Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Sjm_qc]

It's much easier to put the puzzle together when one has all the pieces. Many of the things that JP did as a younger person don't necessarily raise red flags on their own. (The animal thing is pretty troubling, for instance, but I stayed to the side and didn't participate in my 26-person class picture, either.) Out of context, many of the things that JP did over the years could have non-nefarious explanations. However, when you piece them all together, they DO paint a much different, unsettling, kind of picture.

I think this is where I start getting antsy. There's nothing wrong with being a loner, nothing wrong with playing video games, etc. We can't just pick ONE of those things out of the group and say, "This was the sign!" It's only when you look at everything together that the pieces start falling into place. Out of context, some of the pieces are totally benign.

This is a really great post.

Piecing together bit & pieces of information coming out in interviews with neighbours, friends, classmates, some of which I’m taking with a grain of salt, there do appear to be some disturbing signs/clues.

However, it’s not yet obvious that anyone knew of or put together ALL of the possible signs/clues before the unthinkable happened.

 

[Mistermagoo]

So JP saw Jayme get ON a school bus one morning and decided that was the girl. So he just goes back to that driveway ( I assume ) that she was boarding the bus from, murders her Mom and Dad and takes her. To me, there is just so much more that I think he is not telling LE or LE is not making public.

 

[Ibiz]

So Paul says they had the getaway car on a dashcam? Is that what he wrote?

Apparently.... also, I would think they did.

 

[kebdal23]

Do we know that the animal thing is true though? I'm not defending JP for his crime in the slightest, but I think we "want" to believe there were signs so we can better justify this in our minds. Is the source that reported that credible?

 

[rogue ant]

I'm not convinced by everything in that article. The dead animal heads/roadkill and amateur taxidermy seemed more horror-movie trope than real experience, like something the ex had not seen for herself but picked up secondhand. The flying off the handle and slashed tires seemed more credible to me.

I agree. Plus if we are going to dismiss the neighbour's account of him having spent time in foster care as an unconfirmed rumour, the same caution should apply to this Radar Online semi-anonymous info, IMO.

 

[cody22]

If a mod tells me it's off topic I will concede.
Personally I don't see discussing trauma bonding as any more off topic than continually evaluating JP's psyche or what happend to him to play into his actions.

It's the flip side of that coin.

And I think important when posters are discussing "why" Jayme didn't move that bed or totes prior to her actual escape. It was starting to look a little victim blamey to me without an understanding of how trauma bonding actually works.

I am beginning to feel like this thread is now a victim of "Stockholm Syndrome."......MOO

 

[bellyup]

It's a side note to abduction/hostage situations so it's normal to discuss it. I think everyone is trying to understand how she found the will to survive this ordeal, and whatever that was inside of her that never gave up hope is amazing. (not offended, just clarifying )

I agree and honestly I'm not trying to figure out how she found the will.
Sadly, I think something got to the point where Jayme likely saw her survival as secondary to escaping the horror which is heartbreaking. There was a comment in one of the articles that (I believe it was Nutter) stated that knew what she was risking (death) when she left and yet she decided to do it anyway.

My bringing up trauma bonding was more seeing people that were teetering VERY close to blaming Jayme for not escaping earlier or prior to when she did. A lot of people don't understand how trauma bonding works and as such their lack of knowledge can re-victimize.

Re-victimization is an admitted hot button for me (especially at WS which I have always felt safe as a victim with their strong victim friendly approach) and it's something I will speak out about if I see it. And on that note, I'm off for awhile.
Sorry to those of you that feel my posts were inappropriate.

 

[Mom24]

I agree about the blind eye part, but just wanted to clarify on the older brother - from what I understand he had one charge of sexual contact with a 16 year old girl when he was 18 (this happens a lot) and the other charge was marijuana related. Neither one, IMO, is indicative of anything other than him being an immature teenage boy. Neither of those charges are anything compared to what JP has done. IMO, please correct me if my understanding of the older brother is wrong. He seems very supportive of the family and what his father is going through in pictures I've seen. He, IMO, is also a victim too - he will forever be known as the brother of monster JP.

