OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[rsd1200]

WRT the Tampering With Evidence charges, there's this quote from a previous WaPo article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...members/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d6339f074a1a



This was likely DeWine just reiterating what was in the indictments for the W's, but it may confirm this is all the tampering that happened.

Again, the tampering charges are different from Count 20 - the charge that deals with interception of oral, wire, electronic, etc. communications.

Count 17- Tampering with Evidence has a date range of Jan 1, 2016 - May 9, 2017, agreed, totally different charge.

Count 20 has a time range of July 1, 2014 (S is a little over 6mos. old) - May 9, 2017 (days before the three searches).
Seems they were "intercepting" something. Charge #19, same time period as #20, Unauthorized Use of Property, it alludes to hacking (which can be as simple as using a password w/o consent).

 

[IQuestion]

I'm sorry. I've been sick and I'm really behind. If it's not too much trouble, could you post a good link for me to begin reading about this? TIA I'm clueless and so behind. However, this sounds like VERY INTERESTING reading. Again, TIA.

BUCKEYES, I hope you are feeling better! Cold & flu season, yuck. I was looking for interviews he had given, because his last court appearance was so "uneasy to watch" (for me) and the story came up on search engine results, Court News Ohio. I just kept reading because the case was so intriguing. Frankly, I thought I had the wrong person at first! Here are a few links: All are pretty short articles.
Ohio attorney fights to save career after admitting to affair with wife of client convicted of murder
Affair with client's wife puts attorney's license in jeopardy
Two Attorneys Receive One-Year Suspensions

 

[Cool Cats]

Lighter Court Reading for those of us bleary-eyed over all these Court Proceedings.......

5 Bizarre Ways You Can Brainwash a Courtroom | Cracked.

Seriously, it's interesting.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

GW3 will appear in court march 29th, Does anyone know when the other Ws will appear?

PS: march 29 is by coincidence Brexit day, it will be a busy day in media.

 

[FrankieT]

Lighter Court Reading for those of us bleary-eyed over all these Court Proceedings.......

5 Bizarre Ways You Can Brainwash a Courtroom | Cracked.

Seriously, it's interesting.

This is interesting. I have such a creepy feeling watching JW's interaction with the Judge. That polite smile...he almost looks happy to be in court. I don't like it a bit. I'm sure, I hope, the jurors won't be swayed by that charming polite smile.

 

[Dudly]

This is interesting. I have such a creepy feeling watching JW's interaction with the Judge. That polite smile...he almost looks happy to be in court. I don't like it a bit. I'm sure, I hope, the jurors won't be swayed by that charming polite smile.

I think JW is scared Sh*tless and that is is coping mechanism to try to not show it. If not, he may be a total Psycho and proud of his work. The only other possibility is that,as I mentioned before, he was left home so he would still get S after the dust settles. MOO, of course. I think it is the first thing...

 

[Betty P]

Count 17- Tampering with Evidence has a date range of Jan 1, 2016 - May 9, 2017, agreed, totally different charge.

Count 20 has a time range of July 1, 2014 (S is a little over 6mos. old) - May 9, 2017 (days before the three searches).
Seems they were "intercepting" something. Charge #19, same time period as #20, Unauthorized Use of Property, it alludes to hacking (which can be as simple as using a password w/o consent).

Yes, I noticed that. Those 2 counts (19 and 20) must apply to similar activities. Whatever they were tampering/intercepting with, they were still doing it right up until the raids on the 2 Wagner farms.

JMO, that rules out personal property or anything placed in the homes of the victims, as it would have been discovered and retrieved as evidence before then, right?

At the same time, I'm wondering about DeWine's remark that W's had put surveillance electronics on family pets.???? Gotta be phones or something and Count 20 must refer to multiple instances or types of surveillance.

ETA: Maybe we should ask gitana1, but Count 20 must refer to multiple instances of

 

[Cool Cats]

This is interesting. I have such a creepy feeling watching JW's interaction with the Judge. That polite smile...he almost looks happy to be in court. I don't like it a bit. I'm sure, I hope, the jurors won't be swayed by that charming polite smile.

