Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #4 *ARREST*

[MsMiniSleuth]

Few early morning thoughts.

1. The sister saying he offered lift, keyed in sat nav, and brushing LS off when she allegedly came on to him. But there is no mention of him actually taking her home? So could it be hypothised that he never did, that after she did that he told her to get out? Not saying I believe any of sister's story, just looking at another angle.

2. The guy from Wellesley Avenue who was charged in the other case. Is he Polish? Might he have known PR?

3. It had been mooted on here before the possibility of PR and LS having known each other before. Maybe not 'known' in the literal sense, but given these charges last night, could she have been someone else he had been stalking?

 

[Elainera]

His crimes in Hull likely started in 2017 because that's when they moved there. A neighbor said he thought they moved there about a year ago.

Will be interesting to see if more charges are added from his previous location.

He moved over there in 2014 so he was 19 or 20 years old. Not a lot of time to get a record in Poland.

His mom should stop answering the phone. He obviously seems to be a creep but journalists are exploiting a distraught foreign woman. Gross

Do we know where he lived before moving to Hull? It was mentioned in one of the previous threads that he was not happy in the UK at first, but was feeling better once he married.

Totally agree, it would surely be of interest to look at the same or similar offenses to the ones he's charged with now in the neighbourhoods he lived at previously (2014-2017), single or married, but I could imagine him being more "active" when he was still single. I'm sure LE are already working with PD's from those locations.

 

[Decemberstars]

Not unusual at all, it’s very much a cycle city and I wouldn’t find it unusual to see a cyclist at midnight. Could even be a deliveroo cyclist delivering takeaway food.

That maybe depends where you live, near me there are cyclists in all weathers and at all hours as it's a common way to commute to and from work, no idea if it's unusual in Hull though

 

[Al Ka]

Problem we have in black and white sense is.

He hasn't been charged with any offence regarding Libby. This is ultimately telling us the police have nothing to charge him with this offence, therefore we must also follow that and deem him innocent regarding Libby.

The other fresh charges against him as we now know, are nothing related to Libby at all. No other mention of the guy being linked or related to Libby's disappearance either.

We have to tread very carefully here folks, lets face it.

This guy could actually be completely innocent regarding Libby being missing, I mean COULD be. Up to now, and as far as the police are concerned, he is.!

Despite this, he has been charged with a handful of other offences which although on the face of it, aren't that serious in relation to abduction or murder etc, still need investigating.

After all our 'forensic' work, we are left with nothing to work regarding the Libby disappearance, same for the police.

Our focus should be, where is Libby. This girl is 4 months older than my own daughter and personally I am very upset not knowing what has happened to Libby. I have good friends In Hull who say the same.

I am still trying to catch up but I am absolutely flabbergasted coming here and seeing these new developments as somewhere down deep I hoped he might be innocent.

Hitthenick, you are very correct in everyting you are saying and thank you for expressing everything so eloquently. They have slapped him with anything and everything they could so they keep him in jail while they investigate as it seems they do not have much or not yet.

I am really curious if they brought this charges just now due to recent interviews with people who know him, or from his confession, or if they had it on logs in the past. ITV did confirm that he is cooperating with police.

Charges - outraging public decency is probably public intoxication. I definitely want to read more about voyeurism and burglary charges... Those are somewhat more serious. Where did they came from suddently? I doubt police ignored them in past, if they knew...

My mind is still divided from little facts we know so far. Sighting of his car near by the street where he lives 10 min after he picked up Libby could also point to scenario that he did drop her somewhere where she wanted and then was on the way home. Otherwise, could he commit murder and hide her body and be on his way home, all within 10 min?

Then those other sexual attacks in the area, in December and even now when place is swarming with police everywhere makes me really wonder if real culprit is still out there. It would not be the first time.

Let's see how it all develops, once we know more details and facts. My opinions might change after I catch up with all. I have missed all that flasher news and discussion as well. From what I read so far I am unsure if that is assumption here that he was flasher or the fact?

Hopefully someone will talk and Libby will be found soon.

 

[audge86]

Do we know where he lived before moving to Hull? It was mentioned in one of the previous threads that he was not happy in the UK at first, but was feeling better once he married. Totally agree, it would surely be of interest to look at the same or similar offenses to the ones he's charged with now in the neighbourhoods he lived at previously (2014-2017), single or married, but I could imagine him being more "active" when he was still single. I'm sure LE are already working with PD's from those locations.

Not sure where he lived.

