OH OH - Amy Mihaljevic, 10, Bay Village, 27 Oct 1989

good point, but I wouldn't tend to think this was the issue in this cas

My point of contention would be that the body was transported both from the initial contact site and to the recovery site unless they had a parent perhaps help cover up the crime,

plus she was seen with an unknown adult male

Now that I've had chance to read a couple articles about this case. I will say I'm a bit shocked that investigators way back in 89 didn't put 2&2 together about the nature center. Is there DNA evidence in this case? If the science teacher is a main suspect, why dont they just gather his DNA and find out for sure?

If not, I also would wonder if the telephone guy could be a red herring, like the "tape recorder man" was in the case of the Lyon sisters?
 
That's disturbing. Always knew the killer might come around and get involved, but not that these crimes attract all the other creeps as well. As you may know, something similar happened here at WS recently - a member who followed a child sex murder case here was arrested for child *advertiser censored*. Creepy.

In Amy's case, the "teacher" suspect looks so strong, but there are still one or two things about him that may not fit.

In the years after her murder, the consensus (rumored to have been LE's) was the person who later committed suicide. As you say, they apparently ruled him out.

Do you think he has killed again? Should we be looking for other similar crimes, possibly in another area?

Here's a more recent, local case that's similar. This person is too young to be the suspect and he didn't kill his victim, but the personal and geographic profile are very similar - young guy in his 20's who lived in a town west of Cleveland who drove into W. Cleveland to stalk, kidnap, etc.

Lorain man indicted in rape, kidnapping case in Cleveland, attempted abduction in Elyria

He had also attempted to abduct a young girl from her home in Elyria, OH. IIRC in the news media at the time there were other reports of similar attempts in communities just south of BV. This guy did his work at night. Amy's killer worked during the day, maybe worked unsupervised or was unemployed, allowing him to work during the day.

Here's a map showing some of the communities west of BV, including Amherst, where the teacher suspect in Amy's case had recently begun working. The area where her body was left is south.

Google Maps

I dont know if I would really want to enter into the realm of thinking that just because someone takes an interest in a case, that they may be a killer.

This would suggest that anyone who watches forensic files or makes a post on a crime forum should be a crime suspect?

I really think the other case you are referring to is a rarity.
 
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In MOO, the phone calls are classic grooming: 1) to an unsuspecting 9 - 12 yr old, it seems friendly 2) they know your mom, so it's ok; they aren't a stranger 3) the present/shopping ruse keeps them calm for the trip from the contact point to where ever the crime is going to go down; they don't have anything to be scared about yet, because they are just going shopping
 
In MOO, the phone calls are classic grooming: 1) to an unsuspecting 9 - 12 yr old, it seems friendly 2) they know your mom, so it's ok; they aren't a stranger 3) the present/shopping ruse keeps them calm for the trip from the contact point to where ever the crime is going to go down; they don't have anything to be scared about yet, because they are just going shopping

Seems like a pretty risky move for a kidnapper to pull. I do think its possible, but the story of the man greeting Amy by touching and whispering in her ear seems a bit off to me.

Before going any further with this case. I would find out who the boys standing on the corner were, and check their DNA.
 
That's disturbing. Always knew the killer might come around and get involved, but not that these crimes attract all the other creeps as well. As you may know, something similar happened here at WS recently - a member who followed a child sex murder case here was arrested for child *advertiser censored*. Creepy.

I wasnt aware that happened here, but I wouldnt doubt it, like you and I had discussed before they find ways to keep up on things that interest them, on a forum like this with this many members, its also not only possible, but likely that some people are here because they themselves are respnsible for crimes, and follow them through these forums.

Sad reality of it .

In Amy's case, the "teacher" suspect looks so strong, but there are still one or two things about him that may not fit.

In the years after her murder, the consensus (rumored to have been LE's) was the person who later committed suicide. As you say, they apparently ruled him out.

