Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2017-2019

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I think Step mom and Kyron did return to the truck to get his backpack he left. They then returned to the school and Kyron's backpack was in his room.
 
raja said:
I think Step mom and Kyron did return to the truck to get his backpack he left. They then returned to the school and Kyron's backpack was in his room.
Click to expand...
I just went to U Tube and found all the old interviews with Dr Phil, and the news stations and the parents and some of the very first reports. Lots of information that puts it all into perspective, not speculation about what happened. Terri tells Dr. Phil in her own words, people that witness him that day, talk about what they did or did not see. It was good to go back and see these again.
 
raja said:
Tunnel vision will never solve what happened to Kyron. If we learned anything from the abduction of Jayme C it is that when bad people have a plan to do bad things and they are not known by the victim or family it makes it very hard to connect them to the crime. Isreal Keys used this to his advantage by picking victims and places that he could not be connected to. It still surprises me to this day that everyone thinks that stepmom was such a mastermind criminal that she was able to get away with this even with all the agencies that were investigating her.
Click to expand...

I am not one who believes that stepmom was a “mastermind criminal”, nor do I believe I have “tunnel vision” for continuing to hope that stepmom steps forward with the truth.

I do believe she is a very emotionally disturbed woman who hired (with a lot of financial help from her adoptive parents) a very savvy defense attorney who perhaps was able to intimidate the state prosecutors.

Let’s review a few details about this case, keeping in mind that some are details given by stepmom herself in interviews:

A Refresher of Events from June 4, 2010:
♦8:00AM • School opened
→Kyron to take part in AM science fair & PM talent show
♦8:15AM • Ground floor • Kyron, stepmom & 18-month-old entered Kyron's classroom leaving his coat & backpack
→Stepmom took photo of Kyron near his science project wearing T-shirt with “CSI” logo
→All 3 viewed projects displayed in gym & nearby classrooms
→Basement level • Returned library books & visited Kyron’s 1st grade teacher in clasroom 104
♦8:15-8:45AM • Outside school: Person seen in or around F250
♦8:45AM bell • Stepmom & Kyron raced to see who could get to 2nd floor first
→Kyron used central stairs near main entrance
→Stepmom & 18-month-old chose side stairs near parking lot
→Terri walked to middle or top step—or halfway down hall—to wave goodbye to Kyron before vision of back of his head occurred near doorway to classroom 213
♦8:55AM Approximately • Witnesses saw stepmom, 18-month-old & Kyron walking down front sidewalk
♦10:00AM Approximately • Kyron was marked absent
♦Teacher had an email from stepmom excusing Kyron for doctor's appointment
♦3:46PM • School secretary called 911 to report Kyron was missing

Timeline for stepmom:
Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ 1st Fred Meyer • 9:00AM to 9:12AM
♦Stepmom has receipt with check-out time
♦LE has video of stepmom @ two FM locations, but was she alone?

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Starbucks • 9:14AM?
♦Coffee @ drivethru

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Magic Cleaners • 9:25AM?
♦Stepmom alone (by witness account) • Left 2 shirts

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ 2nd Fred Meyer • 9:30 to 10AM
♦Stepmom seen with 18-month-old sick in her arms sharing pictures of Kyron (by witness account)

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Michaels • 10:10AM?
♦Stepmom made a “quick stop” for craft supplies

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Albertsons • 10:10AM?
♦Albertsons submitted video & cooperated with LE
♦Stepmom first said she was here, later changed location to 2nd FM • could someone else have been here in her stead?

Allegedly on 6-4-10: the time stepmom cannot or will not account for: 10:10 to 11:39AM
♦Stepmom tried to soothe 18-month-old until meds kicked in by driving truck:
→For a few minutes
→Down HWY 30
→On back roads of NW Multnomah Co for approximately 90 minutes
→Stopping somewhere for approximately 30 of 90 minutes, but can’t remember exactly where

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Gym • 11:39AM to 12:40PM
♦18-month-old in gym daycare as stepmom completed a workout

