Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Julia966]

This is interesting. I'd like to know what conditions precipitated what appears to be significant hair loss by the age of 21 in the photos when he had not shaved his head. I've never seen any other male with that much hair loss at 21 years old.

While it looks to me like male pattern baldness which is usually a genetic factor in men, it might not be, or might not ONLY be that one thing. There are hormonal factors, malnutrition, lack of certain vitamins and minerals, protein deficiency, and trichotillomania ( deliberate and repetitive hair pulling from the scalp) which can also cause hair loss.

There's ALSO the weird possibility that he had hair but shaved it back on the sides to attempt to alter his looks to appear older. Most guys would not do this, but he's not " most guys" .

Yup, high levels of testosterone have been linked to both baldness and aggressive, impulsive behavior, but I believe both associations, if they exist at all, are not well understood.

 

[ilovechili]

Yup, high levels of testosterone have been linked to both baldness and aggressive, impulsive behavior, but I believe both associations, if they exist at all, are not well understood.

I think even though all of the things that can be looked at, including high testosterone, could contribute to aggressiveness and more, it only goes to trying to understand and changes nothing about his guilt.

I do think overall however the standard in the US of mental competency and did they know right from wrong and he clearly did by his actions, and the fact there is evidence it was planned, is a good standard.

While it might help to understand maybe years of his having perhaps a high aggressiveness or something going on, it will only help to understand and perhaps help temper in the future some individuals and not in any defense.

I do get you were not saying that in any way, just talking about what such things can cause, like high testosterone--I am just jumping off the remark a bit.

Because he knew what he was doing. So as far as any sentencing, etc., it makes no difference.

But I, as any of us, would like to understand how such a person who could do such a thing gets to that point.

 

[Rhenish]

I wonder how far along those defense lawyers have gotten? Thirty (30) boxes of evidence. Plus all the evidence collected at the second crime scene. Or, would the horror-house be third? And the red Taurus be the second?

I hope they can convince this criminal that a trial would be really bad for him, his family, and his victim. Would they even try to appeal to any sense of decency remaining in him?

imho they really have nowhere else to go:

* JTPs confession
* The murder weapon
* The remaining ammo, right where he told LE it would be
* The boots. And any corroborating prints at The Closs home. The first crime scene.
* JTPs detailed description about that crime scene, see confession

Two (2) Life-in-prison terms, No possibility of parole. ETA: That would be my offer to them.

*Note to self. I may get extreme for some of you. IMO Death By Firing Squad should be offered to this one heinous human being. Would something like that convince him to plead guilty? Like on Feb 6th?

Would the State Assembly be willing to enact this one time for a death penalty? Would their constituents be wanting to make this happen?

I am not usually very convinced about the death penalty. I have seen people released from life sentences (thankfully) using the same technology they're using for our past victims. Just like the Jenny Bastian case. 32 years and justice makes a calling.

Would that have even made a difference in this criminal's plans? We need to realize that there should be exceptions, to every law. I hope this is okay to put down in words. Please feel free to delete if too off topic. Thank You, Jim

I really want to know what evidence is in those thirty boxes. I think they may possibly contain a lot of answers to many of our questions. I really want to know what they may have located on any computers that Jake had access to, if anything. I also really, really, really what to know the motive the Defense Attys. alluded to that will come out, or at least what they will present as I think the motive will tie into his defense strategy, something along the lines of ..... he is a crazy, narcissistic, psychopathic and lonely poor lost soul damaged by blah blah blah.

 

[bizzle2]

You hear people saying that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I had a Criminal Justice professor that swore it was a deterrent, at least for that one criminal because he would never re-offend again. I'm not sure anything is a deterrent to these people that kill without a second thought. They don't seem to care about much. They do always seem to fight really hard for their lives. Timothy McVeigh is the only person I can recall that skipped appeals and seem to want the death penalty. There really are people that never need to be in Society again. EVER.

Statistics say it's not.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yup, high levels of testosterone have been linked to both baldness and aggressive, impulsive behavior, but I believe both associations, if they exist at all, are not well understood.

Thank you so much for understanding what I was saying.
Not that his heinous crimes were due to just hormonal imbalance, but that I believe he possibly has some visible signs of abnormally high testosterone hormone levels. We know there's a relationship between excess testerone, a hormone which males produce and aggression.

Here's a clinical but very concise and accurate NIH summation on the role of testosterone on male aggression:
Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior in Man

To summarize, the results show that there is a definite link between high testosterone levels and aggressive behavior. The NIH is the National Institutes Of Health, and as the largest biomedical research agency in the world. It is an extremely reliable source for medical information.

