Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Rubiconbob]

Is this against TOS ... good news ?

Accused child molester investigated in 2017 murders of Indiana teens: report

 

[MassGuy]

I hope, his bed has no mattress, just a wooden slab.
It would be great if he was placed in a room, that had bunk beds, where the upper bed, was very close to lower, and upper bed closed off.
Let JP experience being in a confined, uncomfortable space.
Guess he may also be placed into the smallest cell available.
MOO.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this, he’s a correctional officer at a maximum security prison in Michigan.

He’s also a former Marine.

I asked him if JP was kicked out of the Marines because he has a problem with authority and didn’t like being around other people, what is worse, prison or boot camp?

He laughed and said “prison will be absolute hell for a person like that.”

Good.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Barron tries to move forward after Jayme Closs' return

Barron tries to move forward after Jayme Closs' return

Barron schools superintendent Diane Tremblay said she still gets stopped on the street by people asking the same question: “How do we convince our kids that they’re safe?”

After initially being reluctant to accept offers of help from outside groups out of what she now describes as an “overprotective” instinct that made her want to limit the number of new faces kids would be exposed to in school, Tremblay said she eventually came to realize that people with experience and expertise could provide valuable insights into how to help students, staff and community members cope with the traumatic events of the past three months.

A crucial challenge involves restoring a sense of physical and psychological safety among students, she said.

“There is a lot of fear to manage,” Gay said. “There is a sense that, ‘Oh my goodness, this could happen to me.’ Even though the odds are astronomically rare, there is that idea that has opened up in children’s minds.”

While Tremblay already has been meeting with various school groups to see how they’re doing, she said administrators plan to do a formal assessment of all students and staff beginning on Jan. 29 so they can address the distinct needs of each person in recovering from the trauma they have endured.

Aside from the professional and spiritual counseling this community should take advantage of, I think there is a great way for them to come together and heal....defiantly. I love it when survivors are *defiant*, refusing to turn their power over forever to their tormentors.

I would love to see Barron come together with an annual drive/fund raiser for victims of violence. There are many, many organizations they could chose to contribute to. Maybe a different one each year, for that matter. They could hold an annual fund raiser that is a picnic, a talent show, whatever.

But the point is, the community can heal by coming together (like they did for Jayme), with defiance and a purpose!

I'm so impressed by the Citizens of Barron, and most especially their Hero Sheriff.

Defiance!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[24Brix]

The neighbors had no idea that they were shot, did they? The neighbors did not say ten shots or twenty shots. They said two shots, the second one louder. Would hitting a metal doorknob be louder outside than going through the glass into the body?

I do not discount them. But not hearing sirens is strange unless they were in some kind of topographical,situation which blocks the road noise. Things like that exist. I hear my neighbor’s radio half a mile away because the sound travels across the water.

The second shot would indeed be louder. How much louder I can't say and, of course, the hearing thresholds, etc., of the observers also can factor in. Shot 1 was directed into the house through an easily breakable window. The air motion (sound) was primarily distributed indoors. The house itself was acting like a silencer or, on a car's exhaust, a muffler, with the walls, doors, counter tops, furnishings, etc., all acting as baffles. With Shot 2, much more of the air motion remained outside of the house, in the open, with nothing to contain it. Much the same way that standing on the front porch and yelling, "Is anybody home?" will be somewhat louder to the neighbors than cracking the door a few inches and sticking your head in to yell. Shot 3, originating somewhere inside the house, would likely be the least loud of all.

WRT sirens, gunshots are significantly louder, if of shorter duration. Although I'd expect the witnesses to hear both once LE was in the driveway unless they already suffered from some form of hearing loss or something. Being so much younger, I'm betting JP heard the approaching sirens clearly even as he was loading JC into his car.

How loud is your gun

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm picturing it as an accommodation for their oddball son who can't get his act together. The family was apparently not using the house, so why not let him live there while he sorts himself out? Dad visits him on Saturdays to see how he is, give him pep talks, maybe a few bucks here and there. He ventures out once in a while to see his mother and grandparents and, other than the fact that he's very quiet and can't keep a job, he gives no one any cause for alarm.