Allegedly on 6-4-10 returns home • sometime between 12:45PM & 1:21PM
♦1:21PM approximately, stepmom uploaded photos taken earlier
→Emailed Kyron's teacher asking when project could be picked-up
→Mundanely emailed Desiree
♦2:00PM approximately • Kaine returned from work
♦3:35PM approximately • Kaine put shoes on 18-month-old & walked with her to bus stop to greet Kyron • Terri followed
♦A 3-mile race to school ensued when informed Kyron not on bus
♦Kyron missing for 6+ hours

After Kyron was confirmed missing:
♦F250 towed by LE twice (by stepmom’s father’s account)
♦Stepmom polygraphed 3 times (and interviewed for many hours):
→1st poly: 6-7-10: Failed
→2nd poly: 6-10-10: Did not complete
→3rd poly: 6-20-10: Failed
♦Allegedly, stepmom’s cell phone pings, computer records and bank receipts do not match with her timeline for June 4, 2010
♦Allegedly, ‘tracking records’ on stepmom’s cell phone showed research into area logging roads (done on 6-3-10)
♦Stepmom told Kaine (Kyron's father) she: “stumbled over questions about where Kyron went when he left school”
♦6-28-10•A female friend of 7 years moved into stepmom’s home remaining for 11 days until stepmom was evicted
♦6-30-10•Female friend purchased 1 of 3? burner phones
♦6-30-10/7-6-10•Female friend mixed drinks & wore thong as stepmom engaged in explicit sexting with a friend of Kyron’s father
→Overtures resembled MO in murder-for-hire plots
♦7-10 • Female friend refused to take polygraph (eventually took one years later)
♦Female friend’s condo searched via warrant • Cell phone & computer seized
♦Kaine revealed:
→LE had probable cause to show stepmom was involved in Kyron’s disappearance
→Stepmom was being investigated for involvement in violent crimes (at least two murder-for-hire plots)
♦6-30-10 • Stepmom hired criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze
♦8-15 • Stepmom: Theft of hand gun, Marysville, California/Failed to show for arraignment, warrant issued for arrest
♦1-16 • Stepmom gives People Magazine interview
♦9-16 • Stepmom does the Dr. Phil Show
♦12-16 • Stepmom stopped for speeding/Booked for failure to appear in 8-15/Pleaded not guilty/Misdemeanor trial in 5-17/All this only became known to the media in early 12-16
♦12-16 • Stepmom in late Dec., involved in domestic violence, restraining order issued & late Dec., stopped for a brake light or signal light not working/charged with possession of stolen vehicle/Charges dropped

So, stepmom as a mastermind criminal? Nah—except possibly in her own mind.

An emotionally disturbed woman who cannot explain to law enforcement her crucial 90 minute absence on the day her beloved “son” (as stepmom likes to repeat ad nauseam) vanished? Yes.

Israel Keyes? Isn’t blaming serial killers for every unsolved missing person’s case also a kind of “tunnel vision”?

Unfortunately, what also holds true, is that sometimes “bad people have a plan to do bad things” and they are known all too well to their victim.

And this from an article dated Sep 22, 2016 in Oregon Live:

Quote: Alexander provided a statement from the offices of the county district attorney and sheriff, as well. It reads, in full:

"Kyron Horman's parents and members of the public should know that the investigation into Kyron's disappearance is active, ongoing and includes a recent search effort. Ms. Horman has an open invitation to speak with MCSO.

"The Multnomah County District Attorney's was in contact with defense attorney Stephen Houze earlier this week and was advised that he continues to represent Terri Horman. Mr. Houze requests no contact with Ms. Horman by law enforcement absent his authorization and her consent."
Authorities conduct 'investigative search' regarding Kyron Horman case

How about this: why doesn’t stepmom make an appointment with her atty to accompany her to an interview with law enforcement? She could definitively end everyone’s speculation once and for all.

Or would a truthful interview result in self-incrimination? It’s easy to understand why it hasn’t happened to date, if that is the case. And why her atty does not advise such.

Sorry for the length.
 
Last edited:
Allegedly on 6-4-10: the time stepmom cannot or will not account for: 10:10 to 11:39AM
♦Stepmom tried to soothe 18-month-old until meds kicked in by driving truck:
→For a few minutes
→Down HWY 30
→On back roads of NW Multnomah Co for approximately 90 minutes
→Stopping somewhere for approximately 30 of 90 minutes, but can’t remember exactly where

And going back over the case DS is unaccounted for from her work, or farm, from 9:30 to 1pm that day. So I think this was the hand off to DS and then to someone else.
 