The same reasons that the suspect doesnt seem to fit , are most liely the same reasons that LE hasnt charged him with anything yet , even if they are licking their chops with everything else they have . You sometimes have to put a suspect on the back burner to continue pursuing leads that keep coming in .

Do you think he has killed again? Should we be looking for other similar crimes, possibly in another area?

I cant say for sure, and to do so would be purely speculative, but its without a doubt not out of the realm of possibility for this individual .

Why we havent caught him doing something similar can be due to several factors, 1) He died, or was rendered physically incapable of doing so ever again 2) He was in jail 3) He found another means to satiate his deviant desires, 4) He stopped, as they sometimes do , theyll "change" , or the act satisfied some need withing the offender.

Human behavior is usually only as consistent at the environment, its in at the time, in other words, if things change for him he may or may not decide to act on his urges again, though the underlying psychological need may always remain

A good example of situation affecting existing behavior is Ted Bundy, who went from the Smoothest killer on earth when he was in his element , to a maniacal killer who randomly blugeoned sleeing co-eds in their beds, before opportunisticly abducting raping and killig 12 yo Kim Leach while on the run .

The motive in this case was IMO purely sexual, the killing of the victim was to eliminate a chance hed be identified .

So if he found a way to quell his sexual urges, perhaps through surrogate means (child to molest, or a significant other who is petit and looks like a child) or wasnt able to anymore, or in rarer cases just didnt want to, it wouldnt surprise me .

In general for a short time you can link cases through MO because it will usually change with failure, success, and situational, and psychological factors. Thats why I always say look at, but dont try to link cases, let eveidence in each case speak.

This victim was killed by a penetrating wound to her neck most likely, its a horrible, painful, and and very bloody way to die, but its also the 2nd most used means (Strangulation was #1) but so was Amber Hagerman, So was Laura Smither ..It doesnt mean they are linked, and the last 2 were in Texas a year apart, but they dont appear to be linked.

Jennifer Schuett was abducted at age 8 out of her bedroom window almost killed by the same means raped her throat was slashed and she was left to die in a field, but her attempted murderer Dennis Bradford was arrested before hanging himself , hes not considered a suspect in any of the other crmes mentioned , and they all occurred in Texas within 3 years of each other.

Here's a more recent, local case that's similar. This person is too young to be the suspect and he didn't kill his victim, but the personal and geographic profile are very similar - young guy in his 20's who lived in a town west of Cleveland who drove into W. Cleveland to stalk, kidnap, etc.

Lorain man indicted in rape, kidnapping case in Cleveland, attempted abduction in Elyria

He had also attempted to abduct a young girl from her home in Elyria, OH. IIRC in the news media at the time there were other reports of similar attempts in communities just south of BV. This guy did his work at night. Amy's killer worked during the day, maybe worked unsupervised or was unemployed, allowing him to work during the day.

This is a differnt animal all together, in the Cleveland case, this is the type who most likely surveiled his victim for a time , probably a few days or even weeks before he decided to break in to her house and kidnap her.

This type of individual is actively looking for a specific victim type so they may go to a certain area where they know its a higher likelihood theyll encounter the specific victim type they are loking for .

For Ex, if the offender has a preference for young black females, but he lives in a predominantly white community , he may travel to find the victim type he is looking for .

Otherwise why not just grab a victim off the streets?... Once he knew where he could find exactly what he wanted he was willing to travel and break in to kidnap this child from her own bed. WAY more brazen that this individual in Amy's case, luckily she was returned alive .

Differnt type of Criminal, though no less

Here's a map showing some of the communities west of BV, including Amherst, where the teacher suspect in Amy's case had recently begun working. The area where her body was left is south.

Google Maps

Again remember were going off speculation based of data from the FBI, its possible she was transported further away than I suggested earlier , killers in the past have put victims in the trunk, I know of one casee where the killer of 3 girls put made the victims get into a large rubbermaid tub in his trunk to avoid evedence transfer .