Yes, that is how it appears, but it seems so strange to me. I can't imagine the family dynamics. Every unemployed, somewhat troubled 2o-something year old I've ever known has lived with his family or at least had roommates. I've heard of them having their own basement apartments or living in their parents garage and sponging off of the family that way. I've never heard of one being allowed to live alone in a remote house for 3 years with the remnants of the family's previous lives piled up around him, apparently with no expectations and no suspicions something was seriously wrong.

I would be requiring my son to either clean up the cabin or go see a counselor as a condition of him staying there. MOO.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'm sorry abi..I didn't see your reply until just now. We had friends come in right after I had posted.

Anyway... I wasn't referring to the typical home invasion burglaries. I have no doubt they have declined overall although your data is over 2 years old.

With the economy becoming much stronger now I hope it continues to decline overall in total.

Maybe what I should have said was the deadly home invasions have risen when the suspect enters a dwelling that is occupied at the time the home was invaded by either a stranger or strangers.

Imo in many typical burglary cases of 'get in and get out quickly when the home is unoccupied without being seen ' that MO has changed recently for strangers and we are seeing more who hit homes they know are occupied but no longer seem to care.

There have been several such horendous cases that had their own threads right here on WS but the search will reveal there have been even more.

I am away from my computer now but all one has to do is do a simple quick Google search of 'deadly home invasion' not 'home invasion.'

Immediately it will show multiple links from several local news sites depending on which states they happened in.

Some just happened in the past few weeks so these are cases that happened that were not only very recent but those who didnt make national news nor posted on WS.

These are deadly home invasions which resulted in the victims inside ...being injured or murdered.

Bblo.

I wanted to voice my support for what you've posted! It is absolutely true that crimes against people during or connected to the purpose of home invasions have changed drastically.

Sometimes, cash or material goods are not the focus at all, but hurting someone in the home, including so many abductions of adults, do not get reported.

On one hand, as a survivor of an extremely violent attack with some details the public would be " shocked" about-- he was a State Policeman, for example and had worked on a special Sex Crime unit for the entire state for a few years...
But, because the news media at that time, especially, still respected privacy of assault victims, it stayed under the radar except at the higher levels of the state's government.
On the other hand, how can we really KNOW how safe our community is if a rather mixed type of crime doesn't get any coverage because no one died, the person survived and didn't seek publicity in any way, we have strong HIPAA laws for medical privacy?

I'm not sure but am thinking that in the case of an adult being kidnapped for the purpose of assault, HIPAA laws are the reason this is not reported more often.
Before HIPAA, the news media had respect for victims and no news source I know of in the US would have named the victim, if the person survived.

Whew. This ia a very complicated subject with lots of overlapping boundaries. Still, victim's rights and privacy with HIPAA would be my overriding concern if I was the journalist handed a police report which contained mixed elements of both adult to adult abduction or assault in the home after what began as a home invasion.

Criminals used to want money or other valuables in an unoccupied house most of the time. Now, it seems they want to severely hurt or kill as well.

It's like the suburb is a sort of criminal hunting ground that no one really talks about, and many people still don't know

I don't know. I feel like this is such a bizarre situation. I'm having trouble even putting myself in the dad's place to understand. Why was JTP allowed to live alone in the house in Gordon amongst the family's old possessions? Why did the father visit every Saturday? Was he giving JTP money or food? Or did he think JTP had a job? Did JTP pay for anything?
We have too little info right now. MOO.

Respectfully, with what we know about JP's criminality now, what could his father have done with him that was better than an isolated cabin, as far out of harm's way as possible?

If you don't want a potentially dangerous person you may still love and feel responsible for in some ways to be in any stores, you bring what they need to them.

If it gets to the point where you can't take the stress of worrying about " what he might do up there all day every day with nothing but time and his mind ( his sick mind), wouldn't you possibly say " Get a job or your're going to have to leave here? Or, I won't bring groceries and pay the bills for electricity water, etc if you don't come up with employment I can verify in 2 weeks?