Skully said:
Allegedly on 6-4-10: the time stepmom cannot or will not account for: 10:10 to 11:39AM
♦Stepmom tried to soothe 18-month-old until meds kicked in by driving truck:
→For a few minutes
→Down HWY 30
→On back roads of NW Multnomah Co for approximately 90 minutes
→Stopping somewhere for approximately 30 of 90 minutes, but can’t remember exactly where

And going back over the case DS is unaccounted for from her work, or farm, from 9:30 to 1pm that day. So I think this was the hand off to DS and then to someone else.
Click to expand...
I believe that 9:30am to 1pm time comes from a law enforcement bulletin asking the general public if anyone saw her anywhere during that time period--that's if I'm recalling correctly.

I'm going to post a link (and a quote) to an old CNN article that still works:

Quote: The Oregonian reported that detectives have asked Spicher about her whereabouts June 4, the day Kyron was last seen. According to the newspaper, Spicher was doing gardening work for a Portland homeowner when she "abruptly left about 11:30 a.m." The homeowner tried reaching Spicher on her cell phone, the newspaper reported, but got no answer. Spicher returned to the house about 90 minutes later, the newspaper reported, citing detectives.
Friend of missing boy's stepmom appears before grand jury - CNN.com

So, even though the friend's actual missing time has never been confirmed, I lean toward believing it is co-incidentally about 90 minutes for the friend and is actually the approximate 90 minutes the stepmom was at the gym (11:39am to 12:40pm) and driving back to the flower farm to drop the friend off (around 12:56pm maybe) and continuing to her home, arriving somewhere just before 1:21pm (when it's known she posted the picture of Kyron in front of his science project).

This part is pure speculation, but I suspect that the friend took the F250 somewhere (to wash it or dispose of evidence or whatever) while the stepmom worked out and then the friend went back and picked stepmom and the baby up at the gym. Then the stepmom dropped the friend off at the flower farm for 1 pm and continued on to her home.

I spent a lot of time calculating driving times on Google maps--lol--and honestly it works out perfect.

If we look at the stepmom's missing time from 10:10am to 11:39am and consider that she was up near the bridge to Sauve Island in this time period, then calculate the driving times from that area to the flower farm where the friend was working, you'll find that stepmom had plenty of time to call her friend and arrange to pick her up.

Actually, the driving times from stepmom's known location at approximately 10:10am, driving to the bridge area around Sauve Island, and driving back to the flower farm, would give the stepmom about 30 minutes of free time to do something.

Now to leave my ramblings and get back more to your point--the thing is I believe they have at least some parts of the stepmom's timeline confirmed, especially her checking out at the first Fred Myer around 9:12am. (I think LE has video).

And driving times according to Google maps show that that would be tight--from the time all three of them walked out of the school after the 8:45am bell (and Kyron disappeared), and stepmom and baby make it to FM, there is virtually no time to spare.

However, the friend could have been at the school as late as about 8:55am, and still have time to drive to the flower farm where she was working. I believe they have confirmed that the friend did arrive at work by 9 am, her start time. Apparently, her vehicle was parked in the small employee parking lot and stayed there all day. The friend's cell phone was also known to have been left inside her vehicle. And that's very unusual--the friend was the type to have her phone on her person all the time.

It's rumor only that after LE requested people to come forward if they had seen the friend that day during the 9:30am to 1pm timeline, even a delivery person showed up saying he had seen her at the flower farm around 10am to 10:30am, and then other workers believe they saw her after that and also that she received a phone call--so she may have had her phone with her earlier and dropped it off in her vehicle before she left.

The lady that owned the flower farm happened to be giving a surprise buffet to her employees that day to thank them for all their hard work. Stepmom's friend didn't know about it until she got back at 1pm, but that's probably why she was even missed. The owner of the flower farm was really concerned when stepmom's friend couldn't be found. She tried standing on her step and calling out to her; she tried reaching her by cell phone; and she had other employees group together to do their own little search.

