Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Mom24]

You're thinking like a normal, healthy minded person.
I doubt this was a normal, healthy minded family.
moo
ps/ I hope they dig deep enough to uncover any possible
domestic violence towards children and/or wife. It may or may not ever be reported in conjunction with this crime.

I'm going to bet if there was any violence or issues of abuse, it wasn't coming from the parents.

 

[Hope4More]

I think she meant that she believes he had snuck into the Closs home before.

That would at least make more sense. As written, the alleged GF says she has " slept in that home" (weird), eaten in "that home," then, that it wouldn't surprise her if he'd snuck in the house "without Jayme, just on his own" (paraphrasing).

 

[Mistermagoo]

I’m not sure why we keep going round and round about Stockholm Syndrome. I see nothing that indicates she developed a psychological alliance with him. JMO.

 

[Ibiz]

I hope his family also finds a measure of peace and gets some support through this.

I must say: I really feel for the guy. When I saw the photo of him in the parking lot of the courthouse, he looked like a totally "beaten man." Very heart breaking to see.

 

[Mom24]

I must say: I really feel for the guy. When I saw the photo of him in the parking lot of the courthouse, he looked like a totally "beaten man." Very heart breaking to see.

I do care as well, however something had to have happened in that home. If the father feels any level of responsibility, I would say it's well founded. Both of his sons have committed crimes, personal crimes, and any person looking in has to wonder what in the world nurtured that kind of future behavior. Had it just been one child in the family, then it would be an anomaly, but to have two sons? Something happened in that home. Someone turned a blind eye at the very least.

 

[bellyup]

I’m not sure why we keep going round and round about Stockholm Syndrome. I see nothing that indicates she developed a psychological alliance with him. JMO.

I think I answered this in subsequent posts but I will also answer directly as to why I'm talking about it and why I think it's important.

I do believe that Jayme was likely experiencing trauma bonding. It would be almost impossible based on the things we know as fact for this not to have happened. I think it's incredibly important to remove the blame and stigma involved with trauma bonding so that victims have the ability to process their trauma without blame.

I've seen people posting about how they would have escaped sooner and that is an example of such blame and misunderstanding of how trauma bonding works.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Some thoughts about the “ ...vehicle that was maroon in color and what he believed to be an older style vehicle ... [which]appeared to him to be an older Ford Taurus or similar vehicle.” encountered by LE responding to the 911 call on October 15th:

Although this information was not released to the public, how do we know that LE WEREN’T following up on it behind the scenes? Could it be that they were, & that they had as yet unpublished reasons for not revealing this information. It’s happened before in other cases I’ve followed.

OT: it reminds me of multiple incidents (not as tragic as this one) when I lived in and worked for a very rural county/municipality in a position where I interacted with and/or was asked for info by LE. “Don’t tell me, it’s a dark-coloured Honda again, right?”, was a running joke. Said Honda being the local equivalent of the Ford Taurus in this case. I.e. a car so common that it was almost impossible to follow up on without a plate #.

 

[Mom24]

It's an assumption that a wife that stays with her abusive partner has " a relationship before the abuse started, love, attraction, good memories". In many cases, that isn't the scenario at all. Many people marry someone who is already got them knee deep in trauma bonding.

And yes. There's an incredibly significant amount of trauma bonding that would occur just based on the fact that he murdered her parents in front of her and literally held her life in his hands. Trauma bonding is literally a means to survival for people in horrific situations. It upsets me greatly when people use it to imply that the victim was supportive of their captor or in some way complicit to their abuse. I believe that by discussing it can we stop that stigma and better support victims,

I like your use of "fortitude". I was looking for a word that didn't have implied expectations (that I avoid using with victims) and you nailed that perfectly.

THIS! I couldn't agree with you more. It's a mean to survival, and in this situation where a child witnessed her captor kill her parents, that's exactly what this was about.
I feel the same way when children are screaming and crying for their mom as they're being removed and some twit asks "how can they love that monster?" Trust me, that's not love you're witnessing.

 

[JaneEyre]

I think I answered this in subsequent posts but I will also answer directly as to why I'm talking about it and why I think it's important.

I do believe that Jayme was likely experiencing trauma bonding. It would be almost impossible based on the things we know as fact for this not to have happened. I think it's incredibly important to remove the blame and stigma involved with trauma bonding so that victims have the ability to process their trauma without blame.

I've seen people posting about how they would have escaped sooner and that is an example of such blame and misunderstanding of how trauma bonding works.

What evidence do you have that she experienced any trauma bonding? I don’t mean speculation on what may have happened, but evidence we know from the criminal complaint?

I have no negative view of Stockholm Syndrome and those who experience it. I just see no evidence of a psychological alliance based on what we know. As far as I can tell, it is being discussed solely to “remove the stigma of it,” yet at this point I see no evidence that it has anything to do with this case.

 

[Hope4More]

He was visiting his mom the day Jayme escaped.

You've kept up better about the details of all this, but are you sure that he was visiting his mother? Even if he was, that doesn't mean he wasn't significantly estranged from her, and/or angry with her, especially if he felt abandoned by her. Didn't both sons live with their father, not her?

 

[oviedo]

He was visiting his mom the day Jayme escaped.

