CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[Tssiemer]

Thank you @Tortoise for those of us who need captions!!

Also, is there court tomorrow?

 

[MsFacetious]

No court tomorrow or on Friday.

 

[missy1974]

Oh wow! That's a lot of work! Thanks!

It is!! LOL I have started the defense opening statement... it's not easy! McGee talks fast ... and some of their experts... I spent a lot of time googling for proper spellings, and some I still can't find!!! I have to work part of the day tomorrow but will continue to work at it and will hopefully have it done in a day or 2 ;-)

 

[jash]

Oh my -- I just found out that this trial started. I'm furiously trying to catch up on the previous thread before new testimony begins this week.

Yep White Rabbit was prolific and astute. I hope more of us who posted back when this occurred, see this in our feed. I am thrilled to see it in the public forum, as well, so some newbie trial watchers can come join us as well.

SeaJay, Liz B., Jash, wendy101 & TLS51 or something similar, you’re all missed & I hope you check in with us. All these years later, finally a trial.

Hi Simply Caustic! So much collective time invested in this case. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out in the end.

Does anyone know where I can find the sideview video of the family that crossed the border? Not the one in popular circulation but the other one which I think was taken by a local business. Also, what about the Laura Ling E Investigates program, that seems to have dissappeaed off the internet as well - although an ad for Youtube TV implies you can watch it if you sign up for the service.

I just found a copy of the Laura Ling program I saved back in the day.

 

[TDoc72]

I bet he kicked himself a thousand times for not having kept Joey's phone to call Quickbooks on, to not only get the account deleted but also to make it appear Joey was still alive days later than he was.

IMO he might have weighed keeping the phone for your reason vs. possible phone pings that LE may be able to track

Re:the business card w/stuff on the back
What do people think about it? Is it JM’s or CM’s? What are the numbers all about?

 

[Force Ten]

IMO he might have weighed keeping the phone for your reason vs. possible phone pings that LE may be able to track

Re:the business card w/stuff on the back
What do people think about it? Is it JM’s or CM’s? What are the numbers all about?

It's Joseph's handwriting. It all looks like banks and account numbers to me. Chase, Cathy, Dan. There might be something to this. Supposedly he made a deposit that day. According to Dan's email to Summer, Joseph was supposed to send him money "owed" but he never got it, at least by the time he was expecting it. So did Joseph have this out for that reason and then.....what, I don't know.

 

[Force Ten]

But that would have been too small to have been around his neck originally, which is why I am interested in whether they have ever stated anything about how big the neck loop was. I suppose there's no way of knowing the size of his neck, unless someone knew his shirt collar measurements.

To my knowledge, they haven't stated how big around the loop was. Looking again with comparison to the hand in glove in one picture, the actual knot seems to be the size of a silver dollar and the inside opening the size of a quarter. So it seems this knot was not very tight or worked it's way loose.

 

[mrjitty]

It's Joseph's handwriting. It all looks like banks and account numbers to me. Chase, Cathy, Dan. There might be something to this. Supposedly he made a deposit that day. According to Dan's email to Summer, Joseph was supposed to send him money "owed" but he never got it, at least by the time he was expecting it. So did Joseph have this out for that reason and then.....what, I don't know.

Yes this is fascinating - as seemingly the card had slipped down out of sight.

I think JM might have been taking notes on his call to the Bank?

 

[mrjitty]

I think that’s why he picked such a tool to kill them and why it’s such over kill on the children as he has so much rage and hostility built up.

Agree - I think the overkill and degree of violence is a significant tell

 

[mrjitty]

Again, the more I'm thinking about this the more I think that what happened was that MSM ended up shipping a fountain or fountains out... and they wanted to be paid for that, from Joey. Joey probably paid CM already to do that, basically paying him in advance, so I think we will see this is where Joey "overpaid" CM or CM owed him money. Sequieda said something like they left it up to Joey on how to deal with Chase as far as percentage or whatever after they started doing some of what CM should have been doing.

I really hope they tie this all together quickly though, that testimony on Thursday did nothing but leave the impression that Joey and only Joey was responsible for paying MSM and that they would never have done business with CM, so how could he have owed them money. JMO

Yes

The problem is that the Prosecution is not allowed to interpret the evidence for us until closing.

So we have to wait for other witnesses to fill in the gaps.

I do worry a bit that the prosecution missed the chance to paint the big picture in the opening statement. We were told what the big evidence was, but I don't think they put it together into a story very well.

 

[MsFacetious]

It is!! LOL I have started the defense opening statement... it's not easy! McGee talks fast ... and some of their experts... I spent a lot of time googling for proper spellings, and some I still can't find!!! I have to work part of the day tomorrow but will continue to work at it and will hopefully have it done in a day or 2 ;-)

I have learned that there are words that google doesn't believe exist. My phone and computer insist limine, prosecutorial and probative are NOT words.

These are words you use a lot when writing motions or briefs! I've just had to learn to ignore the spell check. Which is difficult for me to do.

So, do the best you can and we will figure it out! I hope these attorneys are less annoying than the ones I recently transcribed. I could hardly stand it.

I think I'm in the wrong field, or maybe I'm just not excited about this week. LOL

 

[mrjitty]

I've seen in suggested elsewhere that JM had 2 laptops but only one was recovered

I guess he had a laptop on the road with him on the 4th

So the suggestion is CM stole this.

I suspect we are in for some major revelations when we get on to the digital witnesses

 

[mrjitty]

Only just now watching all of the Sequeida testimony.

There are some huge bombshells in there IMO and it changes my understanding of the relationship between CM, JM and MSM quite significantly.