But, I think LE has the correct times nailed down, just never officially put it out to the media.

So if a hand off happened, I would speculate it happened between 8:45am and 8:55am. If someone and/or maybe two someones, arrived earlier, say 8:30am ish, and set about moving vehicles around and had everything set up, maybe Kyron got put in another vehicle for transportation to somewhere (that vehicle being driven by a third person), someone else went back to work for 9am, and someone went about setting up an alibi.

Where the positive thoughts for me really stop, though, is the stepmom's missing time between 10:10am and 11:39am. She very obviously alibied herself from the moment she left the school until 10:10am. Then she disappears only to resurface at her gym about 90 minutes later at 11:39am. I can't get that to make sense to me. Why would she do that?

I'm afraid something went wrong and instead of the drop off being completed, it ended in some terrible way that wasn't part of the original plan.

On my more positive days, I still have hope, though.
 
Who are the witnesses who saw Kyron walking out of the school with Terri and the toddler at 8:55 am? I don’t recall hearing that before.
Thank you.
 
Morag said:
Who are the witnesses who saw Kyron walking out of the school with Terri and the toddler at 8:55 am? I don’t recall hearing that before.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Unless Kyron is found and this case goes to trial, the identity of the witnesses will never be released to the public, unless they are leaked.

BTW, when the stepmom did the Dr. Phil show, she said that the school secretary saw Kyron at the top of the main stairs after she left. I wonder how that was appreciated and if there has been any follow-up with the school secretary? I haven't heard anything else about it.

Here is the link to support the above, at about 4:53 minutes in:

Quote: “ . . . and he was seen by the school secretary and another child after I left at that same location. . . .”

And another portion of video is interesting, also--the point where stepmom suddenly changes her story mid-stream. Moments before, she told Dr. Phil she had been standing on the top step, south side entrance; however, when Dr. Phil attempts to point the location out for his audience, she suddenly jumps in and "agrees" with her location as shown on the original diagram that Dr. Phil is using for reference (which is in the hallway in front of the main stairs). This was a diagram based on what Kyron's biological parents told Dr. Phil prior to stepmom's appearance.

Could she have forgotten what she originally said? I wonder why she would be all over the place like that with her statements.
 
Outstanding post. Thank you.

Truth Prevails said:
I am not one who believes that stepmom was a “mastermind criminal”, nor do I believe I have “tunnel vision” for continuing to hope that stepmom steps forward with the truth.

I do believe she is a very emotionally disturbed woman who hired (with a lot of financial help from her adoptive parents) a very savvy defense attorney who perhaps was able to intimidate the state prosecutors.

Let’s review a few details about this case, keeping in mind that some are details given by stepmom herself in interviews:

A Refresher of Events from June 4, 2010:
♦8:00AM • School opened
→Kyron to take part in AM science fair & PM talent show
♦8:15AM • Ground floor • Kyron, stepmom & 18-month-old entered Kyron's classroom leaving his coat & backpack
→Stepmom took photo of Kyron near his science project wearing T-shirt with “CSI” logo
→All 3 viewed projects displayed in gym & nearby classrooms
→Basement level • Returned library books & visited Kyron’s 1st grade teacher in clasroom 104
♦8:15-8:45AM • Outside school: Person seen in or around F250
♦8:45AM bell • Stepmom & Kyron raced to see who could get to 2nd floor first
→Kyron used central stairs near main entrance
→Stepmom & 18-month-old chose side stairs near parking lot
→Terri walked to middle or top step—or halfway down hall—to wave goodbye to Kyron before vision of back of his head occurred near doorway to classroom 213
♦8:55AM Approximately • Witnesses saw stepmom, 18-month-old & Kyron walking down front sidewalk
♦10:00AM Approximately • Kyron was marked absent
♦Teacher had an email from stepmom excusing Kyron for doctor's appointment
♦3:46PM • School secretary called 911 to report Kyron was missing

Timeline for stepmom:
Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ 1st Fred Meyer • 9:00AM to 9:12AM
♦Stepmom has receipt with check-out time
♦LE has video of stepmom @ two FM locations, but was she alone?