But Im fairly sure he lived either in the relative area where she was Abducted, or where she was found , But again I could be wrong.
 
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Now that I've had chance to read a couple articles about this case. I will say I'm a bit shocked that investigators way back in 89 didn't put 2&2 together about the nature center. Is there DNA evidence in this case? If the science teacher is a main suspect, why dont they just gather his DNA and find out for sure?

If not, I also would wonder if the telephone guy could be a red herring, like the "tape recorder man" was in the case of the Lyon sisters?

You have to understand in an investigation, its not like information and evidence all comes in at once, it could be days, weeks, months, even years, in some cases never, for evidence to come in.

Its a ton of legwork, chasing dead ends, talking to people who usually dont want to talk to you, intervieweing people....Re--interviewing people, trying to track down someone who al l the sudden left the area, checking Alibi's, looking for witnesses, questioning those witnesses, waiting for reports, waiting for labs, running backgrounds on suspects, youre working against the clock to get something in the first few days especially if theres a chance of a simgle offender committing another crime , you nay have to deal with the media, you have to work with thvictims family.

You then have the pleasure of advising a shocked parent that their child (who you may hae one just like) has been found dead, then begin processing that crime scene ,

In the mean time your wife is expecting any day now, your son is struggling in school, You have a nagging shoulder injury you need to get looked at, you havent been on a vacation in 5 years, you live on junk food and coffee, and in the end....

OH and here comes another file across your desk, when you were supposed to go home 4 hours ago

People forget the human aspect of it on Law enforcements end.

I dont beleive ther was DNA in this case, there may be but it is usually hard to get from a victim that has been discarded for such a long time out in the elements , unless recovered from victims clothing at that point the remains were most likely largely skeletal .

Pertaining to the phone calls, its also possible they had nothing to do with this crime at all, even if it was some pervert on the ther end trying to meet a victim themselves., and that Amy was simply a random "grab" from some deviant that happened to be near the school that day.

It cant be ruled out per se', but given the sequence of events, I feel she knew she was meeting someone, she even made a vague statement about it, which is why she left her bike at the school, she expected shed be returning for it, therefore the phone call thing has merit .
 
One more thing I see the term "Grooming" being used in a few posts

"Grooming" in the case of sexual exploitation of a child , is a term used to indicate modification for long term behavior, usually used by pedophiles, who do so because they want to engage in a psudo -relationship over a long period of time. They relate to the victim, they spend time with the victim, they buy the victim things, they get the victim used to these bahaviors, before engaging in seual contact with them

Classic grooming behavior would be something like the Jerry Sandusky /Penn State caase

This isnt a case of "grooming" in the classical sense, this is more of a ruse .
 
One more thing I see the term "Grooming" being used in a few posts

"Grooming" in the case of sexual exploitation of a child , is a term used to indicate modification for long term behavior, usually used by pedophiles, who do so because they want to engage in a psudo -relationship over a long period of time. They relate to the victim, they spend time with the victim, they buy the victim things, they get the victim used to these bahaviors, before engaging in seual contact with them

Classic grooming behavior would be something like the Jerry Sandusky /Penn State caase

This isnt a case of "grooming" in the classical sense, this is more of a ruse .

I agree to me it more of a ruse and this is why to me the killer enjoyed the ruse and planning of the crime. I believe it was someone who had killed many times before and perhaps had snatched children directly off the street on other occasions but chose to commit this crime in this particular way because he enjoyed doing so.
 
I agree to me it more of a ruse and this is why to me the killer enjoyed the ruse and planning of the crime. I believe it was someone who had killed many times before and perhaps had snatched children directly off the street on other occasions but chose to commit this crime in this particular way because he enjoyed doing so.

I repect your opinion, but I have to differ with you on your points above.
 
I repect your opinion, but I have to differ with you on your points above.

That's fine we all have our opinions but I will finish off by saying I have in mind a good suspect in this case who fits my points above. Before anyone asks I have informed LE of who I think did it. But thank you for the interesting points. I will leave it at that for now.
 