To respond I'd have to violate TOS since we aren't allowed to sleuth family beyond what's been written in MSM. So I do agree that those two violations could be seen as immature teen behavior, however there are many teens who successfully enter adulthood without being arrested, in other words criminal behavior is not a right of passage or always the product of youthful ignorance. When you combine it with two children from the same household, it begins to look a little more than coincidental.
All of this is further indication to me that this family needs support and help as well.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Thank you... that's what we need to try and get at... it seems to be somewhat of a head scratcher if you ask me..

Lou Raguse on Twitter

Then there's this:
Circling back to this, authorities withheld that info because it was the best lead they had. They were trying to find a red Taurus owner and didn’t want him to know they had that info and get rid of it.

 

[MyBelle]

What is Trauma Bonding? | The Recovery Expert

"Usually trauma bonds occur in relationships involving inconsistent reinforcement, such as those with addicts and alcoholics or in domestic violence situations. Dysfunctional marriages also cause trauma bonds because there is always a time when things seem to be “normal.” Other types of relationships involving trauma bonds include cult-like religious organizations, kidnapping and hostage situations, those involving child abuse or incest, and unhealthy work environments."

From your own link: Trauma bonding is loyalty to a person who is destructive.

There is absolutely no evidence in those 16-pages that indicates Jayme in any way bonded with her captor or was in any way loyal to him.

She was a terrorized child who escaped and her captor was attempting to find her when LE apprehended him. I seriously doubt her "reward" if he found her would be "no punishment."

JMO

 

[Rosiebones]

I don't either. Had she done that, she would not have taken the risk to run into the woods in the winter. She mentioned that he had hit her for not following rules, that would imply she was actually not forming any bond with him.

I agree. She went out into a northern Wisconsin winter in the late afternoon, not knowing where she was or where she could find safety with oversized shoes on the wrong feet. That doesn't sound like a child who identifies with her kidnapper, quite the opposite, she was willing to risk her life to get away from him.

 

[Mom24]

Apparently.... also, I would think they did.

Hmph. I'd love to hear from them as to why that car didn't seem important at the time and why the other two vehicles they put out there in their press conference were important.

 

[Mom24]

Lou Raguse on Twitter

Then there's this:
Circling back to this, authorities withheld that info because it was the best lead they had. They were trying to find a red Taurus owner and didn’t want him to know they had that info and get rid of it.

Well that makes sense. Or at least it explains the rationale behind it.

 

[bellyup]

From your own link: Trauma bonding is loyalty to a person who is destructive.

Again, loyalty is something that can be as simple as compliance when it comes to trauma bonding. It doesn't imply anything aside psychological allegiance to a captors wishes.

I literally work with this every single day of my life. Hoping the certified trauma therapist who has been around these threads can chime in. I've never bothered to have my profession verified (for a variety of reasons).

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

Lou Raguse on Twitter

Then there's this:
Circling back to this, authorities withheld that info because it was the best lead they had. They were trying to find a red Taurus owner and didn’t want him to know they had that info and get rid of it.

Oh interesting, that seems to say the opposite, hoping for clarification on it.

So Paul says they had the getaway car on a dashcam? Is that what he wrote?

Seems like they have had body/squad cams for a couple of years. Here is a story referencing the BCSO having them in 2016 (story about cops behaving questionably):

Barron County sheriff downplays officers’ comments on recording

'Fitzgerald said, “all of our detectives were there,” as well as a Cumberland police officer.
“It was our mistake, and it was not good, but I am in favor of body cameras and squad cameras because they help us more then they hurt us — sometimes they sting like this incident, but (I) stand behind our program and the advantages of it,” he said.'