He wasn't single for long. His Instagram shows that he started dating his wife in December of 2014. Baby summer of 2016. Married June of 2018 and baby October of 2018.

His Instagram is private with 0 posts. Maybe it was wiped? But it confirms that timeline at least.

I would assume that he previously lived closer to work near Malton. Maybe Hull is more family friendly so they moved after having kids? Locals can tell me if that's an accurate statement or not but the timing would make sense. Or maybe Hull is more affordable? They'd need more space

 

[audge86]

My mind is still divided from little facts we know so far. Sighting of his car near by the street where he lives 10 min after he picked up Libby could also point to scenario that he did drop her somewhere where she wanted and then was on the way home. Otherwise, could he commit murder and hide her body and be on his way home, all within 10 min?

The car seen 10 min later is more than likely not the same as the one in the CCTV showing a man smoking. If you look at the wheels, the rims aren't even the same colour. It's just a different silver car, it seems.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

D

 

[Steleheart]

Personal Twitter/ SM accounts are not allowed to be linked/discussed or referenced. Well covered in the rules linked in my sig and in this thread in post #4&5.

 

[sf18]

Few early morning thoughts.

1. The sister saying he offered lift, keyed in sat nav, and brushing LS off when she allegedly came on to him. But there is no mention of him actually taking her home? So could it be hypothised that he never did, that after she did that he told her to get out? Not saying I believe any of sister's story, just looking at another angle.

2. The guy from Wellesley Avenue who was charged in the other case. Is he Polish? Might he have known PR?

3. It had been mooted on here before the possibility of PR and LS having known each other before. Maybe not 'known' in the literal sense, but given these charges last night, could she have been someone else he had been stalking?

Been thinking number 3 myself could have been stalking her for a while even and then one day got his chance

 

[Amonet]

I am still trying to catch up but I am absolutely flabbergasted coming here and seeing these new developments as somewhere down deep I hoped he might be innocent.

Hitthenick, you are very correct in everyting you are saying and thank you for expressing everything so eloquently. They have slapped him with anything and everything they could so they keep him in jail while they investigate as it seems they do not have much or not yet.

I am really curious if they brought this charges just now due to recent interviews with people who know him, or from his confession, or if they had it on logs in the past. ITV did confirm that he is cooperating with police.

Charges - outraging public decency is probably public intoxication. I definitely want to read more about voyeurism and burglary charges... Those are somewhat more serious. Where did they came from suddently? I doubt police ignored them in past, if they knew...

My mind is still divided from little facts we know so far. Sighting of his car near by the street where he lives 10 min after he picked up Libby could also point to scenario that he did drop her somewhere where she wanted and then was on the way home. Otherwise, could he commit murder and hide her body and be on his way home, all within 10 min?

Then those other sexual attacks in the area, in December and even now when place is swarming with police everywhere makes me really wonder if real culprit is still out there. It would not be the first time.

Let's see how it all develops, once we know more details and facts. My opinions might change after I catch up with all. I have missed all that flasher news and discussion as well. From what I read so far I am unsure if that is assumption here that he was flasher or the fact?

Hopefully someone will talk and Libby will be found soon.

I believe the "outraging public decency" charge is for flashing. I think it can also be brought for things like dogging, but in his case it appears to be for flashing.

I also think Hull may have more than one active sex attacker (covering all the various types of thing from flashing to rape at this time. If PR has attacked Libby, and he was still doing voyeurism and flashing only a month ago, I think this might have been his first foray into something more interactive. And there was a report of something the night after Libby went missing...I think it would be unusual for someone to go out the following night looking to do a similar activity....I think the adrenalin would be too high that soon. There is usually a cooling off period for crimes like this.

 

[whitelilac]

Few early morning thoughts.

1. The sister saying he offered lift, keyed in sat nav, and brushing LS off when she allegedly came on to him. But there is no mention of him actually taking her home? So could it be hypothised that he never did, that after she did that he told her to get out? Not saying I believe any of sister's story, just looking at another angle.

2. The guy from Wellesley Avenue who was charged in the other case. Is he Polish? Might he have known PR?

3. It had been mooted on here before the possibility of PR and LS having known each other before. Maybe not 'known' in the literal sense, but given these charges last night, could she have been someone else he had been stalking?

#2....the guy who was charged is a 32 year old Romanian, not Polish. I doubt they knew each other, but who knows?