No. The Jurors----well if I were a Juror-----I would want to see the defendant serious and respectful in court. Laughing and smiling when your on trial for murder is an insult to the victim's families.

Imagine the Gilleys, Manleys, and Rhodens having to see a bunch of arrogant smirking in court. Huge turn off......

 

[Betty P]

Lighter Court Reading for those of us bleary-eyed over all these Court Proceedings.......

5 Bizarre Ways You Can Brainwash a Courtroom | Cracked.

Seriously, it's interesting.

Good article, including the one linked within
The Picture of Innocence? : A defendant who uses clothes and other tricks to appear harmless may sway the jury, experts say. Michael Milken would have looked

I've also noticed Judge Deering is very stiff when he sits down in his chair, indicating he may have back problems. I think the lawyers try to keep these hearings brief for that reason, especially if they've been meeting "in camera" with him for an hour or so before the hearing.

 

[Ellmau]

I thought I had heard this before.
Rhoden Family Massacre: Pets Carried Surveillance Devices - news - att.net

The dogs?

 

[ColMustard]

Good article, including the one linked within
The Picture of Innocence? : A defendant who uses clothes and other tricks to appear harmless may sway the jury, experts say. Michael Milken would have looked

I've also noticed Judge Deering is very stiff when he sits down in his chair, indicating he may have back problems. I think the lawyers try to keep these hearings brief for that reason, especially if they've been meeting "in camera" with him for an hour or so before the hearing.

OT here, but I finally confirmed in this last hearing, Judge Deering is missing half of his left index finger. Noticed it before, but the camera was never quite on it. Irrelevant maybe, but he's no stranger to pain.

I don't think J's smile looks charming at all, I said before it reminds me of The Joker, but looking back, the smile looks forced in some pics with little S. Kinda like the girl in the Turbotax commercials.

I think a cell phone on a dog would be noticed right away, but a tiny listening bug could be hidden behind a collar. Maybe if shock collars were worn, those could be hollowed out to install devices? But what evidence shows pets had devices on them? Surely the Ws would remove them .. So then have investigators uncovered files (pics/audio) with the data Ws obtained? It reads like they either found the devices on the pets, or at least know for sure they were bugged.

This part of the article doesn't sound right to me:
Rhoden Family Massacre: Pets Carried Surveillance Devices - news - att.net

"As for the custody angle, NBC News reports Sophia was with Jake Wagner when the murders happened and was supposed to go back to her mom the next day."

Picked up on Thursday evening and back home by Friday or Saturday? I suppose you have to consider the source, a quote from J?

 

[Cool Cats]

Good article, including the one linked within
The Picture of Innocence? : A defendant who uses clothes and other tricks to appear harmless may sway the jury, experts say. Michael Milken would have looked

I've also noticed Judge Deering is very stiff when he sits down in his chair, indicating he may have back problems. I think the lawyers try to keep these hearings brief for that reason, especially if they've been meeting "in camera" with him for an hour or so before the hearing.

This article is interesting, I missed it. Do you mean meeting in chambers?

Judge Judy says she has to use a special pillow on her chair for her back. He doesn't move much at all when he's seated, so who knows?

But you can't rush trials. If all 4 go through I wonder if he will get to do one of them? Be interesting to see him do a trial.

Does it bother anyone that Junk and Canepa sometimes laugh together before the judge comes in? Even George 3's attorney was laughing with her. Is it normal for a defense attorney to laugh with the prosecution?

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, I noticed that. Those 2 counts (19 and 20) must apply to similar activities. Whatever they were tampering/intercepting with, they were still doing it right up until the raids on the 2 Wagner farms.

JMO, that rules out personal property or anything placed in the homes of the victims, as it would have been discovered and retrieved as evidence before then, right?

At the same time, I'm wondering about DeWine's remark that W's had put surveillance electronics on family pets.???? Gotta be phones or something and Count 20 must refer to multiple instances or types of surveillance.

ETA: Maybe we should ask gitana1, but Count 20 must refer to multiple instances of

It sounds like, to me, that they've used existing technology, at the victims' homes, to their benefit in accomplishing the murders. It's possible that a baby monitor would already be in the home of HMR (she'd recently had a baby shower). Could have even been as simple as entering something, as them, online, to throw off the timeline (DR's and HMR's last texts and s.m. posts, for example?).