Very glad he did that - otherwise we would not have Jayme back yet IMO

 

[Mom24]

That would at least make more sense. As written, the alleged GF says she has " slept in that home" (weird), eaten in "that home," then, that it wouldn't surprise her if he'd snuck in the house "without Jayme, just on his own" (paraphrasing).

I know, I had to read the article a few times to understand what they were trying to say.
I agree with the others, I do think there's a grain of truth to the story and I'm sure he didn't take the breakup well, but I'm not buying the dead animal part of it until I see proof.

 

[Cher352]

The comments are flying so fast kinda hard to keep up. Is there a fund set up to donate to for Jayme?

Speaking of donating there are fake ones out there so beware.
See link to statement from Douglas County Sheriff's dept.
Douglas Co. Sheriff's Office getting reports of fake pages for Patterson

 

[oviedo]

You've kept up better about the details of all this, but are you sure that he was visiting his mother? Even if he was, that doesn't mean he wasn't significantly estranged from her, and/or angry with her, especially if he felt abandoned by her. Didn't both sons live with their father, not her?

Jayme Closs: Mother of man accused of kidnap is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

Jayme Closs escaped after kidnapper left her to visit his mother 56 miles away - now parent is in shock and scared to leave her home

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

I think after seeing that the Taurus yielded for them to pass, they just figured that the person driving it was a good law abiding citizen who may have been on a joy ride that night, and couldn't of possibly of had anything to do with the murders, or have seen or provided any information that could help solve them.

I would like to know where the info from the other cars came from?

The neighbors possibly?

Also, when we look at the areas that were chosen for the search, it was always in the opposite direction from where the deputies would have had to of driven to get to the Closs house that night.

Why these areas?

They didn't even realize it was the vehicle per Paul Blume (who has been top notch on this case)
Paul Blume on Twitter:

Yes. Barron Co has cameras mounted on their squads. Yes, I understand there is video of vehicles deputies passed on their way to #JaymeCloss house on 10/15. Yes. They looked at that video as part of their investigation. And no. They didn't realize one was a get-away vehicle.

---
The two vehicles released were seen on camera footage in the area.

Two vehicles of interest in Jayme Closs investigation
"Authorities are looking for two vehicles of interest that may be related to the Jayme Closs investigation.Cameras captured surveillance video of two vehicles that were in the area around the time of the shooting at the Closs home in Barron, Wisconsin last week."

---
I would be curious what tips led to the ground searches that were in the opposite direction that JTP traveled, but I don't know that we will ever get an answer on this.

Authorities expand ground search for missing Wisconsin girl Jayme Closs

"Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said Monday that investigators have received more than 1,300 tips and have closed 1,100 of them. Some of the tips led to the decision to resume the ground search, he said, though he declined to elaborate."

 

[JaneEyre]

THIS! I couldn't agree with you more. It's a mean to survival, and in this situation where a child witnessed her captor kill her parents, that's exactly what this was about.
I feel the same way when children are screaming and crying for their mom as they're being removed and some twit asks "how can they love that monster?" Trust me, that's not love you're witnessing.

Where do we see anything that indicates she may have loved this monster? I just believe this conversation has nothing to do with Jayme’s situation, unless we get more information that indicates otherwise.

 

[bellyup]

What evidence do you have that she experienced any trauma bonding? I don’t mean speculation on what may have happened, but evidence we know from the criminal complaint?

I have no negative view of Stockholm Syndrome and those who experience it. I just see no evidence of a psychological alliance based on what we know. As far as I can tell, it is being discussed solely to “remove the stigma of it,” yet at this point I see no evidence that it has anything to do with this case.

Again, I already posted that as have others.
- He murdered her parents in front of her.
- He held her very life in his hands.
- She had no sense of safety aside whatever she could garner from him
- He had her removed from any sense of normalcy she'd ever known
- She was dependent on him for what food he gave her
- He used reward / punishment to entrap her under the bed.

You are free to disagree that Jayme experienced it or not. You are also free to mute me if you don't want to see discussion of it. No hard feelings. But it's my belief that in any case of prolonged abuse / especially with captivity there is trauma bonding taking place.

 

[JaneEyre]

You've kept up better about the details of all this, but are you sure that he was visiting his mother? Even if he was, that doesn't mean he wasn't significantly estranged from her, and/or angry with her, especially if he felt abandoned by her. Didn't both sons live with their father, not her?

Yes. Based on reporting so far, he was visiting his mother. Doesn’t mean he liked her. But that’s the deal.

 

[Rubiconbob]

It's a common mask for extreme temps, also could have contributed to a tactical LE assumption by James. Here's a sample

Have one of these. They are popular for runners... also. When it’s 25 and below easier to wear this than hat/earmuff/scarf.

Wouldn’t think much to see in daylight..
If someone shows up @ 1 am.. I’d call cops tell them to come then maybe ask what’s up.. with Wisconsin gotta think a lot folks have these..

 

[Hope4More]

I know, I had to read the article a few times to understand what they were trying to say.
I agree with the others, I do think there's a grain of truth to the story and I'm sure he didn't take the breakup well, but I'm not buying the dead animal part of it until I see proof.

I'm sure he didn't take a break up well either. But am less sure that he slashed the tires of his (alleged) ex's mother's car. Baron is a teeny tiny place. Even if for whatever reason the mom didn't call LE, I'd be willing to bet that at least half of the town's peeps, including teachers, would have heard rumors about it within a few days.