It seems MSM regarded themselves as much more the senior partner in the venture, providing the workshop and all the fabrication. CM's role was to do electrics, plumbing, special aspects and then box and ship.

Towards the end CM was not always showing up to work, so MSM was shouldering almost all the workload. They briefed McStay on the situation. They felt the 3 way partnership was no longer workable.

MSM either received cheques from Joey in the mail or via CM. On a specific occasion it appears Sequeida senior had a blazing row with CM over a cheque intended for MSM that had not arrived. JM had told MSM that the money had been given to CM. CM told Sequeida senior that he had used the $$ for other materials. It is not clear how CM would have accessed those funds (e.g. was it part of a payment to himself or a cheque to MSM that went missing?)

I think this is very interesting because it creates a factual narrative that CM was increasingly exploiting JM but also that his involvement in the business was coming to an end.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes this is fascinating - as seemingly the card had slipped down out of sight.

I think JM might have been taking notes on his call to the Bank?

The info on the card looks to have been written at different times with different pens. Bank account numbers - BA - Bank of America and UB - Union Bank.

I'd say he might have had it to refer to when he called the bank (UB) - but the deleted cheque for $2495 that had cleared his account that day had been cashed at UB by Merritt on Feb 2nd, not deposited in Merritt's account.

Merritt also opened a new bank account on Feb 3rd so I expect that is all tied in with his scheme to deposit future cheques and hide them if Joey asked to see his statements.

What's also interesting about the loose business card is that it was found underneath the Trooper's back seats after they had rolled them back - not in the front passenger floorboard but underneath the rear seats.

The cheque book together with the clip of business cards (UB card topmost - who he phoned infrequently, but on that day at 11.51 am) in the wallet was found in the pocket at the back of the front passenger seat.

Can they show that Joey had referred to account numbers written on the loose card under the seats that day, during his phone call to the bank?

How would it get underneath the rear seats if presumably it was usually kept on the clip?

Screen shots of Trooper from day 8 part 1 testimony of Denys Williams.

1. Front floorboard
2. Front floorboard (2)
3. Rear pocket of front passenger seat where cheque book and clip of cards located
4. Rear seats
5. Sheet covering toys in back of vehicle
6. Toys located under sheet
7. Loose business card located after rear seats moved
8. Loose business card with account numbers

 

[Tortoise]

I'm guessing that those toys may have been presents for Joe Jr.'s birthday (I saw on a documentary that he was due to have a party on Saturday 6th) and they were covered with a sheet possibly to keep them as a surprise. That would also fit with Joey going to collect them from the seller and not Summer, so Joe Jr. wouldn't see them.

 

[mrjitty]

X of Sequeida

IMO the defence were playing pure silly buggers here.

First they wanted to create the idea that CM bought large amounts of business to MSM which is not relevant IMO

Second they wanted to X on the Paul Mitchell project financials. I really do not know why the Judge allowed this at all. The witness made clear he was not involved in the financial operations. So X-ing on this is simply silly. Then worse, they tried to X the witness on a cheque record possibly created by Joey McStay. Given the witness had never seen the document, this strikes me as crazy.

The Judge then shut it down, and apparently a bitter argument ensued but ultimately this X was not allowed.

The defence really needed to call a different MSM witness if they wanted to do this!

 

[mrjitty]

The info on the card looks to have been written at different times with different pens. Bank account numbers - BA - Bank of America and UB - Union Bank.

I'd say he might have had it to refer to when he called the bank (UB) - but the deleted cheque for $2495 that had cleared his account that day had been cashed at UB by Merritt on Feb 2nd, not deposited in Merritt's account.

Merritt also opened a new bank account on Feb 3rd so I expect that is all tied in with his scheme to deposit future cheques and hide them if Joey asked to see his statements.

What's also interesting about the loose business card is that it was found underneath the Trooper's back seats after they had rolled them back - not in the front passenger floorboard but underneath the rear seats.

The cheque book together with the clip of business cards (UB card topmost - who he phoned infrequently, but on that day at 11.51 am) in the wallet was found in the pocket at the back of the front passenger seat.

Can they show that Joey had referred to account numbers written on the loose card under the seats that day, during his phone call to the bank?

How would it get underneath the rear seats if presumably it was usually kept on the clip?

Screen shots of Trooper from day 8 part 1 testimony of Denys Williams.

1. Front floorboard
2. Front floorboard (2)
3. Rear pocket of front passenger seat where cheque book and clip of cards located
4. Rear seats
5. Sheet covering toys in back of vehicle
6. Toys located under sheet
7. Loose business card located after rear seats moved
8. Loose business card with account numbers

View attachment 165136 View attachment 165137 View attachment 165138 View attachment 165139 View attachment 165140 View attachment 165141 View attachment 165142 View attachment 165143

Yes - there is something deeply fishy about the state of the Trooper IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Things I am really interested in with the upcoming evidence

1. Analysis of JM's bank accounts and cheques.
2. The storage unit.

 

[asyousay]

The business card with all the writing on looks like different people wrote on it.

That can’t all be written by Joey as each line looks like different hand writing.

 

[Tortoise]

The business card with all the writing on looks like different people wrote on it.

That can’t all be written by Joey as each line looks like different hand writing.

It looks like Joey's handwriting if you compare it to the cheques he wrote also.

Note the similarities on the business card between the 6 and the 8 in the bottom number and in the crossed out number written underneath DAN at the top and the high downward stroke on the cross of the number 4. Also the h in Chase and Charles has a similar wave shape as it tails off.

I think it's just written on different days with info added.