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Starbucks • 9:14AM?
♦Coffee @ drivethru

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Magic Cleaners • 9:25AM?
♦Stepmom alone (by witness account) • Left 2 shirts

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ 2nd Fred Meyer • 9:30 to 10AM
♦Stepmom seen with 18-month-old sick in her arms sharing pictures of Kyron (by witness account)

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Michaels • 10:10AM?
♦Stepmom made a “quick stop” for craft supplies

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Albertsons • 10:10AM?
♦Albertsons submitted video & cooperated with LE
♦Stepmom first said she was here, later changed location to 2nd FM • could someone else have been here in her stead?

Allegedly on 6-4-10: the time stepmom cannot or will not account for: 10:10 to 11:39AM
♦Stepmom tried to soothe 18-month-old until meds kicked in by driving truck:
→For a few minutes
→Down HWY 30
→On back roads of NW Multnomah Co for approximately 90 minutes
→Stopping somewhere for approximately 30 of 90 minutes, but can’t remember exactly where

Allegedly on 6-4-10 @ Gym • 11:39AM to 12:40PM
♦18-month-old in gym daycare as stepmom completed a workout

Allegedly on 6-4-10 returns home • sometime between 12:45PM & 1:21PM
♦1:21PM approximately, stepmom uploaded photos taken earlier
→Emailed Kyron's teacher asking when project could be picked-up
→Mundanely emailed Desiree
♦2:00PM approximately • Kaine returned from work
♦3:35PM approximately • Kaine put shoes on 18-month-old & walked with her to bus stop to greet Kyron • Terri followed
♦A 3-mile race to school ensued when informed Kyron not on bus
♦Kyron missing for 6+ hours

After Kyron was confirmed missing:
♦F250 towed by LE twice (by stepmom’s father’s account)
♦Stepmom polygraphed 3 times (and interviewed for many hours):
→1st poly: 6-7-10: Failed
→2nd poly: 6-10-10: Did not complete
→3rd poly: 6-20-10: Failed
♦Allegedly, stepmom’s cell phone pings, computer records and bank receipts do not match with her timeline for June 4, 2010
♦Allegedly, ‘tracking records’ on stepmom’s cell phone showed research into area logging roads (done on 6-3-10)
♦Stepmom told Kaine (Kyron's father) she: “stumbled over questions about where Kyron went when he left school”
♦6-28-10•A female friend of 7 years moved into stepmom’s home remaining for 11 days until stepmom was evicted
♦6-30-10•Female friend purchased 1 of 3? burner phones
♦6-30-10/7-6-10•Female friend mixed drinks & wore thong as stepmom engaged in explicit sexting with a friend of Kyron’s father
→Overtures resembled MO in murder-for-hire plots
♦7-10 • Female friend refused to take polygraph (eventually took one years later)
♦Female friend’s condo searched via warrant • Cell phone & computer seized
♦Kaine revealed:
→LE had probable cause to show stepmom was involved in Kyron’s disappearance
→Stepmom was being investigated for involvement in violent crimes (at least two murder-for-hire plots)
♦6-30-10 • Stepmom hired criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze
♦8-15 • Stepmom: Theft of hand gun, Marysville, California/Failed to show for arraignment, warrant issued for arrest
♦1-16 • Stepmom gives People Magazine interview
♦9-16 • Stepmom does the Dr. Phil Show
♦12-16 • Stepmom stopped for speeding/Booked for failure to appear in 8-15/Pleaded not guilty/Misdemeanor trial in 5-17/All this only became known to the media in early 12-16
♦12-16 • Stepmom in late Dec., involved in domestic violence, restraining order issued & late Dec., stopped for a brake light or signal light not working/charged with possession of stolen vehicle/Charges dropped

So, stepmom as a mastermind criminal? Nah—except possibly in her own mind.

An emotionally disturbed woman who cannot explain to law enforcement her crucial 90 minute absence on the day her beloved “son” (as stepmom likes to repeat ad nauseam) vanished? Yes.

Israel Keyes? Isn’t blaming serial killers for every unsolved missing person’s case also a kind of “tunnel vision”?

Unfortunately, what also holds true, is that sometimes “bad people have a plan to do bad things” and they are known all too well to their victim.

