness to accept authority or just plain laziness, lack of motivation/ self discipline.

He seems to have a horrid work history, but he was only 21, had no special skills, and lived in a very rural area with very few available jobs of any kind, including entry level.

His grandfather said he was played computer games a lot, but that isn't unusual at all for a young man is age (or even older).

I'd be unhappy and likely worried if my own son couldn't get it together better at that age, but without more indications something was seriously wrong, I can't imagine concluding he would be capable of harming anyone, much less of proudly committing horrific crimes against strangers.

What is most scary to me is that the signs don't seem to have been there, at least that we know about so far.

Yes, one glaringly missing sign is no criminally history. I would think this will be a case of interest to future profilers, criminologists and psychologists. A rare escalation jump from nothing to armed B&E, double homicide and kidnapping. Although, the Parkland shooter had somewhere around 70 PD calls and there were certainly missed opportunities to see he faced criminal court proceedings. Perhaps we'll learn there were similar passes granted to JP. IDK. MOO.
 
She remarried 2 months ago? Jayme was already in captivity at this time. That would be sometime in November. I wonder if he left Jayme hidden and attended the wedding? This is the first I've heard of this so not aware of details, actual date, etc.
He must have gone to the wedding.
 
It's a common mask for extreme temps, also could have contributed to a tactical LE assumption by James. Here's a sample
41WPhOEKTpL._SY450_.jpg
He said he removed this when he got into the driving seat of the car so Jayme didn't see his face until they arived at the house, maybe he put it back on for a while to scare her? So she didn't actually see his face when he committed the murder. Not sure if this will be problematic later if he pleads not guilty.
 
Were his parents so involved with their own lives that they
did not notice their son was enamored with dead animal heads?

Jeffrey Dahmer's father later admitted his son's fetish with
dead animals as a child. But he also admitted he and his wife
did not get along, fought a lot, and the wife took drugs a lot.
The father, a chemist, admitted they 'may' have missed some
signs that their son was a future psycho serial murderer.
But initially they were in total denial. Pretty common.

Are you referring to what his alleged GF from HS told the Radar tabloid?

Not sure how reliable that info is, especially since unless I've misunderstood or missed some basic facts (entirely possible), what she said about the cabin made no sense, especially the part about him possibly sneaking into it. Eh? He grew up there, right?
 
Am i misremembering that when LE first showed up to the crime scene they thought suicide? Dont you realize within seconds when you don't find a gun near either body in conjunction with the screams on the 911 call that its something way bigger ? Sure the Taurus didn't have front license plates but it was the only car you drove past and you knew direction. Just bothers me maybe i am wrong on the original 911 communication
Am i misremembering that when LE first showed up to the crime scene they thought suicide
[/QUOTE]
That initial "possible suicide" assessment was communicated to dispatch before they entered (cleared) the home. It was likely based on past experience (a recent Barron Cty double homicide and suicide a year prior in a domestic violence case) and the fact the first responding officers had little information to go on, sans "hang up call with lots of yelling" (ETA) similar to the previously mentioned case.

Very true but i went in and found that it took them over an hour and 20 min to change the the call from suicide to homicide. I absolutely understand it takes awhile to come up with the abduction piece but it shouldn't have taken very long on the homicide end.
 
Are you referring to what his alleged GF from HS told the Radar tabloid?

Not sure how reliable that info is, especially since unless I've misunderstood or missed some basic facts (entirely possible), what she said about the cabin made no sense, especially the part about him possibly sneaking into it. Eh? He grew up there, right?
I think she meant that she believes he had snuck into the Closs home before.
 
Are you referring to what his alleged GF from HS told the Radar tabloid?

Not sure how reliable that info is, especially since unless I've misunderstood or missed some basic facts (entirely possible), what she said about the cabin made no sense, especially the part about him possibly sneaking into it. Eh? He grew up there, right?

I also doubt the alleged girlfriends account for two reasons.
1 - Daily mail initially reported that the GF stated he was prone to rage and slashed her mothers tires. This article had no mention of any sort of animal abuse or roadkill, etc.
Hours later
2- Radar online reported the story about animal abuse, roadkill, taxidermy, etc.