I think the jobs he had for one or two days were absolutely forced on him by his father. My rationale for thinking so is based on my knowledge of how, in a large private hospital system in a city, a huge auditorium will hold maybe 500-700 newly hired employees for one to two days of general orientation. They do this for legal reasons.

After the 2 days of sitting there listening to someone reading out of the huge handbooks you are holding, you are assigned to your department head for whatever additional supervised training or observation of competency is needed.
He NEVER EVER made it that far. He just sat in a room with the company's booklets. If that's working, my dog can play Mozart perfectly.

 

[Rosiebones]

I think that first responders arrive at calls that have violence associated with them and that the responders have no idea of how many, where they are and what may develop with no sirens and no lights. A police man was killed responding to a domestic violence call in the house across my back yard. I only realized it when I happened to look out my back door and saw a policeman crossing my back yard. Two state troopers knocked quietly on my front door and I called to them from my upstairs window. They actually told me to speak very quietly. We were all evacuated out of the neighborhood.
I doubt they arrived there with all their bells and whistles going off.

 

[crhedBngr]

Aside from the professional and spiritual counseling this community should take advantage of, I think there is a great way for them to come together and heal....defiantly. I love it when survivors are *defiant*, refusing to turn their power over forever to their tormentors.

I would love to see Barron come together with an annual drive/fund raiser for victims of violence. There are many, many organizations they could chose to contribute to. Maybe a different one each year, for that matter. They could hold an annual fund raiser that is a picnic, a talent show, whatever.

But the point is, the community can heal by coming together (like they did for Jayme), with defiance and a purpose!

I'm so impressed by the Citizens of Barron, and most especially their Hero Sheriff.

Defiance!

Amateur opinion and speculation

THIS^^^^

 

[Julia966]

Yes, that is how it appears, but it seems so strange to me. I can't imagine the family dynamics. Every unemployed, somewhat troubled 2o-something year old I've ever known has lived with his family or at least had roommates. I've heard of them having their own basement apartments or living in their parents garage and sponging off of the family that way. I've never heard of one being allowed to live alone in a remote house for 3 years with the remnants of the family's previous lives piled up around him, apparently with no expectations and no suspicions something was seriously wrong.

I would be requiring my son to either clean up the cabin or go see a counselor as a condition of him staying there. MOO.

Yeah, I would too, and we don't know what the visits with dad were like. Maybe dad was warning him that something has to change, or encouraging him to get counseling, or talking to him about going to college, or discussing his job search, or who knows. I might not be that they simply tolerated it, there may have been talk about next steps.

It's not all that weird to me that he was living there at age 21. What *is* weird to me is that the two boys were there alone as teenagers as one by one, the rest of the family moved out.

 

[The Dude]

The second shot would indeed be louder. How much louder I can't say and, of course, the hearing thresholds, etc., of the observers also can factor in. Shot 1 was directed into the house through an easily breakable window. The air motion (sound) was primarily distributed indoors. The house itself was acting like a silencer or, on a car's exhaust, a muffler, with the walls, doors, counter tops, furnishings, etc., all acting as baffles. With Shot 2, much more of the air motion remained outside of the house, in the open, with nothing to contain it. Much the same way that standing on the front porch and yelling, "Is anybody home?" will be somewhat louder to the neighbors than cracking the door a few inches and sticking your head in to yell. Shot 3, originating somewhere inside the house, would likely be the least loud of all.

WRT sirens, gunshots are significantly louder, if of shorter duration. Although I'd expect the witnesses to hear both once LE was in the driveway unless they already suffered from some form of hearing loss or something. Being so much younger, I'm betting JP heard the approaching sirens clearly even as he was loading JC into his car.

How loud is your gun

Just to add a note to this - sirens are up to the discretion of the deputy. They would not have necessarily had the sirens blaring from start to finish. They are primarily a means of traffic control. It's very plausible that the siren was only on for the duration of first seeing the Taurus' headlights to the time the deputy passed it.