With the pets, I took it to mean that they learned the movements of, and tracked the pets, too. The dogs were included as the R's counter-surveillance "devices", along with their video cameras, in other words.

The parents and their sons allegedly hacked their targets’ social media accounts, learned their movements and tracked counter-surveillance devices — “including pets” — on the victims’ properties, court documents say.

Counts 17_20
How could 8 die without a trace of the killers? Father agrees in Fayette court to extradition



Timeline
Timeline of the Pike County killings | Killings | Murder

 

[Betty P]

It sounds like, to me, that they've used existing technology, at the victims' homes, to their benefit in accomplishing the murders. It's possible that a baby monitor would already be in the home of HMR (she'd recently had a baby shower). Could have even been as simple as entering something, as them, online, to throw off the timeline (DR's and HMR's last texts and s.m. posts, for example?).


With the pets, I took it to mean that they learned the movements of, and tracked the pets, too. The dogs were included as the R's counter-surveillance "devices", along with their video cameras, in other words.




Counts 17_20
How could 8 die without a trace of the killers? Father agrees in Fayette court to extradition



Timeline
Timeline of the Pike County killings | Killings | Murder

Oh, yes, I agree on all the surveillance possibilities before the murders. It would have been relatively easy to hack those systems (and cell phones) prior to the murders. I'm sure they got a lot of information from these sources to help in planning and carrying out the murders.

Post-murder, LE would have gathered up the surveillance cameras, etc. during their searches. If W's took victims' cell phones, they would have disabled or destroyed them. No need to do surveillance on those anymore.

I'm curious, though, about what kind of surveillance they were doing after the murders, up until the time they left the Patterson Rd farm. Even if LE had missed a bug or camera in one of the crime scenes, it's battery eventually would have died. Who else did the W's have under surveillance after the murders? Wonder if they were listening in to LE?

 

[Betty P]

GW3 will appear in court march 29th, Does anyone know when the other Ws will appear?

PS: march 29 is by coincidence Brexit day, it will be a busy day in media.

AW - March 20 1:30 pm
JW - Jan 24 11:00 am (pre-trial and motion hearings)
FW - March 28 1:30 pm
GW4 - March 22 1:30 pm
GW3 - March 29 1:30 pm
RN - March 28 10:00 am

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...1t3ZHOmWCEQSeYAe2Nas-0BSosdCw4t9TojgYJjqbvRIA

 

[Dudly]

Yes, I noticed that. Those 2 counts (19 and 20) must apply to similar activities. Whatever they were tampering/intercepting with, they were still doing it right up until the raids on the 2 Wagner farms.

JMO, that rules out personal property or anything placed in the homes of the victims, as it would have been discovered and retrieved as evidence before then, right?

At the same time, I'm wondering about DeWine's remark that W's had put surveillance electronics on family pets.???? Gotta be phones or something and Count 20 must refer to multiple instances or types of surveillance.

ETA: Maybe we should ask gitana1, but Count 20 must refer to multiple instances of

I can't see how this would work. It would have to be battery operated and recharged or stop working after a few hours, I would think....

 

[Dudly]

OT here, but I finally confirmed in this last hearing, Judge Deering is missing half of his left index finger. Noticed it before, but the camera was never quite on it. Irrelevant maybe, but he's no stranger to pain.

I don't think J's smile looks charming at all, I said before it reminds me of The Joker, but looking back, the smile looks forced in some pics with little S. Kinda like the girl in the Turbotax commercials.

I think a cell phone on a dog would be noticed right away, but a tiny listening bug could be hidden behind a collar. Maybe if shock collars were worn, those could be hollowed out to install devices? But what evidence shows pets had devices on them? Surely the Ws would remove them .. So then have investigators uncovered files (pics/audio) with the data Ws obtained? It reads like they either found the devices on the pets, or at least know for sure they were bugged.

This part of the article doesn't sound right to me:
Rhoden Family Massacre: Pets Carried Surveillance Devices - news - att.net

"As for the custody angle, NBC News reports Sophia was with Jake Wagner when the murders happened and was supposed to go back to her mom the next day."