That's fine we all have our opinions but I will finish off by saying I have in mind a good suspect in this case who fits my points above. Before anyone asks I have informed LE of who I think did it. But thank you for the interesting points. I will leave it at that for now.

Glad you shared your suspicions with LE, I wish more would
 
Glad you shared your suspicions with LE, I wish more would

I see you are LE so it is your job to catch monsters like the person who killed Amy. As I say I think I know who killed Amy and wish I could have stopped it. Good luck and hopefully he will be caught soon.
 
I think a geographical killer - so someone that knows an area, but will not kill on her/his own turf. However, the perpetrator would have lived within proximity and would have known the area in and out.

I think the intention was rape and murder. Has anyone ever asked why she left her bike at the school rather than taking it to the shopping center with her or home first?

As her body was in advanced stages of decomposition and exposed to different weather conditions I tend to think that whatever DNA they got from her would have been compromised and therefore difficult to determine certain facts. However, I read somewhere that there was food still inside her stomach, so she would have been murdered soon after the abduction.

I think it was a massive mistake on the BVPD's part to not have shown the curtain before 2016. Huge error. It could have possibly put a dent in the case.

It is really hard to work out if he (the killer) was new to killing or a seasoned one as we are not privy to a lot of details, but the fact that he has taken the time to dress her even with her underwear inside out means he actually "cared" and in his own way was giving her some "dignity" in death. It also means he spent some time with her, but it does not mean days or weeks. Even though the curtain was located elsewhere not too far from the body it was likely used to wrap or cover it not only to hide the fact but also possibly because he did not want to see his handy work. Also, it gives a sense of dignity to the victim as well when covered up. He probably knew her more than she knew him.

I think I am leaning towards someone seasoned and I do not think it was more than one man.

I feel he may have done it before and comes across a bit more as an organized killer more than disorganized because she was killed elsewhere, redressed, covered or wrapped and placed in a different location not too far from the road. He wanted her to be found.

The manner in which she died is a tad interesting as well because he could have suffocated or strangled her, but instead used blunt trauma to the head and stabbed the side of her neck. So, it kind of makes it more "personal".

He obviously would have been someone that suffered from rage and anger issues.

It is almost 30 years and this case is long overdue in being solved. Closure is needed because there is a little 10-year-old girl that deserves justice, a mother that died as she never got over the loss of that child, and a family that was destroyed because some perverted predator decided to abduct and murder one of its family members.
 
There is DNA but the Police Chief says it is not the kind that can be checked against a data base. This would be consistent with Renner’s claim that they have three hairs that were stuck to some tape found on the body. Hair (that do not have root material attached) have Mitochondrial DNA that can not be use against CODIS but it can rule someone in or out.


Because Mitochondrial DNA is passed down through the female line, it it not unique to one person the way familial DNA is but it is extremely unlikely that two random people in a large Metro area, like Cleveland, would be a match. If this schoolteacher was a Mitochondrial DNA match along with the circumstantial evidence, a conviction should be a slam dunk. Has he been ruled out?


Realistically, if they do have Mitochondrial DNA, they should be prioritizing people of interest and collecting cheek swabs.
 
I think a geographical killer - so someone that knows an area, but will not kill on her/his own turf. However, the perpetrator would have lived within proximity and would have known the area in and out.

I think the intention was rape and murder. Has anyone ever asked why she left her bike at the school rather than taking it to the shopping center with her or home first?

As her body was in advanced stages of decomposition and exposed to different weather conditions I tend to think that whatever DNA they got from her would have been compromised and therefore difficult to determine certain facts. However, I read somewhere that there was food still inside her stomach, so she would have been murdered soon after the abduction.

I think it was a massive mistake on the BVPD's part to not have shown the curtain before 2016. Huge error. It could have possibly put a dent in the case.