 

[human]

Also it just dawned on me. it's a needle in a hastack. ( I had a Taurus for while, couldn't figure out a few times why my key wouldn't work to unlock it, DOH wrong taurus,same color),
Plus they have a hostage situation. They have to tread very carefully, in order to keep Jayme alive. This guy is a time bomb no telling what he will do if spooked. Especially if he thinks they are closing in on him.
So greatful she escaped.
Maybe it's better it worked out the way it did. Because if they had tracked him down before then, it might have ended worse for Jayme, and LE involved.
MOO.

How did they know that the Challenger and the black SUV were not the kidnapper’s?

I think the Taurus is a screw up on their part.

 

[gitana1]

Let me go off on a hypothetical tangent here - If Jayme hadn't escaped, and this whole thing was dragging on and on, and the family decides to hire a private investigator - would this PI be able to obtain any of the 'secret' info from LE? Like the car? Or would they not play nice together?

I don't know.

 

[Ragnarok]

I'm not sure what the neighbors knew by the time the FBI came to see them. They claimed they didn't know anything happened until later in the morning when the FBI knocked on their door. It's possible that the officers who came to see the neighbors said "Your neighbors Jim and Denise have been found dead and their daughter is missing-- is it ok to search your property?" It's possible they asked the neighbors questions like "Do you own any firearms?" With those two questions alone it would not be hard to guess James and Denise had been shot and there must have been at least 2 gunshots fired.

It's possible that the neighbors honestly thought they heard something that night but were not as awake as they thought. Perhaps their clocks were off more than they thought. Or it's possible they completely fabricated the story for some bizarre reason (false memory, desire for media attention, wanting to be helpful, I don't know why). No matter why they were incorrect about everything the fact is they were incorrect. Unsubstantiated. There were many other inconsistencies in the neighbor's story. I posted a list of some of the inconsistencies here:
AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28
I doubt the neighbors will be testifying in court to what they heard. They are the last source we should rely on for correct info. MOO.

What always got me with the neighbors was their seeing the school bus stop and stating they didn't children lived at the Closs residence. SMH

 

[dixiegirl1035]

LE in this town is changing their protocol because of Jayme

Agencies update child abduction protocol after Jayme Closs abduction

What a great article, it makes me yearn for more information and to educate myself on what law enforcement does these days in those situations.

I did note that they talked in the article about when a child goes missing that has autism, there is a protocol in place that everybody goes to bodies of water.

It is something that we always here on the threads scream about to our computers as to searching near the water when somebody with autism goes missing. Glad that is part of their protocols.

Thanks for sharing that article, and I look forward to more articles like this.

 

[The Dude]

<modsnipped quoted post and off topic response>

This is why I asked about the diaper thing:

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/diaper-box.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1286

Was this ever explained or discounted?

 

[girlhasnoname]

As mentioned in the Criminal Complaint, JP had removed the front License Plate. Only the bracket remained.

ETA: "Prior to arriving at the Closs home, the defendant stated he stopped on a side road somewhere east of Barron and removed both the front and rear license plate from his car which he described as an older red colored Ford Taurus, and placed the stolen license plate on the rear of his car."

Hah! I was just typing that explanation out myself. Glad I went to double check it.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Yes, that is how it appears, but it seems so strange to me. I can't imagine the family dynamics. Every unemployed, somewhat troubled 2o-something year old I've ever known has lived with his family or at least had roommates. I've heard of them having their own basement apartments or living in their parents garage and sponging off of the family that way. I've never heard of one being allowed to live alone in a remote house for 3 years with the remnants of the family's previous lives piled up around him, apparently with no expectations and no suspicions something was seriously wrong.

I would be requiring my son to either clean up the cabin or go see a counselor as a condition of him staying there. MOO.

Amen x 1000... the father could rent house out for 1000 a month... hell jake could get 2 roommates paying 300 a month and not have many money problems.