This is why men trying to add muscle mass " bulk up" or " get cut" using anabolic steroids that increase their DHT levels ( a fractionated part of Testosterone) may have what is commonly referred to by the public and media as "roid rage". https://gomedsmart.com/hair-loss/can-anabolic-steroids-cause-hair-loss-2/

I do not know, but I do wonder if JP may have been using steroids in an attempt to " bulk up". He may also have had normal DHT without any anabolic steroid use, but elevated testosterone, which are not the same. .

Aside Note but on this topic- To present this in a fairly and balanced way, I need to state that women with normally functioning ovaries produce a very small amount of testosterone.
My observation is my opinion, but is based on a long career as R.N.

Respectfully, IMO, and submitted for consideration when we are discussing male aggressive criminal behavior, which we are discussing in this case on this thread.

 

[Mandie K]

Ohh, please no rotten tomatoes, but I don't think the photos of the house show that anyone picked up things or cleaned in that house.
We would NOT see dust if present in the photos because they aren't that sharp, being taken possibly through a window or at least not close up.
I see simply random " stuff" in the living room, clutter on sofa and table and floor area. The carpet looks dirty to me. The kitchen looks bare bones appliances and unused IMO.

We don't know what JP may have made JC do, but IMO, I really do not think cleaning the parts of the house we can see in the photos or nail polish application entered into things.

If the white thing with a screen is a TV, I'm not sure why crock pots were left in front of a TV instead of 4 feet away in the kitchen. Whether they contained food and were dirty or clean probably makes the difference, as they may have left food for JP and after he ate it, he swished some water around in their cookers and placed them near the front door for them to either pick up or him to return ( I expect his dad would have picked them up on his next visit)..

The basement, or what I assume is a basement because there's a dehumidifier unit, is a jumble of discarded miscellaneous random items, it appears to me. I do not think anyone was in the basement, it was just there and it happened to be photographed.

JMO, respectfully.

I thought I was the only one thinking this way!!

 

[OhThatVictoria]

He also was apparently wearing the gloves when he loaded the gun, to prevent fingerprints or DNA being found at the scene. Imo

Yes, but . . . He had to eliminate pre-existing prints from handling the gun, that is whoever (Edit to add: historically) handled the gun (for ex, his Father).

Regarding the acetone (nail polish remover), I read that it will remove Crazy Glue which people will sometimes put on their fingers in an attempt to eliminate finger prints. Just thinking out loud of possibilities.

Then there’s the possibility that JP allowed JC to do her nails. It could have been left over in the house from Sister or Mom.

 

[ilovechili]

I really want to know what evidence is in those thirty boxes. I think they may possibly contain a lot of answers to many of our questions. I really want to know what they may have located on any computers that Jake had access to, if anything. I also really, really, really what to know the motive the Defense Attys. alluded to that will come out, or at least what they will present as I think the motive will tie into his defense strategy, something along the lines of ..... he is a crazy, narcissistic, psychopathic and lonely poor lost soul damaged by blah blah blah.

Here is some food for thought I don't think I had thought about by now. I have used banker's boxes, they are not huge generally (although I am sure there are different sizes) but they are standardly used for papers. A common use is end of the year clearing out file cabinets of payroll records, files, paperwork, etc. Sure, they could put some small things in them such as a hat, a bottle of polish remover (they didn't, just saying), fill one with clothing, etc. but generally they mean paperwork.

Sooo, could this remark relate to that many pages of interviews, evidence, papers at the home, etc.? I took it to mean they removed 30 boxes from the defendant's home so probably not but I am just saying the tote with weights did not go in these boxes, something else did. We have been misled before, is he talking about all of the discovery during the initial investigation the agencies had? In Barron. Maybe he asked about discovery and was told we have 30 boxes...

Thinking out loud... But it sounded like it was all from Gordon....

 

[OhThatVictoria]

In boasting of the perfect crime, I’m curious why JP didn’t pick up the shell casings . . . Too much going on, I imagine?

 

[Julia966]

In boasting of the perfect crime, I’m curious why JP didn’t pick up the shell casings . . . Too much going on, I imagine?

If he had, he would have likely been caught when the police arrived, so too bad he didn't! But since there were no prints on them, they turned out to be useless anyway. It was the perfect crime except, you know, for the fact that a terrified 13 year old girl out-smarted him

 

[Rhenish]

Here is some food for thought I don't think I had thought about by now. I have used banker's boxes, they are not huge generally (although I am sure there are different sizes) but they are standardly used for papers. A common use is end of the year clearing out file cabinets of payroll records, files, paperwork, etc. Sure, they could put some small things in them such as a hat, a bottle of polish remover (they didn't, just saying), fill one with clothing, etc. but generally they mean paperwork.