Why wouldn't the two reports from the same person contain both stories? I can't imagine that Daily Mail got the animal abuse story and didn't run it. Why would the GF report that to one news station and not the other? Especially when you are talking two tabloids that pay for stories. I'm going to hold on taking these accounts as fact for this reason.

As to the second part of your post ; I believe the GF was implying that she believed that JP likely snuck into the Closs home prior to committing the crimes as he was that level of creepy.
 
Also, I do want to reply to this part. First, it's not armchair psychology when it's my life long field of study, years of schooling and a heavy focus on victim advocacy.

Removing stigma from things like "Stokholm Syndrome" or "trauma bonding" in order to allow victims to process their experience with support rather than blame or shame is kind of my jam.

Yes, Jayme did take advantage of an opportunity to flee but based on the criminal complaint it wasn't the only time she had that opportunity. What kept her there prior was manipulation of her reality, brainwashing (also not a psychological term; originated from war methods. The psychological term is "thought reform" ) and intimidation according to JP's own confession.

That is NO FAULT OF JAYME'S AND IS A NATURAL BIOLOGICAL SURVIVAL RESPONSE.

In fact, that's at the very core of trauma bonding. "Intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment creates powerful emotional bonds that are resistant to change." This can be as simple as "no rage" if the totes/weights aren't removed as the reward and extreme rage if they are.

The longer this method is used on a victim the more difficult it becomes to break free of it. Which is where you get into more extreme cases such as the Norrmalmstorg robbery (which lead to the coining of the phrase Stokholm Syndrome) or even a battered wife who stays with, adamantly defends her abuser and refuses to testify against them.

There's no shame in it. It's what the brain does in order to manage the unimaginable and keep the body safe.

I will say it's quite miraculous and a testament to her spirit that Jayme was able to break those bonds after 88 days and what she had witnessed.
Just a couple of things, a wife who stays with her abuser is a complete different scenario in that there was a relationship before the abuse started, love, attraction, good memories and a dependency on the partner.
But what most people don't understand is in this unique situation, JC's parents were both killed. This isn't an adult, it's a child, and her parents are gone. Her most important connection wiped away by the person who now holds her hostage. That alone would add tremendously to the dependency she would have on this person, added to the fact that he literally holds her life in his hands.
For her to have found the fortitude to escape, she has no knowledge that the entire country is looking for her, that anyone even knows who she is, she has no idea where she is, it's winter and cold, she could easily just run into the woods and get lost and freeze. But she took that chance and fought back, she ran and saved herself. That kind of fortitude is incredible. I'm hopeful LE will remember this and it will revitalize the activity on cold cases.
 
He must have gone to the wedding.
You're thinking like a normal, healthy minded person.
I doubt this was a normal, healthy minded family.
moo
ps/ I hope they dig deep enough to uncover any possible
domestic violence towards children and/or wife. It may or may not ever be reported in conjunction with this crime.
 
I am wondering what if any other vehicles were modified or if most everything he said is a lie. Per the perp and who knows if it is true, he made two other attempts but left because of too many cars the Closses, etc. So he never messed with the trunk release, dome light, etc. before the night of the actual abduction yet was going to abduct her on those other occasions without having done that?? Or was he in a different vehicle? Because he states he pulled over that night to do those things to his car. I do not believe half of his story at least. He is playing cat and mouse, as someone, maybe it was you, put it.
Agree on everything. I would't be shocked if we find out that he was stalking them way more than 2 times.
 
I’m not sure why we keep going round and round about Stockholm Syndrome. I see nothing that indicates she developed a psychological alliance with him. JMO.
I don't either. Had she done that, she would not have taken the risk to run into the woods in the winter. She mentioned that he had hit her for not following rules, that would imply she was actually not forming any bond with him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
179
Guests online
3,435
Total visitors
3,614

Forum statistics

Threads
591,818
Messages
17,959,579
Members
228,620
Latest member
ohbeehaave
Back
Top