It is really hard to work out if he (the killer) was new to killing or a seasoned one as we are not privy to a lot of details, but the fact that he has taken the time to dress her even with her underwear inside out means he actually "cared" and in his own way was giving her some "dignity" in death. It also means he spent some time with her, but it does not mean days or weeks. Even though the curtain was located elsewhere not too far from the body it was likely used to wrap or cover it not only to hide the fact but also possibly because he did not want to see his handy work. Also, it gives a sense of dignity to the victim as well when covered up. He probably knew her more than she knew him.

I think I am leaning towards someone seasoned and I do not think it was more than one man.

I feel he may have done it before and comes across a bit more as an organized killer more than disorganized because she was killed elsewhere, redressed, covered or wrapped and placed in a different location not too far from the road. He wanted her to be found.

The manner in which she died is a tad interesting as well because he could have suffocated or strangled her, but instead used blunt trauma to the head and stabbed the side of her neck. So, it kind of makes it more "personal".

He obviously would have been someone that suffered from rage and anger issues.

It is almost 30 years and this case is long overdue in being solved. Closure is needed because there is a little 10-year-old girl that deserves justice, a mother that died as she never got over the loss of that child, and a family that was destroyed because some perverted predator decided to abduct and murder one of its family members.

IIRCC, she was kidnapped in October and found in February.
 
Good to see so many informative posts on this thread. I agree with Renner on at least one of his statements in the recent docu that this case is one that really takes a hold on you and won't let go. He usually digs up good information but I personally doubt that the ex teacher he suspects killed Amy, and I'm uncomfortable with journalists naming/connecting persons publicly with such a heinous crime when LE have never named him as a suspect. Also off the top of my head I cannot think of any teacher that has been convicted of a paedophile murder.

I think the killer of Amy probably fits the typical profile fairly well, semi-skilled rather than a professional, but clearly someone capable of planning, patience and organization, maybe someone good at fixing mechanical things, someone out and about mending phone connections, or landscaping work, watching children go by to and from their schools. Or even in their schools, I'm sure LE looked hard at any maintenance companies that were employed in or around the schools these girls attended. I would have looked at the photocopy repair guys, were any IT or security systems being put into these schools at the time? I think Renner comments somewhere that the girls contacted looked similar so I think the perp probably spotted them first and then stalked them, finding out their routines and about their families.

I agree absolutely that detailed analysis of what was said by the perp in the phone calls, how he interacted with the child, what he knew about them, his vocabulary, his accent should yield a lot of information. Maybe a lot more is known about that and is being withheld by LE. It frustrates me that in some cases (not in Amy's case AFAIK), information given by children is discounted whereas I think they are often sharper than adults.

The mitochondrial DNA may prove very valuable I hope. Once again the perp got lucky that Amy was not discovered in time to get a full profile, also no-one seems to have seen the two in or by a vehicle which is often of key importance in child abductions. And no CCTV even at that time, wouldn't there have been a few cameras in that shopping centre?
Maybe, just maybe, as the cold cases with full DNA profiles get solved, they will lead to a break in this case. Maybe the killer wasn't as lucky with another victim. Or is it possible to run mitochondrial DNA comparisons from profiles of known child rapists/murderers? The young man investigated by police who resembled the suspect and worked with the group of supporters who later committed suicide by a brutal method was new info to me in the docu, I wonder if he has been excluded?

Renner has come out publicly stating that the Mihaljevic case will be the next infamous case to break and Dr Colleen Fitzpatrick is working with Bay Village http://www.cleveland19.com/2018/11/...y-closing-amy-mihaljevics-killer-through-dna/ so there is hope that in time, DNA technology will progress even further.

The recent docu is also worth watching for the very sad and touching memories of Amy and her mother's friends so many years on which shows how fondly they are remembered. And for police officer Spaetzel who is now Bay Village Chief of Police who must be haunted but motivated by the fact that he gave an address about safety for children at Amy's school. It really strikes me how the killer put so much effort and thought into manoeuvring around all the red flags children are taught, works with mom so not a stranger, not asking you to get in a car or go to a lonely place, giving a "good reason" for secrecy. So calculating.
Hoping to catch up on the podcasts too, in such a sad case it is great to see so many people not giving up.
 