 

[Elainera]

Long and comprehensive article from today covering all aspects of the investigation since Libby disappeared:

Missing for 11 days: Libby Squire has united Hull in hope and in heartbreak

 

[LucyRocket]

I am still trying to catch up but I am absolutely flabbergasted coming here and seeing these new developments as somewhere down deep I hoped he might be innocent.

Hitthenick, you are very correct in everyting you are saying and thank you for expressing everything so eloquently. They have slapped him with anything and everything they could so they keep him in jail while they investigate as it seems they do not have much or not yet.

I am really curious if they brought this charges just now due to recent interviews with people who know him, or from his confession, or if they had it on logs in the past. ITV did confirm that he is cooperating with police.

Charges - outraging public decency is probably public intoxication. I definitely want to read more about voyeurism and burglary charges... Those are somewhat more serious. Where did they came from suddently? I doubt police ignored them in past, if they knew...

My mind is still divided from little facts we know so far. Sighting of his car near by the street where he lives 10 min after he picked up Libby could also point to scenario that he did drop her somewhere where she wanted and then was on the way home. Otherwise, could he commit murder and hide her body and be on his way home, all within 10 min?

Then those other sexual attacks in the area, in December and even now when place is swarming with police everywhere makes me really wonder if real culprit is still out there. It would not be the first time.

Let's see how it all develops, once we know more details and facts. My opinions might change after I catch up with all. I have missed all that flasher news and discussion as well. From what I read so far I am unsure if that is assumption here that he was flasher or the fact?

Hopefully someone will talk and Libby will be found soon.

Intoxication doesn't usually come under public decency. That would usually be a drunk and/or disorderly behaviour. Even urinating in a public place isn't an outrage of public decency under the law. It is just indecent behaviour for which one would usually get an on- the- spot penalty notice. Outraging public decency usually covers acts of a sexual nature, extreme lewd behaviour, such as exposing oneself or engaging in a sexual act in public view

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

#2....the guy who was charged is a 32 year old Romanian, not Polish. I doubt they knew each other, but who knows?

Ah, okay. But still, wonder if they maybe frequented the same shops that specialise in foods from that part of Europe, or perhaps local cafes where those of same/similar (not sure how different Polish is to Romanian!) language/culture might congregate ...?

 

[Joolz1975]

Taken me all night to get caught up, whew! Didn't see the unrelated charges coming but good move, keeps him in prison and out of trouble while they find more evidence.

At first I'd wondered if they'd got the right guy as he seemed pretty normal, but first the "she made a move on him" story from the family, and now these charges... yeah, I'd now be very surprised if he was NOT responsible. Put it this way, he'd have to be the most unlucky guy on earth, to have been a good samaritan and offer a lift to a drunk girl, who then flung herself at him and ran off, only to then disappear completely... and THEN to be identified as a flasher/voyeur in addition! It's not impossible that he isn't responsible for all of that, so I'll keep a slightly open mind, but there's quite a bit pointing towards him now.

I'm a bit confused about the spider web video though; with the Daily Mail (I think?) quote that it didn't show the same person as was being interviewed. I'm no good at identifying bits of partially obscured video so really can't tell what's going on there anyway (I've read the interpretations on here as a general guide but can't see any of it myself, it's just a blurry movement), but if it's not PR, then why was it released? For that matter, if it IS him, I wonder what purpose it served, given they already had him in for questioning by then. Assuming it's not just the media releasing it without police input, I guess (would they do that, when it's potential evidence)? Maybe they want to find the other car and cyclist as potential witnesses, but I don't recall seeing any direct appeals to them.

My interpretation of the cctv is the Sun got hold of it the same day as the police and wanted to release it.

The police asked them to hang fire till they had PR in custody in case he did a runner.

The Sun and the Police have come to an agreement that lets them release a very small collection of snippets from much longer footage in an effort to keep the story in the media.

The police will want to keep the media on side they need all the help they can get.

I think the cctv from the bench will be more telling as they will see exactly who approached Libby.

 

[Al Ka]

Little bit off topic but I want to Welcome all newcomers to Websleuths and also Hull residents who joined recently.

Just a reminder that there is also another lady who disappeared in Hull two years ago and her body is not found yet. Please, do keep her in mind too.

Her name is Renata Antczak, Polish national. There were two suspects from Hull, both I believe are now free due to not enough evidence.