 

[kebdal23]

And then my theory on the Taurus. I've mentioned some other logical possibilities before, just trying to rule things out, but this is what I think.

First I think they did think the Taurus could be the bad guy, when they reviewed the cams. But they didn't have much info about it. An older burgundy Taurus or something similar is a pretty vague description, and they didn't have a plate to go by. They were trying to get better views from cams, and possibly from the parties in the "vehicles of interest." Meanwhile though, they had profiles of the bad guy from the FBI. I expect the profiles included that he thought he was smarter than LE. Not even mentioning the Taurus, would reinforce that he'd outsmarted them. They knew he'd be watching the coverage. So by looking clueless, and getting some of the facts wrong, the profilers would be telling them, he'd be smug with delight. Maybe a lot of the things they said were designed to tell him "we don't have a clue!" Such as searching west, when he drove east. Naming other cars, then saying they're not sure about the cars afterall. Why would they do that? Maybe the profile said, that if he thought they were on to him he'd just kill her. And that Jayme's best chance of being alive at the outcome was if he let his guard down and she had the opportunity to escape. Maybe that's why the weird messages in the press conference with the aunts & Molly. They figured he was watching, and maybe Jayme had a chance to watch too. In case she did, telling her, come home. Get away! They were right. If they had come busting down his door, would Jayme have survived? It's been frustrating as heck for us trying to figure stuff out with no information, but what if that no information was carefully calculated not for us, but for the bad guy? JMO

YEEESSSSSSSSSS! There is no WAY LE was clueless enough to ignore the only car they encountered on the way to the crime, knowing what a tiny timeframe there was. I had thoughts about something like this myself. Great post.

 

[indigopearl]

Yeah, I agree. Jayme said in the complaint that "friends and/or relatives" would come over, but of course, she didn't know anything about who was coming over except what he told her when he stashed her under the bed. JP said his father came over on Saturdays but made no mention of anyone else. No one has come forward claiming to be a current friend/acquaintance. If there was a friend out there, or someone who had been in the house, I could understand if they are wary about stepping forward to talk about it, but still. I doubt he had any friends at all.

I also wonder if he would tell her that he was having people over and set her up under the bed to see what she would do. As a way to test her to see if he could trust her when he actually did have his dad (or whoever) there or left the house.

 

[Ibiz]

Lou Raguse on Twitter

Then there's this:
Circling back to this, authorities withheld that info because it was the best lead they had. They were trying to find a red Taurus owner and didn’t want him to know they had that info and get rid of it.

You know something... that's a good theory. As another thought: they may not of wanted to have possibly spooked Patterson into murdering JC. It seems reasonable.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Again, I already posted that as have others.
- He murdered her parents in front of her.
- He held her very life in his hands.
- She had no sense of safety aside whatever she could garner from him
- He had her removed from any sense of normalcy she'd ever known
- She was dependent on him for what food he gave her
- He used reward / punishment to entrap her under the bed.

You are free to disagree that Jayme experienced it or not. You are also free to mute me if you don't want to see discussion of it. No hard feelings. But it's my belief that in any case of prolonged abuse / especially with captivity there is trauma bonding taking place.

Just have to say kudos to your persistence to bring understanding!!!!!

 

[Julia966]

Do we know that the animal thing is true though? I'm not defending JP for his crime in the slightest, but I think we "want" to believe there were signs so we can better justify this in our minds. Is the source that reported that credible?

With only the NY Post reporting it as far as I can tell, I'm skeptical of the dead animals and the slashed tires for now.

 

[indigopearl]

He may have told her people were coming over and stuck her under the bed and no one came over. With the music on, she wouldn't really have been able to hear and he may have done that from time to time to test her.
But neighbors did mention that saw people coming in and out of the house, but I don't know if they were talking about while JC was there or just in general over the years.
And he may have had friends in and out, but given the situation I agree that any friends he may have had are going to be wary about admitting any association to him or the house.

Ha, of course I read this right after I posted almost the same thing