And this from an article dated Sep 22, 2016 in Oregon Live:

Quote: Alexander provided a statement from the offices of the county district attorney and sheriff, as well. It reads, in full:

"Kyron Horman's parents and members of the public should know that the investigation into Kyron's disappearance is active, ongoing and includes a recent search effort. Ms. Horman has an open invitation to speak with MCSO.

"The Multnomah County District Attorney's was in contact with defense attorney Stephen Houze earlier this week and was advised that he continues to represent Terri Horman. Mr. Houze requests no contact with Ms. Horman by law enforcement absent his authorization and her consent."
Authorities conduct 'investigative search' regarding Kyron Horman case

How about this: why doesn’t stepmom make an appointment with her atty to accompany her to an interview with law enforcement? She could definitively end everyone’s speculation once and for all.

Or would a truthful interview result in self-incrimination? It’s easy to understand why it hasn’t happened to date, if that is the case. And why her atty does not advise such.

Sorry for the length.
Click to expand...
 
Truth Prevails said:
Unless Kyron is found and this case goes to trial, the identity of the witnesses will never be released to the public, unless they are leaked.

BTW, when the stepmom did the Dr. Phil show, she said that the school secretary saw Kyron at the top of the main stairs after she left. I wonder how that was appreciated and if there has been any follow-up with the school secretary? I haven't heard anything else about it.

Here is the link to support the above, at about 4:53 minutes in:

Quote: “ . . . and he was seen by the school secretary and another child after I left at that same location. . . .”

And another portion of video is interesting, also--the point where stepmom suddenly changes her story mid-stream. Moments before, she told Dr. Phil she had been standing on the top step, south side entrance; however, when Dr. Phil attempts to point the location out for his audience, she suddenly jumps in and "agrees" with her location as shown on the original diagram that Dr. Phil is using for reference (which is in the hallway in front of the main stairs). This was a diagram based on what Kyron's biological parents told Dr. Phil prior to stepmom's appearance.

Could she have forgotten what she originally said? I wonder why she would be all over the place like that with her statements.
Click to expand...

BBM....

Terri can't keep her lies straight.
 
raja said:
Tunnel vision will never solve what happened to Kyron. If we learned anything from the abduction of Jayme C it is that when bad people have a plan to do bad things and they are not known by the victim or family it makes it very hard to connect them to the crime. Isreal Keys used this to his advantage by picking victims and places that he could not be connected to. It still surprises me to this day that everyone thinks that stepmom was such a mastermind criminal that she was able to get away with this even with all the agencies that were investigating her.
Click to expand...


There is no "tunnel vision" by anyone in this case. The facts in Kyron's disappearance are not even remotely similar to the Jayme Closs kidnapping and the murders of her parents. And there is absolutely no evidence that a serial killer was involved with Kyron's disappearance either. There is ample reason to suspect Terri Hormon and that's why she's the main POI.
LE and Kyron's parents did not just pull their opinions on Terri's guilt out of a hat. There was a very thorough investigation done in Kyron's case.
Terri is a manipulative, cunning grifter, and she had already shown signs of psychopathology and alcoholism long before she became Kyron's stepmother. She has always been very adept at using people,especially men,for financial support, and she portrayed herself as someone she wasn't.
 
EllaMae said:
There is no "tunnel vision" by anyone in this case. The facts in Kyron's disappearance are not even remotely similar to the Jayme Closs kidnapping and the murders of her parents. And there is absolutely no evidence that a serial killer was involved with Kyron's disappearance either. There is ample reason to suspect Terri Hormon and that's why she's the main POI.
LE and Kyron's parents did not just pull their opinions on Terri's guilt out of a hat. There was a very thorough investigation done in Kyron's case.
Terri is a manipulative, cunning grifter, and she had already shown signs of psychopathology and alcoholism long before she became Kyron's stepmother. She has always been very adept at using people,especially men,for financial support, and she portrayed herself as someone she wasn't.
Click to expand...
BBM - I wish I could give this at least a dozen likes.

Thank you, EllaMae.
 
Knox, neither link to the emails works.

Good case review, here, worth a click on the OregonLive link, thanks!
 
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