Picked up on Thursday evening and back home by Friday or Saturday? I suppose you have to consider the source, a quote from J?

I think it is safe to say nothing JW said about where or when anything happened, the day before through after the murders, can be believed...

 

[StarEyes]

This is interesting. I have such a creepy feeling watching JW's interaction with the Judge. That polite smile...he almost looks happy to be in court. I don't like it a bit. I'm sure, I hope, the jurors won't be swayed by that charming polite smile.

I personally think he’s just smiling like a gigantic jack***. I don’t think he truly believes he’s going down for this. I have no idea how he could be that ignorant of his situation. Or maybe he thinks he can cut some kind of plea deal to cut his time wayyy down. Again, I have no clue. He knew he was being recorded live. I think he was preening a bit for the camera, casting his biggest brightest smile. Gross. I would imagine his attorneys will strongly suggest he does NOT smile like that during trial. It would look bad, like he thinks this is all funny or no big deal. Whether he listens to them or not is tbd. All JMO, of course.

 

[rsd1200]

Oh, yes, I agree on all the surveillance possibilities before the murders. It would have been relatively easy to hack those systems (and cell phones) prior to the murders. I'm sure they got a lot of information from these sources to help in planning and carrying out the murders.

Post-murder, LE would have gathered up the surveillance cameras, etc. during their searches. If W's took victims' cell phones, they would have disabled or destroyed them. No need to do surveillance on those anymore.

I'm curious, though, about what kind of surveillance they were doing after the murders, up until the time they left the Patterson Rd farm. Even if LE had missed a bug or camera in one of the crime scenes, it's battery eventually would have died. Who else did the W's have under surveillance after the murders? Wonder if they were listening in to LE?

It reads in the indictment that they unlawfully intercepted, or attempted to intercept, or had someone else attempt to intercept, a wire, oral, or electronic communication in Count 20. In today's world, that truly could be anything. I'm not seeing the "wire" so much, but I have wired money in the past couple years (or they still call it that).

 

[IQuestion]

I personally think he’s just smiling like a gigantic jack***. I don’t think he truly believes he’s going down for this. I have no idea how he could be that ignorant of his situation. Or maybe he thinks he can cut some kind of plea deal to cut his time wayyy down. Again, I have no clue. He knew he was being recorded live. I think he was preening a bit for the camera, casting his biggest brightest smile. Gross. I would imagine his attorneys will strongly suggest he does NOT smile like that during trial. It would look bad, like he thinks this is all funny or no big deal. Whether he listens to them or not is tbd. All JMO, of course.

Hi STAREYES, Good to see you posting! I think many locals are hampered by snow and playoffs today. I could tell my husband, "I am having an affair and I want a divorce." And he would absentmindedly reply, "Can we talk about this after the game?"
You brought up a really good observation:
JW was very smiley, almost "giddy" at second appearance. (Wonder why? Good news? Room upgade?)
These are just my impressions based on facial expressions and minimal physical maneuvers:
GWIV stares, focusing intently on every word, almost anticipatory and the only one to ask for bail. (I can not hear the muffled last words of his attorneys request at 1st appearance, but would love to read. ANYONE?)
AW did not show much emotion in the first appearance, but sometimes appeared as if she she was going to smile, but finally decided it was not a good idea or the gravity of the situation was now a reality.
AW The second appearance....wow, AW & RW lost their poker faces! Lots of talk about "no contact" by 3rd parties and RW doing the "over the top writing on her pants." AW's face showed a lot of stress and frustration.
GW3 1st hearing was stoic, pushed back from table and aloof, (same for Ky court appearance) but moved quickly to cover tattooed hand when prompted by attorney. At the 2nd, I see concern for the first time....yep he realizes things aren't going well, (the wings of his little bird just got clipped), and makes a lot of eye contact with RW. Noticeable weight loss.
RN Looks serious. Her attorney is quiet, dignified and serious in each court appearance. Same observation for the attorneys representing JW, GW3, GWIV, and AW
Please feel comfortable to present differing impressions...there are no wrong impressions.