Sooo, could this remark relate to that many pages of interviews, evidence, papers at the home, etc.? I took it to mean they removed 30 boxes from the defendant's home so probably not but I am just saying the tote with weights did not go in these boxes, something else did. We have been misled before, is he talking about all of the discovery during the initial investigation the agencies had? In Barron. Maybe he asked about discovery and was told we have 30 boxes...

Thinking out loud... But it sounded like it was all from Gordon....

Yes, I think the boxes will likely contain mostly paperwork regarding discovery, I agree, given that I think a lot of the discovery will a lot. It will be interesting to find out how much if anything is new.

 

[ilovechili]

Statistics say it's not.

I agree that it likely would not be to a serious psychopath. But I do think it deters those that are teetering between doing right and wrong and walking an edge maybe. To each their own but statistics mean nothing to me. But it does probably stop some people. Ted Bundy it would not have. Jeffrey Dahmer got no death penalty (by a court) but I don't think it would have stopped his uncontrollable impulses. I do think it may deter some walking the edge who are not pyschopaths. Most people will speed to a point because the worst consequence is a ticket and it is not a serious offense. The more severe the penalty, it does stop some... If that makes any sense.... jmo.

But that is apples to oranges too...

It will always be a debate but if there is no death penalty there for sure should be some that never ever have a chance of walking the streets again. And too often we are seeing life not being life in prison either...

again jmo.

 

[1987]

why did he have to eliminate pre existing finger prints from the gun? he wasn't leaving the gun so prints on it wouldn't matter? I understand eliminating from the shells, he was leaving the empty shells.

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, I think the boxes will likely contain mostly paperwork regarding discovery, I agree, given that I think a lot of the discovery will a lot. It will be interesting to find out how much if anything is new.

I do too. This sounds like when you ask the opposing counsel how much they need to photocopy and how long it will take to provide the discovery. Sometimes the court will even delay the next proceeding so the defense has time to get it all and review the voluminous "evidence". I wonder if we have a bit of a confusion by the press there or a bit of misinformation--it sounds like it all came out of the Gordon House.

Not so sure...

 

[ilovechili]

why did he have to eliminate pre existing finger prints from the gun? he wasn't leaving the gun so prints on it wouldn't matter? I understand eliminating from the shells, he was leaving the empty shells.

Great point. In case he was caught, so he did not implicate daddy? Or himself?

 

[1987]

Great point. In case he was caught, so he did not implicate daddy? Or himself?

just seems to me if they got close enough to get the gun then they would know where it belonged. if he had discarded it I might see that different. also on the potential that if he got pulled over he was willing to shoot LE how exactly was he going to do that in a car with a long gun....doesn't add up to me. I cant imagine someone using nail polish remover on a firearm, if he hadn't got caught how would he have explained damage on the gun to dad...

only some of that was in reply...I got distracted thinking.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Statistics say it's not.

Stats say it is stats’s say it isn’t... I bet u can find both ...

Why would u not atleast keep it as a haggle point... I’m sure a lot would fight it and accept life....

 

[Rubiconbob]

Great point. In case he was caught, so he did not implicate daddy? Or himself?

I think deep down he knows himself...
not the biggest success in life .. and likely would fail or based on history... pull it off for about 2 days... at some point cops would have gun...

Think if Jake didn’t off James right away, there’d have been a struggle at some point...

 

[chili367]

I do not know, but I do wonder if JP may have been using steroids in an attempt to " bulk up". He may also have had normal DHT without any anabolic steroid use, but elevated testosterone, which are not the same. .

Aside Note but on this topic- To present this in a fairly and balanced way, I need to state that women with normally functioning ovaries produce a very small amount of testosterone.
My observation is my opinion, but is based on a long career as R.N.

Respectfully, IMO, and submitted for consideration when we are discussing male aggressive criminal behavior, which we are discussing in this case on this thread.

While T levels might have played a factor I think the ongoing psychological stressors and the ever important triggering event (what could it be?) had more to do with it.

(He sure didn't look like he was roided up )

 

[Rubiconbob]

just seems to me if they got close enough to get the gun then they would know where it belonged. if he had discarded it I might see that different. also on the potential that if he got pulled over he was willing to shoot LE how exactly was he going to do that in a car with a long gun....doesn't add up to me. I cant imagine someone using nail polish remover on a firearm, if he hadn't got caught how would he have explained damage on the gun to dad...

only some of that was in reply...I got distracted thinking.

If his dad is neurotic about guns being pristine... you can nail polish your guns/ nail polishe remover to take out imperfections... although much prefer other sluethers answer that jake was doing nails