I realize this post is really old and there hasn’t been any updates in a long time however I’m in the middle of an ID program about it. I’m sure that I’m not bring up anything new or hasn’t already been looked into but I had a few questions? I understand the caller used the ruse of buying a gift for her mother to congratulate her on a recent promotion to lure her to the mall. Do I understand correctly that the mother really did in fact receive a promotion? If so, then I don’t believe the caller was actually intending to lure out the other girls he placed calls to but instead was practicing to perfect the call to his intending target, Amy. I also believe his knowledge of the promotion could only be as a result of either being a co-worker or close family friend. Who, other than those closest to the mother would know of a promotion so recently given? I would hope that the police investigated coworkers with whom the mother worked or anyone the family felt would have known of the promotion. This is an elaborate ruse - not the typical “want a puppy? He’s in my car.” It leads me to believe that it was planned well in advance. I believe his careful planning is most likely the result of a previous failed kidnapping attempt. This certainly could not have been his first and only time doing this. He knew enough to draw Amy from her home, with a story that would entice many a child to take a risk they wouldn’t normally take. The ruse, the purchase of a congratulatory gift for her mother’s promotion contained an element of truth to it. That fact he hoped would put anyone asking Amy where she was going would give them the idea that she was going willingly with someone she knew and that knew her mother, knowing she was just recently promoted.
However, despite all this careful planning I do not believe that the murderer is above average intelligence. A monkey can learn anything with enough practice.
Anyways, does anyone know if the mothers coworkers or close family friends aware of the promotion were looked at? If any happened to leave the area shortly after? If any paid special attention to children or if the mother may have even had family photos on her desk? Was the family questioned about who knew of the promotion? Or anybody who Amy would have felt comfortable leaving the house to meet?
 
I realize this post is really old and there hasn’t been any updates in a long time however I’m in the middle of an ID program about it. I’m sure that I’m not bring up anything new or hasn’t already been looked into but I had a few questions? I understand the caller used the ruse of buying a gift for her mother to congratulate her on a recent promotion to lure her to the mall. Do I understand correctly that the mother really did in fact receive a promotion? If so, then I don’t believe the caller was actually intending to lure out the other girls he placed calls to but instead was practicing to perfect the call to his intending target, Amy. I also believe his knowledge of the promotion could only be as a result of either being a co-worker or close family friend. Who, other than those closest to the mother would know of a promotion so recently given? I would hope that the police investigated coworkers with whom the mother worked or anyone the family felt would have known of the promotion. This is an elaborate ruse - not the typical “want a puppy? He’s in my car.” It leads me to believe that it was planned well in advance. I believe his careful planning is most likely the result of a previous failed kidnapping attempt. This certainly could not have been his first and only time doing this. He knew enough to draw Amy from her home, with a story that would entice many a child to take a risk they wouldn’t normally take. The ruse, the purchase of a congratulatory gift for her mother’s promotion contained an element of truth to it. That fact he hoped would put anyone asking Amy where she was going would give them the idea that she was going willingly with someone she knew and that knew her mother, knowing she was just recently promoted.
However, despite all this careful planning I do not believe that the murderer is above average intelligence. A monkey can learn anything with enough practice.
Anyways, does anyone know if the mothers coworkers or close family friends aware of the promotion were looked at? If any happened to leave the area shortly after? If any paid special attention to children or if the mother may have even had family photos on her desk? Was the family questioned about who knew of the promotion? Or anybody who Amy would have felt comfortable leaving the house to meet?

I wondered that too about a co-worker. The Trading Times would of had telemarketers working there, and these people get very good/comfortable talking on the phone, and they can whip up little sales pitches, and be very persuasive. Not to mention they would be speaking to a lot of children while calling homes all day long.
 

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