Her thread - UK - UK - Renata Antczak, 49, Hull, East Yorkshire, 25 April 2017

You can find other links to UK old and new cases here - United Kingdom Crime Cases - Links to cases on Websleuths *No Discussion*

 

[Kolumbo]

the drain is about 6ft deep or something like that - its full of tree roots and weeds etc - its for drainage during floods - its a little distance to the river hull

Despite the weed and various entanglements, I think a body would be more likely to emerge from the drain than the river hull. Where the drain enters the river near the Whalebone pub in the Wincolmlee area, there is a metal filtration grate up that something the size of a body would never get through - and it's easily viewable from the road and pavements around there.
Sadly, if it were snagged elsewhere in the drain it's potentially less apt to be seen for a long time, if ever, unless specifically searched for because there are fewer stretches where you can walk alongside it compared with the River Hull itself.
Meanwhile though, the river Hull is tidal and sometimes quite fast flowing. Anything going in, even if initially snagged on reeds and so on, would be pulled free and washed out quickly into the huge Humber Estuary and from there into the North Sea. It would have more chance of being spotted on the way to the estuary, but depending on how fast it moves and the time of day, once it's passed by unnoticed, the odds of a discovery plummet massively.
I do not know which would be "best" from a discovery point of view then.

 

[Chester]

I am still trying to catch up but I am absolutely flabbergasted coming here and seeing these new developments as somewhere down deep I hoped he might be innocent.

Hitthenick, you are very correct in everyting you are saying and thank you for expressing everything so eloquently. They have slapped him with anything and everything they could so they keep him in jail while they investigate as it seems they do not have much or not yet.

I am really curious if they brought this charges just now due to recent interviews with people who know him, or from his confession, or if they had it on logs in the past. ITV did confirm that he is cooperating with police.

Charges - outraging public decency is probably public intoxication. I definitely want to read more about voyeurism and burglary charges... Those are somewhat more serious. Where did they came from suddently? I doubt police ignored them in past, if they knew...

My mind is still divided from little facts we know so far. Sighting of his car near by the street where he lives 10 min after he picked up Libby could also point to scenario that he did drop her somewhere where she wanted and then was on the way home. Otherwise, could he commit murder and hide her body and be on his way home, all within 10 min?

Then those other sexual attacks in the area, in December and even now when place is swarming with police everywhere makes me really wonder if real culprit is still out there. It would not be the first time.

Let's see how it all develops, once we know more details and facts. My opinions might change after I catch up with all. I have missed all that flasher news and discussion as well. From what I read so far I am unsure if that is assumption here that he was flasher or the fact?

Hopefully someone will talk and Libby will be found soon.

Outraging public decency is certainly not public intoxication.

It's a rarely used piece of common law used to punish the performance of a lewd, disgusting or obscene act in a public place in the presence of two or more people.

This is more than just flashing.

It is most likely public masturbation.

 

[Elainera]

Despite the weed and various entanglements, I think a body would be more likely to emerge from the drain than the river hull. Where the drain enters the river near the Whalebone pub in the Wincolmlee area, there is a metal filtration grate up that something the size of a body would never get through - and it's easily viewable from the road and pavements around there.
Sadly, if it were snagged elsewhere in the drain it's potentially less apt to be seen for a long time, if ever, unless specifically searched for because there are fewer stretches where you can walk alongside it compared with the River Hull itself.
Meanwhile though, the river Hull is tidal and sometimes quite fast flowing. Anything going in, even if initially snagged on reeds and so on, would be pulled free and washed out quickly into the huge Humber Estuary and from there into the North Sea. It would have more chance of being spotted on the way to the estuary, but depending on how fast it moves and the time of day, once it's passed by unnoticed, the odds of a discovery plummet massively.
I do not know which would be "best" from a discovery point of view then.

Thank you Kolumbo for sharing your local knowledge. So I take it there's a chance she might never be found.

 

[molly67]

Little bit off topic but I want to Welcome all newcomers to Websleuths and also Hull residents who joined recently.

Just a reminder that there is also another lady who disappeared in Hull two years ago and her body is not found yet. Please, do keep her in mind too.

Her name is Renata Antczak, Polish national. There were two suspects from Hull, both I believe are now free due to not enough evidence.

Her thread - UK - UK - Renata Antczak, 49, Hull, East Yorkshire, 25 April 2017

You can find other links to UK old and new cases here - United Kingdom Crime Cases - Links to cases on Websleuths *No Discussion*

Thanks Al Ka fpr this re Renata Antczak

Interesting one - I had a quick look through - what was the general consensus - if you remember ?