4 cars in driveway.. diminishing assets that cost 150 year to license ??? What , why not sale them...

Taxes and electric /water gotta be 3/5 grand a year .... parents weren’t phased..

Most parents would worry it would become party house... father must be making good money at something to be ok with setup..
Either that or he promised house to kids... did Erik go to Colorado strictly for lax pot laws??

The whole house is odd ... the garage looks newer but keep all cars outside to rust ??

 

[Julia966]

What always got me with the neighbors was their seeing the school bus stop and stating they didn't children lived at the Closs residence. SMH

Yeah. What was up with that? Maybe she got inside before the bus pulled away and they never actually laid eyes on her? Still, an odd thing to say, I agree. They made it sound like the Closses were some weird recluses.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Sometimes they get good information. Sometimes they don't.

From RadarOnline, OCTOBER 19, 2018:

“There is a report that someone allegedly knocked on the door and as the father went to answer it gunfire erupted through the door. That has not been confirmed yet as it’s an active investigation,” an FBI source exclusively told RadarOnline.com.

“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the dispatcher before being killed.

The source also added that the attack does not seem to have been random: “it was targeted. The perpetrator had the specific intent to leave the home with Jayme in their possession.”

Missing Jayme Closs Was Home When Abductor Shot Her Parents Dead, Source Claims

Rereading this, and just had another thought that sends chills up. I have heard on the Investigation Discovery Channel many 9-1-1 calls. When we listen to them, we know that the system actually picks up the sounds before the operator actually picks up the call, and while it is still ringing. I don't know how the system does it, but we see it and hear it again and again on the Investigation Discovery Channel.

I wonder if she called nine-one-one, and there was information and yelling on it before she even came on the line. Was she was not able to talk to the operator because the operator had not answered before he broke through the door? Or perhaps she just wanted to stay very very quiet and did not speak?

From reading the 11 page or so document, I cannot imagine the adrenaline and 911 interactions on that phone call with the dispatch operator. I assume that call will never be released even through the Freedom of Information Act until the trial?

 

[Gardener1850]

Respectfully, with what we know about JP's criminality now, what could his father have done with him that was better than an isolated cabin, as far out of harm's way as possible?

If you don't want a potentially dangerous person you may still love and feel responsible for in some ways to be in any stores, you bring what they need to them.

If it gets to the point where you can't take the stress of worrying about " what he might do up there all day every day with nothing but time and his mind ( his sick mind), wouldn't you possibly say " Get a job or your're going to have to leave here? Or, I won't bring groceries and pay the bills for electricity water, etc if you don't come up with employment I can verify in 2 weeks?

I think the jobs he had for one or two days were absolutely forced on him by his father. My rationale for thinking so is based on my knowledge of how, in a large private hospital system in a city, a huge auditorium will hold maybe 500-700 newly hired employees for one to two days of general orientation. They do this for legal reasons.

After the 2 days of sitting there listening to someone reading out of the huge handbooks you are holding, you are assigned to your department head for whatever additional supervised training or observation of competency is needed.
He NEVER EVER made it that far. He just sat in a room with the company's booklets. If that's working, my dog can play Mozart perfectly.

I wasn't meaning to blame the father. I was saying I don't have enough info to understand the living situation clearly. It seems bizarre to me. It seems off to me. Are you saying you think the father knew he was dangerous and unstable? Is that why JTP was allowed to live alone in the cabin? I'm not sure I have seen anything to indicate the father knew his son was a danger to others before this crime. But if I thought my son was potentially dangerous (as you said) I wouldn't let him live in my old house alone. If I didn't want him in stores (your words not mine) I would not let him live unsupervised in a vacant vacation property with access to many old family vehicles. I can only assume at this point that the father didn't think his son was a danger. Perhaps he only thought he was a little odd? But I still can't reconcile that idea with the unusual living situation. Maybe more info will come out and it will all make sense to me. I agree with you about the jobs. I think he only applied for work to be able to tell his family he was trying or he was somehow getting a government benefit that required he apply for jobs every so often. JMO.